Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    ROFLOL! Andreww, you are too funny. Thanks for the laugh, seriously.
     
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  2. Arnie M

    Arnie M Well-Known Member

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    Unless I missed something .... there was nothing new in the Bloomberg article ... other than the mention that Barry's legs (ankles) were crossed
     
  3. Arnie M

    Arnie M Well-Known Member

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    Anyone here believe Greenspan's retired detectives are better than modern TPS detectives?

    I sure dont
     
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  4. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Better? Nope, can’t say that because people cannot hire modern TPS detectives but they can and do hire experienced private investigators.

    Sherlock Holmes, arguably the world's most famous fictional private detective.”
    Private investigator - Wikipedia
     
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  5. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe they're churning out the same quality of employees now, as they used to in the past?
     
  6. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    I think the policemen/women of yesteryear were better suited, in many ways, for the job.

    The retired detectives may well be better than some of the newer lot.
     
  7. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Bio on Tom Klatt, PI

    “Tom spent 19 years on the Toronto Police Service, where he was involved in every type of criminal investigation. One of the youngest officers ever to be promoted to the homicide squad, he was involved in more than 70 murder investigations. Tom was also an integral member of the Intelligence Bureau's most elite units and involved in some of Canada's most sensitive investigations, including organized crime groups and international narcotics syndicates.....”
    More -
    Tom Klatt | Toronto | Klatt Investigatons
     
  8. nuff

    nuff Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing inherent in either age or retirement that would make them less qualified, and they are not bound by the same legal investigative restrictions as serving police officers.
     
  9. andreww

    andreww Former Member

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    Well, look up when the last Greenspan news release was. Saturday papers. Coincidence I guess. Not!
     
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  10. andreww

    andreww Former Member

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    Does Klatt even have access to the evidence police collected? I highly doubt it.
     
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  11. andreww

    andreww Former Member

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    Hard to find newspaper daily numbers for Toronto, but this UK article pretty much tells the story...

    The result may not be much of a surprise to newspaper analysts, but the bald statistics - which involve UK and Irish sales in April - are still pretty revealing.

    They show that, in all but one case, the Saturday sales exceed those of weekday sales, some by a big margin.

    For example, the Daily Mail sold an average of 3,009,981 copies on Saturdays in April, but only 2,507,860 - a difference of 934,120 copies.

    The Sun sold 502,121 fewer on weekdays than on Saturdays while the difference at the Daily Mirror was 302,695 copies. The Daily Expressdifference totalled 116,610.

    The Daily Telegraph sold 760,956 on Saturdays, which was 241,637 more than its regular weekday sale.

    The Guardian Saturday sale was 377,268 as compared to the weekday total of 199,392, which is a significant difference.

    The Times sold 482,789 on Saturdays and 349,414 on weekdays, while The Independent's Saturday sale was 121,451 compared to 92,854 on weekdays.

    As for the Financial Times, it sold 113,887 on Saturdays and 88,357 on weekdays.


    So if you think that the fact that both Greenspan's releases were made just in time for the Saturday papers was just a coincidence, you are a lot more naive than I thought.
     
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  12. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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    If you had something to share with the public, would you choose to hold your press conference in conjunction with publishing on the highest readership day, or a different day? Just doh.
     
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  13. andreww

    andreww Former Member

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    What on earth does the public have to do with anything? Maybe, if they were truly interested in solving this thing, they should be siting down with TPS. People on this forum are delightful, they seem to believe anything that is fed to them.
     
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  14. Angleterre

    Angleterre Well-Known Member

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    What you have to remember is that those Detectives that were around prior to the mid 90’s ( when DNA became a tool to utilise to ID suspects ) they had to rely on good Detective work because other than fingerprints, there was not the proliferation of CCTV cameras available to give us clues like there are today along with DNA and other modern technology.
    Old school Detectives had to know how to speak to people and cultivate informants in order to get the information they required and they really had to work hard to solve a crime . Some of the investigative tools that were used back then, today’s Detectives wouldn’t even think to consider because they are much more reliant on gaining evidence from CCTV DNA et al
    However, I personally believe that because of the technological and forensic science advances, convictions nowadays are much less likely to be declared ‘unsafe’ because of the irrefutable evidence offered by the modern way of investigation .
    There’s good and bad in all but the best Detectives are the ones that are willing to consider all possibilities, discount none without proof to the contrary, work as a team bouncing ideas off of each other and know how to speak to and engage with the community that they serve. The rest, fingerprint, DNA, CCTV and other means of securing evidence in today’s times, are a bonus !
    I speak as a Detective of many years standing
     
  15. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    A private investigative team doesn’t need to have access to all the evidence to be effective. If there’s strong evidence at the crime scene, those types of murders require very little “investigation” in order to solve. In fact those are the types of murders that LE does best at solving.

    But private eyes, as they used to be known as, can be more effective than police officers in gathering tips and leads leading to viable suspects in complex murder cases. The family and other people closest to the Shermans might express vague suspicions, hunches or distrust of certain individuals to private investigators that LE might not take seriously. Sometimes people are reluctant to disclose much of anything to LE, maybe in fear of either becoming involved or personal repercussions as a result of ratting on someone. A PI team adds a layer of confidentiality between the informant and LE.

    A PI team becomes highly effective in investigating individuals. Gathering whatever important information they find, it’s turned over to police, not a lot different than a member of the public offering a tip. It wouldn’t be impossible to imagine LE and the PI team working closely together, especially when parallel investigations become focused on one or more individuals of mutual interest.
     
  16. andreww

    andreww Former Member

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    If we are going to compare old detectives to new detectives, lets not forget about the Paul Bernado debacle. He was reported to detectives by a battered girlfriend. Nothing. He was reported by a friend who realized he was a dead ringer for the police sketch. Nothing. And he had two detectives sit down with him in his living room in Port Dalhousie. Nothing. And this was probably the biggest case in the history of Southern Ontario! Not exactly inspiring confidence.
     
  17. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Excellent, you’ve written what were my exact thoughts.

    I agree 100% and thanks for sharing your insight!
     
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  18. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    How does a solved case and conviction of Bernado not inspire confidence? Neither similarity to a sketch or an interview is adequate evidence to support murder charges, yesterday or today. That is why complex cases involve time to dig deeply into. LE have no magical powers to determine who’s guilty, only because they’ve sat down in front of the person.
     
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  19. sceawian

    sceawian Well-Known Member

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    Toronto real estate agent reveals new details in killings of billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman
    Toronto real estate agent reveals new details in killings of billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman | CBC News

    "The bodies "were on the steps leading to the pool," he told CBC News.

    "What's with these rich people ... who does this?" he recalled thinking. He says neither he nor his clients decided to enter the pool area to take a closer look.
    The agent says he and his clients thought they had stumbled across some kind bizarre Halloween display or a joke.

    "Fake murders," is how he initially described it.

    They soon left the property, refusing to believe what they saw inside the multimillion-dollar home could actually be real.

    Not long after, it's believed the other agent called 911 to report the find.'
     
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  20. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    From your link as well:

    “Police will have more to say later today after Greenspan's news conference, Gray said.”
     
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