CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

[FromGermany1]

If it is more than 1 perp, why do we only know of the WM?

How can the other perp not be on CCTV somewhere? They found the WM on many cameras and traced his route for 1.3 KM but they have no other reports of unidentified, suspicious people on camera?

I have always considered the perp had a weapon, a gun or knife, I think gun. If the gloves and envelope on the floor at the undergrounds garage entrance looked like they had been dropped, not thrown, I envision someone putting their hands up in the air and dropping anything in your hands. If they were grabbed and being strangled I would expect the envelope and gloves to be spread out, thrown in your surprise that someone grabbed you, and not located nicely on the floor.

With the little facts we are learning now that confirms some of our earlier conversations, I am starting to think again that every item left out was part of the staging. Like Hansel and Gretel, following the bread crumbs, HS phone to her wallet, BS paperwork and gloves, all items to show someone all was not kopostectic in the home.

Interesting! The crumbs are showing us "unexpected raid". Now, what is the contrary of it? "Expected visit" at 9pm? By someone known to HS/BS? Something secret as secret can be, not to handle at Apotex? To be dealt with verbally only? So thought HS/BS, and then it turned out to be something else??

Sorry, that I have questions only. Answers I would prefer too!

 

[MerlinFalcon]

If it is more than 1 perp, why do we only know of the WM?

How can the other perp not be on CCTV somewhere? They found the WM on many cameras and traced his route for 1.3 KM but they have no other reports of unidentified, suspicious people on camera?

I have always considered the perp had a weapon, a gun or knife, I think gun. If the gloves and envelope on the floor at the undergrounds garage entrance looked like they had been dropped, not thrown, I envision someone putting their hands up in the air and dropping anything in your hands. If they were grabbed and being strangled I would expect the envelope and gloves to be spread out, thrown in your surprise that someone grabbed you, and not located nicely on the floor.

With the little facts we are learning now that confirms some of our earlier conversations, I am starting to think again that every item left out was part of the staging. Like Hansel and Gretel, following the bread crumbs, HS phone to her wallet, BS paperwork and gloves, all items to show someone all was not kopostectic in the home.

One thing that comes to mind is the NW vanished at some point so if there was another person, maybe they did too? Could the other person have walked through the back of the house to a waiting car?

Let's hope KD's next trip to court provides some new details!

 

[DeDee]

That leads one to wonder who knew in advance that BS would be arriving home earlier than usual that night? Someone with access to their calendar, or someone close enough to know that HS and Bs had a call with the lawyer scheduled. It sounds to me like they had a 9pm called scheduled, otherwise it would seem late for a lawyer to be calling them.

Having access to the Sherman's calendar is one way to know their schedule. This knowledge is quite important to the killer. May I suggest it is possible that a tracking device was planted on BS's vehicle

Even though the one sold at Amazon comes without a monthly fee, it has since been discontinued. However, it was available at the time of the Murders. Takes the guessing out of where B&H were in their vehicles with one of these jewels attached.

Let's see some defense: It's time to equip a GPS tracker for your car

My apologies for not reading further as I see now that you guys are on it!

 

[DeDee]

KW

The murders of Barry and Honey have been with me from that cold DEC morning when the news broke. However, I took a sabbatical from WS to recover from sleuthing the Delphi murders of Libby and Abby.

Is it ironic that the killer's height as given by authorities is within the height of KW's own 5'6" -5'9"?

Barry and Kerry were close like father and son for many years until they weren't.

Although not admissible in US Courts of Criminal Law, KW failed the lie detector test. Investigators in the US might use them as a tool. Is there a transcript of the questions asked of KW? TIA

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-cousin-1.4514176

"I was betrayed. My cousin hurt me, and now I want to hurt him," Winter told The Fifth Estate.

FEB 1, 2018 CBC Toronto FB post
Kerry Winter, a cousin of Barry Sherman, has failed a lie detector test after making allegations that the former Apotex CEO was part of an aborted plot to kill his wife two decades ago.

CBC Toronto - Kerry Winter, a cousin of Barry Sherman, has...

https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/betrayal-trauma
Unpleasant emotions can show up in the aftermath of betrayal. You may feel: 1. humiliated 2. ashamed 3. furious or vengeful 4. sick 5. grieved

 

[FromGermany1]

The lawyer was planned to call at 9pm on the fateful day. WHY did the NW, if he is the killer, come to the HS/BS home at the same, relative early time, and why did he not come much later at night? For murdering the two home owners, it hadn't to be 9pm.
But if the person WAS PLANNED to be involved in the conversation HS+BS+lawyer, then the timing by the NW would make more sense (only that the NW wasn't involved, because the conversation never took place).

IF between the NW and HS/BS the inspection papers were a main theme (??), it would make further sense, when the papers were later staged as if fallen down like something completely unimportant during an attack in the basement.

 

[DeDee]

The lawyer was planned to call at 9pm on the fateful day. WHY did the NW, if he is the killer, come to the HS/BS home at the same, relative early time, and why did he not come much later at night? For murdering the two home owners, it hadn't to be 9pm.
But if the person WAS PLANNED to be involved in the conversation HS+BS+lawyer, then the timing by the NW would make more sense (only that the NW wasn't involved, because the conversation never took place).

IF between the NW and HS/BS the inspection papers were a main theme (??), it would make further sense, when the papers were later staged as if fallen down like something completely unimportant during an attack in the basement.

It could be that Barry exited his car in the garage carrying important docs re new house that he intended to discuss with a lawyer. Hence, they were with him as he entered inside his home. Staged at the CS.

 

[RHR]

Or the killer(s) got really lucky. ie that Barry didn’t get home any earlier.

I almost think the killer(s) had to have intel/monitoring of Barry and Honey. It’s just way too risky that they could show up and Honey had an impromptu visitor. Like what if MS had dropped by ?! What would the killers do if someone else was there??

Remember that Sheila Stanley, Honey's assistant said H did not have a password. I think anyone with a little tech knowledge could have been monitoring her emails.

 

[dotr]

The murders of Barry and Honey have been with me from that cold DEC morning when the news broke. However, I took a sabbatical from WS to recover from sleuthing the Delphi murders of Libby and Abby.

Is it ironic that the killer's height as given by authorities is within the height of KW's own 5'6" -5'9"?

Barry and Kerry were close like father and son for many years until they weren't.

Although not admissible in US Courts of Criminal Law, KW failed the lie detector test. Investigators in the US might use them as a tool. Is there a transcript of the questions asked of KW? TIA

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-cousin-1.4514176



FEB 1, 2018 CBC Toronto FB post
Kerry Winter, a cousin of Barry Sherman, has failed a lie detector test after making allegations that the former Apotex CEO was part of an aborted plot to kill his wife two decades ago.

CBC Toronto - Kerry Winter, a cousin of Barry Sherman, has...

https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/betrayal-trauma
Unpleasant emotions can show up in the aftermath of betrayal. You may feel: 1. humiliated 2. ashamed 3. furious or vengeful 4. sick 5. grieved

@2:20 the lie detection test.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

The lawyer was planned to call at 9pm on the fateful day. WHY did the NW, if he is the killer, come to the HS/BS home at the same, relative early time, and why did he not come much later at night? For murdering the two home owners, it hadn't to be 9pm.
But if the person WAS PLANNED to be involved in the conversation HS+BS+lawyer, then the timing by the NW would make more sense (only that the NW wasn't involved, because the conversation never took place).

IF between the NW and HS/BS the inspection papers were a main theme (??), it would make further sense, when the papers were later staged as if fallen down like something completely unimportant during an attack in the basement.

If the gloves and papers were staged, set down not sewn about, how does this coincide with the rest of staging, hanging of the bodies and a murder suicide? Why leave the envelope on the floor, it is not reported that the envelope was opened and the paper work visible, the reports are an envelope that contained the home inspection report. Did the perp even know or care about the contents?

 

[MerlinFalcon]

The murders of Barry and Honey have been with me from that cold DEC morning when the news broke. However, I took a sabbatical from WS to recover from sleuthing the Delphi murders of Libby and Abby.

Is it ironic that the killer's height as given by authorities is within the height of KW's own 5'6" -5'9"?

Barry and Kerry were close like father and son for many years until they weren't.

Although not admissible in US Courts of Criminal Law, KW failed the lie detector test. Investigators in the US might use them as a tool. Is there a transcript of the questions asked of KW? TIA

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-cousin-1.4514176



FEB 1, 2018 CBC Toronto FB post
Kerry Winter, a cousin of Barry Sherman, has failed a lie detector test after making allegations that the former Apotex CEO was part of an aborted plot to kill his wife two decades ago.

CBC Toronto - Kerry Winter, a cousin of Barry Sherman, has...

https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/betrayal-trauma
Unpleasant emotions can show up in the aftermath of betrayal. You may feel: 1. humiliated 2. ashamed 3. furious or vengeful 4. sick 5. grieved

How tall is KW? Do we know?

 

[WINDSOR]

If for one minute we suppose the phone call at around 9:00 pm was important factor in the deaths, and that was why the NW was in the house. If the phone call is important, what was it about? Remember nobody answered the lawyer's call.

I doubt the call was about the new home to be constructed in Forest Hill. It could have been about estate matters, and possibly about Honey's new will.

The fact neither the lawyer nor the TPS have disclosed the reason for the call, leads me to think it was very significant. So significant that the perpetrator(s) could not allow the deceased take the call.

What if the lawyer was calling to say that Honey's new will was ready, and 'so and so' was added and 'so and so#2' was removed.

Has anybody, like KD or other media attempted to interview the lawyer? Does lawyer-client privilege exist after death in Ontario?


MOCK CONSERVATION
Lawyer "I have the new will ready, with the changes you requested."
Client "Great, so that idiot son in law is removed, and my uncle is added in for a full share ?"
Lawyer "Exactly."

 

[FromGermany1]

If the gloves and papers were staged, set down not sewn about, how does this coincide with the rest of staging, hanging of the bodies and a murder suicide? Why leave the envelope on the floor, it is not reported that the envelope was opened and the paper work visible, the reports are an envelope that contained the home inspection report. Did the perp even know or care about the contents?

What, if it should look like it was M/S because of a crucial dispute re the NEW future mansion, but the double murder took place because of the OLD building (revenge)?
A profitable sale of the building was prevented in any case with the double murder. Was that on purpose?

With the old building on Old Colony Road HS/BS - by the way: both!! - had quasi enriched themselves through their extensive lawsuits against the builders. If I remember right, the Shermans claimed, the home would have been a disaster in it's construction and design and almost all work poorly executed. Afaik, some of the companies involved didn't survive the disputs and claims settlements and went bankrupt.

 

[FPoulet]

MOO based on what we know: I think Barry and Honey had a call scheduled with the lawyer at 9pm. I think it related to estate planning and/or transfer of wealth to Honey from Barry.

I think it’s possible Barry and/or Honey had documents with them for the call, but to our knowledge none were found — that we know of at least. We are aware only of a house inspection report for OC being on the ground.

MOO I think the lawyer wasn’t talking due to confidentiality/privilege issues. Rules are strict around that for lawyers. Whether that is still the case, I don’t know.

Separately but not unrelated, I think the trustees could have stopped Goodmans LLP from running interference on the document production on the basis of privilege and instead given the police access to all of Barry’s emails and calendar. But they chose not to do so. Query whether all of the trustees had equal insight into the nature of those emails/documents that have been suppressed.

MOO

 

[FPoulet]

What, if it should look like it was M/S because of a crucial dispute re the NEW future mansion, but the double murder took place because of the OLD building (revenge)?
A profitable sale of the building was prevented in any case with the double murder. Was that on purpose?

With the old building on Old Colony Road HS/BS - by the way: both!! - had quasi enriched themselves through their extensive lawsuits against the builders. If I remember right, the Shermans claimed, the home would have been a disaster in it's construction and design and almost all work poorly executed. Afaik, some of the companies involved didn't survive the disputs and claims settlements and went bankrupt.

I don’t think the murders were for revenge for a conflict that happened so many years earlier. MOO is that there is zero likelihood of that.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Dennis Curry's latest

As far as him saying they never used the front door, I think that's not true. If the papers were dropped off on the front step, doesn't it make sense that they would open the front door to pick them up?

If that is the case, would/could the lock have been broken the day they were murdered?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

dbm

 

[Kerry Winter]

How tall is KW? Do we know?

6’

 

[Kerry Winter]

KW

Pat Brown’s a clown!

 

[ldlager]

MOO based on what we know: I think Barry and Honey had a call scheduled with the lawyer at 9pm. I think it related to estate planning and/or transfer of wealth to Honey from Barry.

I think it’s possible Barry and/or Honey had documents with them for the call, but to our knowledge none were found — that we know of at least. We are aware only of a house inspection report for OC being on the ground.

MOO I think the lawyer wasn’t talking due to confidentiality/privilege issues. Rules are strict around that for lawyers. Whether that is still the case, I don’t know.

Separately but not unrelated, I think the trustees could have stopped Goodmans LLP from running interference on the document production on the basis of privilege and instead given the police access to all of Barry’s emails and calendar. But they chose not to do so. Query whether all of the trustees had equal insight into the nature of those emails/documents that have been suppressed.

MOO

If it is as you suggest, I hope the lawyer has really good security. Because only he knows what the estate plans truly were, and he therefore knows who would have a motive to ensure the estate changes were never made.

 

[Lonicera]

I don’t think the murders were for revenge for a conflict that happened so many years earlier. MOO is that there is zero likelihood of that.

I recognize that such a late revenge may seem unlikely. Examples exist. Here is one:

"The revenge of the cuckold castleman upset the French village of Flavin​

He had returned from the United States to punish his wife's former lover by killing his wife and his two children. The resolution of the news of Valentine's Day relieves the inhabitants of the small Aveyron commune " La vengeance du châtelain cocu a bouleversé le village français de Flavin - Le Temps