CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #3

[MistyWaters]

Exactly. Cattle get sick, ranches deal with it. A few TB cases is not a plausible reason to bring a GM from out of the country, imo. Certainly not reason to bring on more monthly expenses to a ranch already experiencing “cash flow” issues. Moo
Best wishes for your friend & their herd.

Cattle founded to be carrying bovine TB is disastrous to any one farm or ranch because it can result in the entire herd being put down. It’s well beyond cattle “getting sick”. I’ve posted several links on prior pages but if you’re interested in the possible ramifications, I don’t mind posting them again.

However as we don’t know the reason Ben was hired, neither do we know if that reason had any direct connection to his death.

 

[TatianaBarbie]

PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines. (Jan 30, 2019)
Cowboy lacking close to Merritt | Vancouver Solar - Danilfineman (Jan 29,2019)

Both of these early articles from right after Ben went missing mention the possibility that Ben had taken a drone with him. Did Ben own a drone, or did he borrow one? If he did have a drone, was a drone found at his residence, in the search area, or is it missing? Some drones use a smart phone for guidance, while more expensive ones have their own control screen. If Ben was using the more affordable drone, he would need to have his cell phone with him to see what the drone was seeing.

I have been waiting, since the beginning of February, to see if there was any more information about Ben having/using a drone, but there has been no additional mention of a drone. Maybe it is totally unimportant, but somebody must have mentioned about a drone to LE or the media, and I think it would be important to know who gave that information. Perhaps it was an embellishment to make the story of "Ben looking for strays" more believable, or maybe Ben did own a drone.

We are now on Thread #3, and everyone has brought up such good points about so many details in the investigation, but I haven't seen this detail discussed. Maybe it is totally unimportant, but I thought it should be mentioned.

 

[ktm44]

Another piece of information glaringly missing - if police know the whereabouts of Ben that Saturday night, where was that at and who was he with? Did he tell anyone his plans for Sunday, the next day?

And who are these “other ranchers” and do they know for a fact Ben had searched for stray cattle on Swakum Ridge in the past and if so did he ride there? Did he always go alone? Or were they just guessing it was a possible explanation for his horse being found on Swakum Mountain? This would be information the RCMP would we aware of.

“RCMP said earlier this week that other ranchers believe Tyner rode to an area known as Swakum Ridge, northwest of Merritt, and may have been searching for stray cattle belonging to the ranch....”
Search for missing Merritt cowboy suspended

****

A possible and difficult scenario, LE may have a a theory but at this time lack sufficient evidence in order to obtain a search warrant to search on privately owned backcountry land belonging to a suspect.

When Is A Warrant Needed For Police to Search Premises or Property?
“....The police must give evidence to the judge or justice of the peace to satisfy her that reasonable and probable grounds for the invasion of privacy exist before the search and seizure will be authorized by way of a warrant or court order...”
B.C. Civil Liberties Association: When Can Police Search Your Vehicle, Premises or Property

There can be poor usage of industry terms,. Cowboys work with cattle and ranchers own cattle but to an outsider, anyone who works on a ranch could be considered a rancher.

At one point I had read an article that indicated Ben had said he was going to look for strays on his day off. I would suggest that the location they indicated had something to do with that discussion and it's likely the area where NR crown grazing leases are.

Given the discussion on logging, grazing, trapping and band lands, I don't think there is freehold land in the area.

 

[Trudie]

There can be poor usage of industry terms,. Cowboys work with cattle and ranchers own cattle but to an outsider, anyone who works on a ranch could be considered a rancher.

At one point I had read an article that indicated Ben had said he was going to look for strays on his day off. I would suggest that the location they indicated had something to do with that discussion and it's likely the area where NR crown grazing leases are.

Given the discussion on logging, grazing, trapping and band lands, I don't think there is freehold land in the area.

It seems reasonable other ranchers refers to NR cow hands. They should have been questioned immediately once LE arrived at NR. I doubt other ranchers knew of his “supposed” plans.
Honestly, idk how NR stayed afloat after MW departed. The idea to eliminate the salary of the GM might have sounded appealing but the need to refill the opening leads me to believe the cas flow situation worsened. I think Ben had a big task ahead of him. A challenge he evidently looked forward to.
I firmly believe this is not the crime of the century, the suspect list is minute & LE has a mountain of evidence. Someone might be expecting a knock on their door......

 

[MistyWaters]

I think we all know media reports are sometimes incorrect or often updated by new information as we noticed from the “2pm Sat last seen”, then came the statement LE knew Ben’s whereabouts Sat night. There were also reports of Ben riding Saturday but curiously, this one mentions police believe he rode out on Sunday (....not insisting it’s correct, just pointing it out).

“Police believe 32-year-old Benjamin Tyner, the ranch manager of nearby Nicola Ranch, went out on horseback Sunday, but he has not been seen or heard from since then.

As the search continues, Merritt RCMP have narrowed down the timeline of how long he has been out for, but are still trying to determine how Tyner made his way out to where he was riding, and where he was headed....

.....We know of his whereabouts on Saturday night, so that gives us an extra day," Dunsmore explains. "We are still looking at how he may have gone up here, because we're still thinking that maybe he was driven up. So we don't know who would have driven him up, or if there's anybody out there that maybe brought him up with a truck and trailer, and we're looking for that person if that did happen."
Searchers narrow time frame of Merritt cowboy's disappearance

 

[MistyWaters]

PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines. (Jan 30, 2019)
Cowboy lacking close to Merritt | Vancouver Solar - Danilfineman (Jan 29,2019)

Both of these early articles from right after Ben went missing mention the possibility that Ben had taken a drone with him. Did Ben own a drone, or did he borrow one? If he did have a drone, was a drone found at his residence, in the search area, or is it missing? Some drones use a smart phone for guidance, while more expensive ones have their own control screen. If Ben was using the more affordable drone, he would need to have his cell phone with him to see what the drone was seeing.

I have been waiting, since the beginning of February, to see if there was any more information about Ben having/using a drone, but there has been no additional mention of a drone. Maybe it is totally unimportant, but somebody must have mentioned about a drone to LE or the media, and I think it would be important to know who gave that information. Perhaps it was an embellishment to make the story of "Ben looking for strays" more believable, or maybe Ben did own a drone.

We are now on Thread #3, and everyone has brought up such good points about so many details in the investigation, but I haven't seen this detail discussed. Maybe it is totally unimportant, but I thought it should be mentioned.

I wonder if he had a company cellphone? If so, where is it?

But you’re absolutely right, no mention of a drone. Another unknown to add to the list.

 

[TatianaBarbie]

I think we all know media reports are sometimes incorrect or often updated by new information as we noticed from the “2pm Sat last seen”, then came the statement LE knew Ben’s whereabouts Sat night. There were also reports of Ben riding Saturday but curiously, this one mentions police believe he rode out on Sunday (....not insisting it’s correct, just pointing it out).

“Police believe 32-year-old Benjamin Tyner, the ranch manager of nearby Nicola Ranch, went out on horseback Sunday, but he has not been seen or heard from since then.

As the search continues, Merritt RCMP have narrowed down the timeline of how long he has been out for, but are still trying to determine how Tyner made his way out to where he was riding, and where he was headed....

.....We know of his whereabouts on Saturday night, so that gives us an extra day," Dunsmore explains. "We are still looking at how he may have gone up here, because we're still thinking that maybe he was driven up. So we don't know who would have driven him up, or if there's anybody out there that maybe brought him up with a truck and trailer, and we're looking for that person if that did happen."
Searchers narrow time frame of Merritt cowboy's disappearance

Thank you @MistyWaters for linking that article. It was good to read about the early search efforts again. There could only be four ways for Ben's horse to reach the area it was found in:

1. Ben taking the road/trail under the Coq highway and following it to the other side of Swakum Ridge where the horse was found.
2. Ben riding his horse on the shoulder of the highway, through Merritt, up 97C, and using the logging road to get to where the horse was found.
3. Ben taking his own truck and trailer with his horse to the area where his horse was found.
4. Someone else taking the horse (and possibly Ben) to where the horse was found.

By January 30/31, LE was already thinking that #4 was the most likely. I remember being surprised at the time how they came to that conclusion so quickly. So, besides the lack of further mention of the drone, this was the part of the investigation that has caused me to wonder. How did they know this so quickly?

ETA read about the search efforts "again."

 

[rb63]

I wonder if he had a company cellphone? If so, where is it?

But you’re absolutely right, no mention of a drone. Another unknown to add to the list.

I would think the RCMP would have checked out his cell phone first and also would know if he had company one (check it out as well)...

 

[Trudie]

By January 30/31, LE was already thinking that #4 was the most likely. I remember being surprised at the time how they came to that conclusion so quickly. So, besides the lack of further mention of the drone, this was the part of the investigation that has caused me to wonder. How did they know this so quickly?

@TatianaBarbie lack of tracks leaving the ranch & iirc, LE & SAR thought it impossible for Ben to ride up the ridge. Jack Tyner probably knew where his brother might or more importantly, might not ride, offering insight.
When I get on my laptop I’ll look for the drone info, I may have saved a few.
I remember the articles but found them confusing. Almost as if the search drones became Ben’s drones to search for strays.

 

[Trudie]

I would think the RCMP would have checked out his cell phone first and also would know if he had company one (check it out as well)...

Yeah, LE 101.
IMO, They could not assume there had been a riding mishap.
An investigation of some type had to begin, at least questioning NR staff-where did they think Ben was, why was it not considered unusual he was absent without notifying the office, when was he last seen, etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

I would think the RCMP would have checked out his cell phone first and also would know if he had company one (check it out as well)...

I would think so too. And I could be wrong but I thought it was the family who disclosed the fact Ben’s cellphone was found (at his home)? If so, they might not have been at liberty to disclose anything more, including anything that might’ve been missing?

The RCMP have provided virtually no details to that regard, although that’s not really unusual.

 

[MistyWaters]

@TatianaBarbie lack of tracks leaving the ranch & iirc, LE & SAR thought it impossible for Ben to ride up the ridge. Jack Tyner probably knew where his brother might or more importantly, might not ride, offering insight.
When I get on my laptop I’ll look for the drone info, I may have saved a few.
I remember the articles but found them confusing. Almost as if the search drones became Ben’s drones to search for strays.

Can we absolutely rule out that Ben did not ever go searching for stray cattle on his days off, particularly on the Saturday? Or that he never rode away from the ranch? If he did, wouldn’t there be tracks of some sort?

Because I hadn’t noticed it reported there were no tracks leaving the ranch. Do you have a link? Tracking the horse from the location she was found was not possible because of logging activity and wild horses in the area. Google is finding me no other mention of tracking whatsoever.

I’m only asking because sometimes parts of theories sprout into stated fact and later everyone is left scratching their heads trying to figure out how we knew what we thought we did.

 

[rb63]

Can we absolutely rule out that Ben did not ever go searching for stray cattle on his days off, particularly on the Saturday? Or that he never rode away from the ranch? If he did, wouldn’t there be tracks of some sort?

Because I hadn’t noticed it reported there were no tracks leaving the ranch. Do you have a link? Tracking the horse from the location she was found was not possible because of logging activity and wild horses in the area. Google is finding me no other mention of tracking whatsoever.

I’m only asking because sometimes parts of theories sprout into stated fact and later everyone is left scratching their heads trying to figure out how we knew what we thought we did.

Report was he looked for strays at 2pm, seems unlikely to go up into Swakum at that time of day ending up on the other side of mountain, knowing it would be dark soon.
If he had left at 8am it would have made more sense. *Just my opinion*

 

[Trudie]

Report was he looked for strays at 2pm, seems unlikely to go up into Swakum at that time of day ending up on the other side of mountain, knowing it would be dark soon.
If he had left at 8am it would have made more sense. *Just my opinion*

Hey @rb63 plus, LE knows where Ben was Saturday night.
It was never said he went looking for strays again on Sunday or early Monday a.m. Lack of horse tracks from NR was a big clue for LE. Like every case people try to cover their butt, stories change, people lie.

 

[rb63]

Hey @rb63 plus, LE knows where Ben was Saturday night.
It was never said he went looking for strays again on Sunday or early Monday a.m. Lack of horse tracks from NR was a big clue for LE. Like every case people try to cover their butt, stories change, people lie.

You are exactly right. Nothing about it on Sunday or Monday.

 

[Jim_M]

Can we absolutely rule out that Ben did not ever go searching for stray cattle on his days off, particularly on the Saturday? Or that he never rode away from the ranch? If he did, wouldn’t there be tracks of some sort?

Because I hadn’t noticed it reported there were no tracks leaving the ranch. Do you have a link? Tracking the horse from the location she was found was not possible because of logging activity and wild horses in the area. Google is finding me no other mention of tracking whatsoever.

I’m only asking because sometimes parts of theories sprout into stated fact and later everyone is left scratching their heads trying to figure out how we knew what we thought we did.

Not sure if this article might clear some more ‘tracking’ details from KR:

Mystery of missing Merritt cowboy deepens as search continues amid plunging temperatures

Robinson said he'd been active in the area for about a month, and hadn't seen any tracks between the Nicola Ranch and where he found the horse.

Source: Mystery of missing Merritt cowboy deepens as search continues amid plunging temperatures

 

[Trudie]

Not sure if this article might clear some more ‘tracking’ details from KR:

Mystery of missing Merritt cowboy deepens as search continues amid plunging temperatures

Robinson said he'd been active in the area for about a month, and hadn't seen any tracks between the Nicola Ranch and where he found the horse.

Source: Mystery of missing Merritt cowboy deepens as search continues amid plunging temperatures

It was determined very early on tracks out of NR were nonexistent. Around the time Tracy Dunsmore commented how unusual it is for a seasoned cowboy to go missing. I’m not sure of her exact phrase. Links available thread #1. Tysm @Jim_M for your links.

 

[MistyWaters]

Report was he looked for strays at 2pm, seems unlikely to go up into Swakum at that time of day ending up on the other side of mountain, knowing it would be dark soon.
If he had left at 8am it would have made more sense. *Just my opinion*

I think you might be referring to the Saturday at 2pm, last seen? I think that led people to believe he likely disappeared on the Saturday as that info was released in the earliest news reports. Then further info on Jan 30th, LE claimed they knew Ben’s whereabouts Saturday night.

Link above -
“We know of his whereabouts on Saturday night, so that gives us an extra day," Dunsmore explains.”

 

[rb63]

I think you might be referring to the Saturday at 2pm, last seen? I think that led people to believe he likely disappeared on the Saturday as that info was released in the earliest news reports. Then further info on Jan 30th, LE claimed they knew Ben’s whereabouts Saturday night.

Link above -
“We know of his whereabouts on Saturday night, so that gives us an extra day," Dunsmore explains.”

Ok I am confused because that is the only day that I seen they were looking for strays.. Do you have link of another day, or why did you ask question about ruling out???

 

[MistyWaters]

Not sure if this article might clear some more ‘tracking’ details from KR:

Mystery of missing Merritt cowboy deepens as search continues amid plunging temperatures

Robinson said he'd been active in the area for about a month, and hadn't seen any tracks between the Nicola Ranch and where he found the horse.

Source: Mystery of missing Merritt cowboy deepens as search continues amid plunging temperatures

Yes indeed, I’d read that before but the question is, did he look for tracks? I wish his words were quoted because in other reports he was somewhat hostile that he wasn’t allowed to participate in the search, seemed like he was asked to leave the area. He also insisted it was impossible for Ben to have ridden the horse to where she was found. So why or how would he look for tracks when he wasn’t allowed to stay in the area and he didn’t believe the route was even possible?

Reporter - Did you find any tracks between A and B.
Trapper - No, I didn’t see any because I wasn’t allowed access to the private property.
Reporter - Trapper didn’t find any tracks.

How many miles between the ranch and where the horse was found? How many between the ridge where cattle may have strayed to and the logging road where the horse was found? That would be very interesting to know. Is there only one route to the Ridge? I somehow doubt that and if so, not seeing tracks is not the same as “no tracks”.

I personally think IF tracks could be found or not is another unknown, as LE has never said one way or another. If tracking wasn’t possible, maybe it was because there were too many tracks? Maybe by the time the weather turned within those first few days, police were still focused on a rescue operation?

By no means am I insisting I’m right, just that we don’t have enough information to conclusively know what LE hasn’t told us. I’ve seem nothing to totally rule out the theory that Ben was ambushed while riding somewhere. Where he was attacked, whether it was at NR or riding makes his disappearance no less significant IMO