Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    The public display of Greenspan/PI team versus TPS sort of reminds me of a good guy/bad guy scenario. I’m not at all convinced they’re as adversarial as it might appear. However it serves an excellent justification to highlight the case and announce the $10 million reward, which all parties may have had good reason to believe is necessary.

    "Mr. Greenspan has the same objective as we do, to solve this double homicide," Saunders said at a news conference held shortly after Greenspan's announcement.“
    Family offers $10M reward for information leading to arrest in Sherman deaths
     


  2. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    This is a very informative article about the difficulty of relying on DNA to solve a crime. Greenspan, considering he’s a defence attourney, is fully aware of that.

    Framed for Murder By His Own DNA
     
  3. WINDSOR

    WINDSOR Well-Known Member

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    Therefore the fact that this late day elimination of DNA was never prioritized indicates LE was never in the position of shrugging their shoulders “no idea, who did this?” It could also indicate they are in the final stages of concluding the investigation, prior to charges being laid.

    MistyWaters, I think you and several others who believe this are on to something significant. Quite possibly the TPS have a serious POI, and now are gathering evidence prior to laying charges. This would coincide with the latest flurry of warrant requests, including one for outside Canada. They now have the Greenspan evidence too and this just might reinforce their evidence.
     
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  4. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Wondering if BS also attended the screening and after party for the documentary about Bernie Madoff? speculation.
    Party photos of the week
    [​IMG]
    Roz Davidson (left) and Honey Sherman at the Chasing Madoff after party
    Central Image Agency Inc./Central Image Agency Inc.
     
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  5. andreww

    andreww Former Member

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    I'm not saying they need to sweep the house for DNA, that is ludicrous, but certainly if this crime scene was staged, there would be at least some DNA of the perp on the bodies or their clothing. How can you begin to know if that DNA is relevant if you haven't eliminated those present as possible sources?

    I'll answer that for you, you can't.
     
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  6. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    My original reply, how would you expect LE to determine every person who had ever been in the Sherman home by elimination of DNA? Run an ad in the paper, drop by ASAP, give us your DNA to eliminate you as a suspect? How can LE know who to eliminate just by that process alone or tell the difference between a legitimate reason to have been in the home or not? You’ve mentioned JBR several times and one theory about that case is the DNA from her under garments might’ve originated from the Asian manufacturer.

    If you read the article I linked above, touch and transfer DNA are not always present nor reliable. Surely any killer is well aware that it’s not prudent to sneeze or bleed all over the body of a victim? Movies and fiction books have led the public to believe solving a homicide only requires an immediate search for something almost magical to solve the crime referred to as DNA because every unprofessional murderer always leaves their identity behind and voila the crime is solved - but that’s just not true.
     
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  7. andreww

    andreww Former Member

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    Why would they care? Chief Saunders approval ratings are dropping steadily over the past year, he doesn't need more bad press, and I guarantee he cares very much.

    As for the family, I actually feel they believe what they are saying. I do feel the went to Greenspan and said "We do not feel our father killed our mother and then himself. We want you to prove that". So Greenspan's crew went looking for pieces of evidence to simply contradict the M/S theory and I doubt whether they were seriously looking for evidence that pointed towards the M/S theory, and he certainly didn't present anything to his clients to suggest that. So If the family believes they were murdered, and if their biased legal team has given them evidence to support that, why wouldn't they push police to find the killer?

    But I still feel quite confident that we will hear nothing more from police other than what we've already heard, "the investigation is ongoing, no comment."
     
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  8. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Chasing Madoff was one of 114 films featured at the 19th annual Jewish Film Festival in 2011. So it appears to be a high society Jewish event with its supporters prominent at the gala awards party that always follows afterward, regardless of which films win awards. Therefore I don’t think it’d be significant if either or both the Shermans were in attendance, possibly every year.
    19th Toronto Jewish Film Festival - 2011 - Jewish Film Festivals
     
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  9. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Could you please identify the TPS official source who determined a M/S had occurred? You continue to repeat that as if it’s a fact.

    To the contrary, TPS claims it was never more than one of three possible theories being investigated. If you require any links to support that statement, I’d be happy to oblige.

    The families initial statement, notice the carefully worded reference to “rumours” and “the media” and it’s “(anonymous) police sources” are mentioned, but not TPS directly.

    Our parents shared an enthusiasm for life and commitment to their family and community totally inconsistent with the rumors regrettably circulated in the media as to the circumstances surrounding their deaths.

    We are shocked and think it's irresponsible that police sources have reportedly advised the media of a theory which neither their family, their friends nor their colleagues believe to be true.

    We urge the Toronto Police Service to conduct a thorough, intensive and objective criminal investigation, and urge the media to refrain from further reporting as to the cause of these tragic deaths until the investigation is completed.”

    Statement from the Family of Barry and Honey Sherman
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2018
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  10. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Getting a key and floor plans surreptitiously from a real estate agent ( approx @ 1:50), in order to stage the bizarre swimming pool death of a billionaire .... fwiw, imo, speculation.
    Mechanic Collection
    "A film series centered on Arthur Bishop the 'mechanic' - an elite assassin with a strict code and unique talent for cleanly eliminating targets; making his hits look like accidents, suicides or the acts of petty criminals. It's a job that requires professional perfection and total detachment, and Bishop is the best in the business".
     
  11. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    RSBM
    I'm sure he does *care* about his image and that of his police service, however I'm asking why would he care if being competent and carefully collecting evidence reaches a conclusion that some people don't like? To think that instead of that, he would rather break the TPS' budget in a scheme to pretend to look for a killer when there really wasn't anyone to find, and then declare it a double homicide to make him and his force look good to only a handful of people, is rather ludicrous, wouldn't one think? Things like that tend to have an annoying way of coming back to bite one in the butt at some point, and would be very risky, conceivably getting him fired if truth came crashing down around him, which it very well could. He doesn't need bad press, he needs to dot all of his i's and cross all of his t's on this one, for *sure*, but he definitely doesn't need to be mired in deceit and corruption. He's got some very well-read and highly respected media watching him, in addition to the family's team of experts, who I'm sure would be more than happy to break open a story like that. Common sense suggests that perhaps better oversight and management of his staff might be more prudent than digging a bottomless pit for himself with no way out, if he doesn't want bad press. First steps might include basic seminars for his staff on wording, confidentiality, speaking to media, and the like. imo.
     
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  12. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    I noticed in this realtor photo what appears to be sensors on the doors. Anyone disagree? Also, I don't see much in the way of window coverings... kind of eerie if someone was actually stalking them. Also, noticing how close the neighbour's home is.
     

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  13. hudunit

    hudunit Active Member

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    Where was it determined that the belt did not kill Barry?I am sure that is the case with Honey and the belt was a coverup,but not sure about Barry.
     
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  14. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Other than the cause and manner of death, that both died by ligature neck compression, a double homicide, nothing more has been officially released because complete autopsy results are not released to the general public (or the media).

    Withholding information such as this is very routine because it prevents false confessions, false tips and safeguards the integrity of the ongoing investigation. The general public generally only learns the details after charges are laid and cases go to trial.
     
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  15. hudunit

    hudunit Active Member

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    I found it in Chiasson's report that police thought the belts did not kill them.
     
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  16. casesensitive

    casesensitive Well-Known Member

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    The private team allege that the belts didn't kill them. Police have never mentioned that afaik.
     
  17. JDG

    JDG Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the TJFF is a 'high society event' at all. Plenty of non Jewish film buffs, like ourselves, go to all of the film festivals in TO and we have plenty of them.

    We have been to them many times and its pretty much a mixed crowd, even at premieres and after parties.
     
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  18. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, what I was getting at that prominent Jewish supporters of Jewish causes would presumably attend as the Film Festival as it was also sponsored by them. We know Honey was very active in promoting Jewish endeavours. I agree, I doubt all the films are directly focused on the topic of Jews nor is the public event limited to Jewish attendance. But as either or both were known to be very prominent in the Jewish social scene, I think think her attendance at a Jewish Film Awards Gala would be quite typical of the types of events involved.
     
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  19. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Chiasson didn’t release his autopsy report to the media either. “A source” spoke to the media but neither Greenspan nor Chiasson have directly confirmed if the information is true or not.

    It’s also possible the same belts were used to strangle the victims and then later to attach the bodies to the railings. If so, the placement of strangulation ligature marks and internal neck injuries may not align with suicide and body positioning, and so that’s how homicide was determined. We just don’t know but it’ll certainly become key evidence presented by the prosecution if/when a trial occurs. No doubt a possible defence strategy could be to argue not guilty, a m/s occurred.

    Regardless, by everything I’ve read, I don’t think it’s easy to murder a person (or two) by strangulation, then try to make it appear to “look” like a suicide without medical experts and pathologists being able to recognize the difference.

    This is also a reason it’d be downright impossible for police officers arriving on the scene to have determined whether murder or suicide occurred, only by visual observation.
     
  20. hudunit

    hudunit Active Member

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    It seems to me that if Barry was trying to divert suspicion on someone else he would have made it look like there were intruders in the house.One the other hand if intruders were in the house and they wanted to divert suspicion to Barry,they would make it look like no one had been there.
     
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