GENERIC HEADER NEWS MISSING PERSONS

Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by dotr, Dec 15, 2017.

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  1. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    “Autopsies perfomed on the couple found "the cause of death for both deceased was ligature neck compression," or strangulation with an object such as a rope, police said.”
    Billionaire pharma couple were strangled, case being treated as possible homicide, Toronto police say

    Reference to the medical definition of “ligature neck compression” can be found in various places on the web. Regardless of what ligature was used, by definition death was not caused through body weight (by belts attached to railing).

    BBM
    Strangulation is defined as asphyxia by closure of the blood vessels and/ or air passages of the neck as a result of external pressure on the neck.[2] It is subdivided into three main categories: hanging, ligature strangulation and manual strangulation. The distinction between these three entities is attributed to the cause of the external pressure on the neck — either a constricting band tightened by the gravitational weight of the body or part of the body (hanging); a constricting band tightened by a force other than the body weight (ligature strangulation); or an external pressure by hands, forearms or other limbs (manual strangulation).
    About strangulation and hanging: Language matters
     
  2. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

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    [sbm]

    I would like to know more about those belts. What brand? What size? Was one of them Barry's belt and the other the killer's (or Honey's)?
     
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  3. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Good questions, but other than them described as ‘leather belts’ officially by LE, we only have ‘sources’ (eg. Toronto Star sources) describing them as men’s leather belts, IIRC.

    I think there was speculation that one belt was BS’s belt, but nothing confirmed by LE.
     
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  4. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    One belt was from BS' trousers .... Both were MEN'S belts .... I will search a link for you. :)
    ETA:
    Barry and Honey, spouses of more than 40 years, were side-by-side on the floor, their necks tied with men’s leather belts to a metal railing, about three-and-a-half-feet high, that ran around one end of the pool.
    Their arms were drawn-back, held in place by coats pulled down below their shoulders. Both were facing away from the water and fully clothed, although one of the belts seemed to have been taken from Barry’s trousers. It was impossible to tell how long they’d been dead.
    The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2018
  5. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    That I don't understand at all ...........
     
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  6. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Why?
     
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  7. deugirtni

    deugirtni Well-Known Member

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  8. FromGermany

    FromGermany Well-Known Member

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    Pathology? Why wasn't the TOD detectable? The TV pathologists would have known. ;)
     
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  9. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    Probably couldn't pin point it to more than a span of time as opposed to exact time.

    Decomposition would have set in, warmish damp surroundings speeds up decomp. and everything would have been icky. Isn't that a medical term? ;)
     
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  10. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    LE may be keeping that knowledge confidential, or maybe it had something to do with the temperature of the pool room?
     
  11. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Had wondered if the perps expected everyone in the household would be away for the holidays and that there would not be a house showing for awhile?
    If so, were they counting on the" perfume of death " to permeate the entire house until the bodies were located like some kind of twisted and vindictive prank?
    imo, speculation.
     
  12. meanmaryjean

    meanmaryjean Verified RN (Pediatrics Specialty)

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    When this case first broke- I could never have imagined it would go unsolved for a year.

    Seriously
     
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  13. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    I can see it going two or more years, in part due to BS extremely complex business dealings that all have to be reviewed and checked out.

    Many murders take more than one year to solve.

    If they don't get the evidence correct, they'll never get a conviction.

    This is a crime that needs a conviction or three. IMO
     
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  14. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Maybe there’s no definite connection but I’ve always wondered about the timing of the murders as well. Dec 13th was a few days away from winter solstice when there’s the most hours of darkness (15 hrs dark, only 9 hrs daylight) and only 5 days away from Honey leaving for Florida, Dec 18th. Considering the pre-holiday season, its likely there were various social events the Shermans planned to attend or even host that upcoming weekend, Dec 15-17th. If the killer/s was aware of the housecleaning schedule, next due Dec 15th, the fateful evening of Dec 13th with light snow to cover entry and exit footprints imo represented a preplanned yet almost 11th hour opportunity to target both of them in their home. By mid January, it may have been sold.


    “.....Looking forward to getting together in Florida. I am coming south Monday, December 18 [to]Friday, January 12," she wrote in an e-mail to friends last Monday.

    "Barry is coming south for Monday December 25 & going home with me Jan. 12. Please let me know your dates south asap so i can place in my calendar … Looking forward to hearing back asap. Xoxo Honey."

    Police reveal cause of death as friends and family of Barry and Honey Sherman reeling
     
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  15. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Yes many murders, even those where an ex-partner is the prime suspect from the very beginning, take more than a year before charges are laid. And because of Canada’s recent legal ruling that criminal trials must conclude within 30 month, LE is no longer afforded the opportunity to continue gathering additional evidence to strengthen a conviction long after just cause was initially proven.

    Because of the complexity of business dealings, even if LE is focused on one or more prime suspects, I think there’s also a significant amount of investigative work happening to eliminate other potential suspects as well. Due diligence.... no surprises.

    That warrants and subpoenas are still being issued is a positive indication LE is making progress IMO.
     
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  16. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    The deaths occurred during Hanukkah, the second night if on the 13th Dec.

    Jewish people rarely commit suicide, it would be more unthinkable to suicide during Hanukkah.

    I think that is yet another reason for the TPS to know that this was a double murder.
     
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  17. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    That the Homicide Unit took over the investigation as soon as the preliminary autopsy findings indicated both died by ligature neck compression I think was also an indication there was proof of outside involvement.

    BBM
    Toronto Police Service Homicide is comprised of a very dedicated group of men and women who are extremely committed to conducting quality investigations, ensuring that those responsible are held accountable for their actions in a court of law.”
    Toronto Police Service :: To Serve and Protect

    Earlier, when the media initially reported Honey incurred head injuries with “police sources” suggesting m/s, I think the preconceived expectation by the general public was Honey’s death was caused by head trauma, Barry’s was asphyxia by hanging (exactly as was Robin Williams death). But for neither of the Shermans, that wasn’t so. That’s when my opinion changed.
     
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  18. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    The article describes the scene as it was discovered by the real estate agent or housekeeper, IMO. When asked by the journalist, they would have no idea about TOD. The police likely have a time range, but police aren't talking to jounalists.

    So often the media are making bricks without straw, I think we have to remember that.
     
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  19. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    I think they suspected right away that Honey's death was a homicide, so that would explain why they were immediately brought in.
     
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  20. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    But that was sort of my point, the homicide team didn’t immediately take lead, not until the preliminary autopsy was concluded. There is no need for the homicide team to investigate a homicide when the suspect is also dead. As per my quote just above, they become involved when a homicide involves prosecution in a court of law. In Canada there’s no such thing as a post mortem conviction, probably nowhere else either.
     
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