Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

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andreww

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Does anyone think the Prime Minister, Premier of the province, Wayne Gretzky and literally thousands of other prominent people with a reputation to uphold would have attended the funeral if there was an inkling of suspicion in the public's mind that Barry Sherman was a murderer? As the Star reported, "There was roiling anger." I didn't even know this couple, and I'm still mad the police let their hasty and unfounded conclusion leak and didn't retract it until January.
Plenty of times people here have questioned me as to why the family would care so much whether it was a murder or a murder suicide. You've just answered it.
 

Kaley Smith

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Did you ever stop and think that the police were right in their initial conclusion?
I may have spent 3- 5 mins on that unlikely scenario. I believe my first post on here about it was something like, No way! Why? Because I knew Barry Sherman was a very rich man who had many enemies. I also know how much harder it is as we age to accomplish difficult physical feats. I look at the psychological aspects of a case too. Would the mindset of someone like Barry Sherman be to murder his beloved wife and mother of his children at that time of year, with what was going on in their lives at the time? Far as I had heard, he did not have a disease or dementia. I also knew he was Jewish, which I believe does factor in.

My second thought though was that the murderer(s) will get away with this one. I don't know why, but it just came to mind almost immediately. That was just a hunch.
 

Satchie

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Does anyone think the Prime Minister, Premier of the province, Wayne Gretzky and literally thousands of other prominent people with a reputation to uphold would have attended the funeral if there was an inkling of suspicion in the public's mind that Barry Sherman was a murderer? As the Star reported, "There was roiling anger." I didn't even know this couple, and I'm still mad the police let their hasty and unfounded conclusion leak and didn't retract it until January.
I think you are attacking the wrong target.

The Toronto Sun chose to publish something they knew would be inflammatory and hurtful to the family. They claimed 'insider' knowledge, yet refuse to state who that person was.

Since when did the Sun get elevated to such high status? I remember it as a tabloid rag most famous for it's sunshine girls.
 

MistyWaters

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All that I got out of that press conference is that police really don't give a $hit, which just further enforces my belief that they are already sure of what happened. This so called reward will do nothing but draw tips from a million crazies around the world that the family can later claim TPS didn't follow up on. Greenspan seemed intent on using this PC to further his business, making it an official private law enforcement agency. What a joke. The one reporter nailed it when he pointed out that police no duty to anyone but finding the truth, whilst Greenspan is committed to the family who are still butt hurt at the suggestion of murder suicide.

Other than perhaps a very inexperienced or naive responding officer, nobody who views two bodies hanging from belts on a pool railing has the ability to automatically conclude a m/s occurred. The realtor and the clients, in thinking they were seeing a macabre arrangement left over from Halloween offered a first impression that was about as accurate.

After this press conference, until TPS tells their side of the story, how can you support a police dept that “is already sure of what happened” but instead six weeks later officially announced to the public a targeted double homicide occurred?
 

Kaley Smith

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Andrew... ANY family with half a heart, rich or not, would not want to see their Dad falsely accused of murdering his wife! I don't know why anyone would question why it matters so much to the family. As for Barry wearing his glasses, it's obvious to me this was a revenge killing and the perps wanted to humiliate him and ruin his reputation. They wanted to make it look like he did it? Or maybe they wanted him to see the horror unfolding before him. Probably both.
 

MistyWaters

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The private team is emphasising that their resources can help the police with the investigation. Several questions from the journalists suggest a sense of scepticism about the team's impartiality.

Journalist: Rewards can be offered if there are no more leads, or if there is one potential 'big break' lead - was this press conference called because of either? Greenspan: Could be one or the other'.

And it could be one or the other. It was interesting the TPS Chief of Police was publicly invited to join the 24/7 tip line with the others. If the PI team is aware of certain people who are holding back incriminating information who are reluctant to come forward, $10 million is a means to motivate them to do the right thing while also placing them directly in TPS’s lap.
 
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sceawian

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I am so surprised Barry's glasses did not fall off when he was attacked and strung up.How did they stay on his face unless possibly he was not attacked.Just a thought...

I think what they are suggesting is that they were both carefully positioned after the attack. I.e. putting his glasses neatly back on, arranging his leg position. I wonder why they made him look 'neat', but still left his jacket partially down his arms? I guess he was posed so carefully because they didn't want to give the appearance that he was attacked too, but suicide victims don't exactly all just sit down tidily and die.
 

andreww

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Andrew... ANY family with half a heart, rich or not, would not want to see their Dad falsely accused of murdering his wife! I don't know why anyone would question why it matters so much to the family. As for Barry wearing his glasses, it's obvious to me this was a revenge killing and the perps wanted to humiliate him and ruin his reputation. They wanted to make it look like he did it? Or maybe they wanted him to see the horror unfolding before him. Probably both.
But, they say the setup at the pool was staged. Soooo, he wasn't seeing anything.
 

andreww

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Andrew... ANY family with half a heart, rich or not, would not want to see their Dad falsely accused of murdering his wife! I don't know why anyone would question why it matters so much to the family. As for Barry wearing his glasses, it's obvious to me this was a revenge killing and the perps wanted to humiliate him and ruin his reputation. They wanted to make it look like he did it? Or maybe they wanted him to see the horror unfolding before him. Probably both.
Plenty of people here didn't seem to agree with you. I have long maintained that the family use money and political power to influence LE's decision on this case. Greenspan even bragged about it today.
 

andreww

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I may have spent 3- 5 mins on that unlikely scenario. I believe my first post on here about it was something like, No way! Why? Because I knew Barry Sherman was a very rich man who had many enemies. I also know how much harder it is as we age to accomplish difficult physical feats. I look at the psychological aspects of a case too. Would the mindset of someone like Barry Sherman be to murder his beloved wife and mother of his children at that time of year, with what was going on in their lives at the time? Far as I had heard, he did not have a disease or dementia. I also knew he was Jewish, which I believe does factor in.

My second thought though was that the murderer(s) will get away with this one. I don't know why, but it just came to mind almost immediately. That was just a hunch.

Yes he was born to a jewish family, but he was pretty much a atheist. I'll also dispute your "beloved wife" comment. As for physical feats, if he were dragging a body upstairs I'd agree with you, but as Newton proved a long time ago, gravity is your friend. But regardless of all that, men do occasionally kill their wives, and the people around them always say they would never have suspected it.
 

MistyWaters

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Personally, I believe that statement was made to serve an important police function, which is to prevent public panic from the idea that someone is roaming around, breaking into homes and murdering the inhabitants. I've noticed LE usually make some kind of statement shartly after a crime like this, to the effect: public should exercise caution, or this appears to be targetted and the public is not at risk, etc.

In this case, in the first hours they were unsure what had happened, but what they said was true, as that officer knew it at that moment..

When police inform the public of the state of an investigation, they don't send a junior officer out to chat with random reporters. They hold an official press conference where the head of the investigation answers questions, because that's the person who knows the big picture.

I think reporters know this quite well, but the media is a competitive business, and they're chasing clicks.

I agree about this. This isn’t the only murder case where LE has initially stated they noted no forced entry or no suspects were being sought to calm the neighbourhood on the same day bodies are discovered. The reason is LE don’t want people panicked and shooting at some poor guy who just happens to be innocently walking down the back alley when someone goes out to place their bin, thinking a murderer is on the loose running around the neighbourhood.

But the media ran with those statements as proof of a m/s theory even though any crime reporter ought to know better. And TPS was far too silent for too long, only officially stating the deaths were deemed “suspicious” all the while knowing the media was having a field day with anonymous sources and rumours.

So I can understand why the family might hold a certain amount of animosity toward TPS. The ongoing m/s rumours are damaging to the reputation of everyone - TPS, the family, the PI team, the victims. The sole benefactor is the killer/s.
 

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$10 million reward offered in Barry and Honey Sherman murder investigation - CityNews Toronto
"The Sherman family is offering a reward of up to $10 million for information leading to the prosecution of those who murdered Barry and Honey Sherman.

The investigative team hired by the family held a news conference to announce the new initiative on Friday.

Lawyer Brian Greenspan said a call centre has been established to collect tips and information 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

“The leads will be analyzed and vetted and any meaningful information will be conveyed immediately to Toronto police.” The toll-free number is 1-833-668-0001."
 
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MistyWaters

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Do you think that police are really that inept? This whole thing is a sham and todays press conference all but proved that.

Yes, TPS would have to be absolutely inept to be investigating a targeted double homicide that never occurred, claiming to have invested the largest amount of resources in the history of TPS into it.
 

andreww

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I think what they are suggesting is that they were both carefully positioned after the attack. I.e. putting his glasses neatly back on, arranging his leg position. I wonder why they made him look 'neat', but still left his jacket partially down his arms? I guess he was posed so carefully because they didn't want to give the appearance that he was attacked too, but suicide victims don't exactly all just sit down tidily and die.
BBM, you know this how?
 

andreww

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Yes, TPS would have to be absolutely inept to be investigating a targeted double homicide that never occurred, claiming to have invested the largest amount of resources in the history of TPS into it.
Ah, thats what they said, but today we find out that they haven't even collected fingerprints of cleaners and people known to be in the house. That is the FIRST thing you do. So if they didn't do that, what did they do? And why did they not even take that first step? Me thinks TPS is like the shady mechanic who claims to have been under the hood for hours but did nothing.
 

MistyWaters

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BBM, you know this how?

You can find various references on the internet regarding ligature neck compression and involuntary convulsions associated to it, written by medical experts who have become specialists in that particular field of research.

It’s doubtful any of us here have experienced it first hand.
 

andreww

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Other than perhaps a very inexperienced or naive responding officer, nobody who views two bodies hanging from belts on a pool railing has the ability to automatically conclude a m/s occurred. The realtor and the clients, in thinking they were seeing a macabre arrangement left over from Halloween offered a first impression that was about as accurate.

After this press conference, until TPS tells their side of the story, how can you support a police dept that “is already sure of what happened” but instead six weeks later officially announced to the public a targeted double homicide occurred?
You really haven't been listening to what myself and KW have been saying have you? In no way is this TPS's fault. The decision to call this a double murder came from political pressure. Lets start with the mayor showing up in the police chiefs office the day after the funeral.
 
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