CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[Kerry Winter]

<modsnip: religious meme>

Maybe this is a better answer now that the shock from the podcast has worn off a bit.

I hope that the killer or killers are caught and everyone involved in this whole tragedy moves on to something better.

I had hoped you were going to tell the fascinating story of your family origins, and for the most part you did.

I don’t understand being fueled by that much rage that you’d threaten four children of the person you had issues with. As a trustee, Jonathon’s role is to act in the best interests of his father’s estate and follow his wishes and directions. It’s not his place to fight old battles between you and his father. That’s what the courts are for. And it’s now all settled.

This court case ended in 2017, and the Sherman children had nothing to do with it. They were upset by what you were publicly saying then and now you have given them reason to fear for their safety. Can you imagine having both your parents murdered and hearing that broadcast today?

It’s not all settled!

 

[ldlager]

It made me at first worried for you. The interview starts off with the discussion of family tragedies and you were understandably upset.

And the the last few minutes were so shocking that I’ve had to listen to them a few times and I’m still doubting I heard it right.

At the 37:39 mark:
Kathleen Goldhar: ‘…that’s when Kerry says there’s going to be a reckoning, and he goes on to threaten the lives of the four Sherman children…’

Chapter Seven at link: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/cbc-podca...sode/15974553-chapter-seven-my-blood-is-yours

The interview started off and I thought it was interesting to get some more background to the story. A journalist saying she believed you. And she was going to explain why that was to the listeners, and she made some good points.

I am just completely shocked by the ending. I hope no one else is harmed.

Sorry, I have listened to the recording several times, and I do not hear KW threatening the lives of the four Sherman kids. Can you pls provide the time stamp where this is on the tape? The interviewer claims this threat was made, but she never includes it in the tape? Seems most puzzling to me, especially since she is trying to get listeners to her podcast. Frankly in the absence of hearing KW say it, I question the veracity Of her claim.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Sorry, I have listened to the recording several times, and I do not hear KW threatening the lives of the four Sherman kids. Can you pls provide the time stamp where this is on the tape? The interviewer claims this threat was made, but she never includes it in the tape? Seems most puzzling to me, especially since she is trying to get listeners to her podcast. Frankly in the absence of hearing KW say it, I question the veracity Of her claim.

She didn’t air it, so it’s a fair concern.

In the part I indicated Kerry is heard saying “I want the people to know this, if it ever comes down to it….(Kerry’s words fade out and she makes the statement about his threats)…I’ve given them all the chance to come to the table, I’ve extended the olive branch.I want to sit down with them and make peace…”

 

[Lexiintoronto]

View attachment 411529

It’sat

It’s not all settled!

What’s left to settle?

According to your quote, the Sherman children are innocent and undeserving to have past wrongs of their father heaped upon them. Even perceived wrongs.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

<modsnip> It’s not all settled!

Completely honest question KW you may or may not want to share, I believe you are still grieving and are internally confused that you feel such sadness that BS is actually physically gone and you have no connection to your father via BS anymore. Do you think this situation for you, can ever be settled now that Barry is gone?

I sympathize with your experiences, my mother suffered much of what you have, not drugs but at 98lbs would down 20 oz of Jack Daniels straight, just to numb her pain and thoughts. Once all of the individuals who made her life less than loving were deceased she had a nervous breakdown and another 40 years of in and out of depression. She deeply felt all the pain intensified, she did not know what to do with her thoughts. It was not until she was 65 that a doctor finally told her, "your demons are so deeply integrated into your mind when you are low that it would take too long and be too painful to take her in and out of those experiences again to di-sect them all." the decision was made that if any of these thoughts came to mind to put them in a safe in her mind and to let God deal with them, she was to move on and not dwell on these sad overconsuming emotional memories that she can no longer control any outcome from.

I hope you can find a way to heal from within for all of the pain you have been submitted to, not for the Sherman's, not for Barry but for you and your family. You can be the guy who does not make this a generational thing and make sons reap the wrath for a fathers sins, you can be the man you say BS turned out not to be, the better man, a man with integrity, a man you can trust.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Sorry, I have listened to the recording several times, and I do not hear KW threatening the lives of the four Sherman kids. Can you pls provide the time stamp where this is on the tape? The interviewer claims this threat was made, but she never includes it in the tape? Seems most puzzling to me, especially since she is trying to get listeners to her podcast. Frankly in the absence of hearing KW say it, I question the veracity Of her claim.

I’ll drop the subject after this, but I thought about your post more. I respect your view, of course. I’ve also been having trouble with how accurate I think this podcast is with some details about the case that are publicly available.

But note that KW isn’t denying he threatened the Sherman children.

The CBC is standing behind this podcast and imagine if there isn’t a recording of KW threatening the Sherman children? It would make headlines. No idea why his threat isn’t being reported on in MSM. Or why the police didn’t respond to Kathleen G.

I can only guess why they didn’t air him saying the threat. But I think they were right in reporting it to the police.

 

[ldlager]

I’ll drop the subject after this, but I thought about your post more. I respect your view, of course. I’ve also been having trouble with how accurate I think this podcast is with some details about the case that are publicly available.

But note that KW isn’t denying he threatened the Sherman children.

The CBC is standing behind this podcast and imagine if there isn’t a recording of KW threatening the Sherman children? It would make headlines. No idea why his threat isn’t being reported on in MSM. Or why the police didn’t respond to Kathleen G.

I can only guess why they didn’t air him saying the threat. But I think they were right in reporting it to the police.

The podcast states that the journalist reported the threat to the police, but the police never got back to her. I have to wonder if they did in fact follow up with KW and determined there were no threats issued.

 

[Rush4087]

I always wonder if nobody has sat these people down to explain to them that when the Trust decided to sell their father's business, that was the end. Whatever money was obtained from the sale, that was their inheritance, which would have been split between the offspring. The money would've presumably been invested, and hopefully would've earned interest up to the time when the offspring would be old enough to get their shares of the money. As far as I have read, the business was reportedly on a money-losing curve.. which prompted the sale in the first place. It likely would have been worth less if sold a year later than it was sold. They received two offers, one of which happened to be from BS, which was higher than the other offer. The other offer contained no stipulations to give anyone jobs or anything but the purchase price, etc. If stipulations were made when the company was sold to B, how can that be expected to be a forever-thing, continuing on even after a buy-out? Who would they be suing and for what, if the trust company had sold it to the lower bidder?

And what a horrible thing, to demand that no family members were allowed to adopt the orphaned children, even to the point that the mother would have preferred them to each go to four separate adoptive homes. I can't imagine that could possibly have turned out better for them, than a relative who would have had access to the family's money, on the children's behalf, for the children, presumably under the oversight of an independent body.

I disagree with this post. Imo BS co-opted (def: to take or assume for one’s own use), the Winter children’s inheritance (Empire and its successors). Imo he (at a minimum) romanced it out from under RT. I’m sure some people have wondered just how well he and Ulster knew the guys at RT.. I know I have. Whether they knew them or not though, I think it’s very possible that BS misrepresented the condition of Empire and it’s prospects to the (imo unengaged at best) executors and trustees of the Winter estate (Royal Trust). I think Barry was good at that

From KD’s book: “Three days after Beverley died, Sherman wrote a letter to Royal Trust. He had a plan.” You bet he did.

BS claimed “he was anxious to protect the value of said assets for the benefit of the children of Louis and Beverley Winter. He proposed that he would purchase all of his deceased uncle’s assets… […] Sherman gave Royal Trust a twenty four hour time limit to consider his offer.” Three days.. The children were seven, five, four, and three

That offer was rejected, but two years later, when Sherman came back to Toronto, he “had an idea”. “Sherman drove over to Empire Laboratories…”

Then, apparently just by “chatting with people at the company, asking questions about revenues, expenses, and most importantly, product line” (and I guess using his vast business knowledge, experience and acumen), Barry determined that George Wright was “absolutely incompetent when it came to business issues.” The company is on life support

He then apparently convinced Royal Trust of the same. Imo BS got RT to agree to a fire sale price, partly by using an unenforceable “sweetener”. For those who would argue that Royal Trust was not unengaged/ incompetent - using BS’s own description of GW - who put the “incompetent” George Wright in charge of Empire in the first place?

By this time the Winter children (who I guess were nine, seven, six, and five) were living it up with their new foster parents. Btw, jmo, but I don’t think the Winter children should be blamed for their mother’s decision not to allow a relative to raise them

I’m not familiar with all the details of the Winter children’s later legal action against RT, but imo it was RT’s job to protect the children’s assets (incl imo, from people like BS) and (again imo) they failed them miserably. If RT eventually fell for a “sweetener” in the second offer that later turned out to be legally unenforceable when BS left it on the table when he sold Empire (while also being disingenuous (or lying?) in the non-compete clause), they didn’t do a very good job of protecting the children’s assets to begin with. We now know the “sweetener” was worthless.

What kind of sweetener was it? Reportedly, the children were to be able purchase 5 percent of Empire in the future - but did it name a price? Just whose obligation was it to assure (for the children) that the sweetener was enforceable and not just for show?

And as for BS’s sale of Empire? It’s hard to believe BS was handcuffed and unable to protect the Winter children’s assets during the sale. And by then of course, RT was long gone. It just doesn’t seem that BS tried real hard to “protect the value of said assets for the benefit of the children of Louis and Beverley Winter.” Maybe he changed his mind, or forgot. But then again we know how BS felt about altruism. The Serengeti and all that. Every man for himself

Everybody is welcome to their own opinion, but mine is that BS absconded with part of the Winter children’s inheritance (and in the process, changed their future). Then later in life, when the cousins discovered BS’s deception, BS used money and power and lawyers and lawyers and more lawyers to keep from having to make things right (jmo). There was obviously a lot at stake - more even (imo) than the Winter children knew. I can’t think of a more despicable act. Who was it who said that BS was the one person he’d ever met who had absolutely no redeeming quality?

Re: how the Winter cousins might now feel about the Sherman children’s billions? I don’t think any Winter cousin has ever suggested that the Sherman children have stolen anything. That doesn’t mean they don’t see the Sherman children as being in possession of (some, anyway) stolen property.

All jmo

 

[Lexiintoronto]

The podcast states that the journalist reported the threat to the police, but the police never got back to her. I have to wonder if they did in fact follow up with KW and determined there were no threats issued.

I personally think there were threats made, but if they did follow up as you suggested the statements may have been excused in some way. Maybe a medical issue, imo.

It’s a stressful time for many people, but add onto that delving into painful topics to the media when you have PTSD, you may say and do things that you wouldn’t under normal circumstances, imo. But I’m not sure if I’m reading the situation correctly.

 

[NeverPersonal]

Long time listener, first time caller.

This quote by you from Fifth Estate sums it up:
I was betrayed. My cousin hurt me, and now I want to hurt him. - Kerry Winter
You can't hurt dead people Kerry.

 

[jgsmith]

Long time listener, first time caller.

This quote by you from Fifth Estate sums it up:
I was betrayed. My cousin hurt me, and now I want to hurt him. - Kerry Winter
You can't hurt dead people Kerry.

But you can hurt their children, which is exactly what was allegedly said to KG, and the reason for alarm.

 

[dotr]

Small snippet from full transcript at link.
March 28 2023

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/the-no-good-terribly-kind-wonderful-lives-and-tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman-ep-7-transcript-1.6793339

''KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: It's at this point that Kerry's demeanor changes. He becomes incredibly focused and his voice gets louder. It sounds strange, but his eyes actually darken like become scary black. I've never seen anything like it.

SOUNDCLIP
KERRY WINTER: And why I want the people to know this is if it ever comes down to it.
KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: That's when Kerry says that there's going to be a reckoning. And he goes on to threaten the lives of the four Sherman children.

SOUNDCLIP
KERRY WINTER: I've given them all a chance to come to the table. I've extended the olive branch. I want to sit down with them and make peace. My brother Jeffrey is eating out of dumpsters at a shelter. It's not about money. It's about Jonathan sitting with me, man to man, and he says he's sorry to me for what his father did. It's not about money.''

''SOUNDCLIP

UNNAMED SPEAKER: In looking at the autopsy? Just for me. If if they a hands were bound, for instance. Right. He would have to hang her, then bind his hands and get them behind his back. So you'd have to do that before he had the belt, Right. How does that work? I mean, it's very complicated to be able to accomplish that. Is it impossible? No, it's not impossible.''

 

[dotr]

Sorry for posting twice in a row, but just came across a sentence written about an unrelated case in London, Ont. concerning the unsolved murder of a young woman.
The description of the body's positioning was familiar... fwiw, imo rbbm.

Dunleavy, Jacqueline

CIRCUMSTANCES On Tuesday, January 9, 1968, Jacqueline Dunleavy was working at the Stanley Variety Store on Stanley St at Wharncliffe Rd. She finished work at 6:35pm and was last seen walking out the front of the store. At 8:10pm,

canadiancrimeopedia.com

''Jacqueline was on her back in the snow, with her arms straight down along her sides and her legs closed and placed perfectly straight, as though “positioned in a casket for burial.” The care taken to display her body in this “ceremonial, mortuary position” seems to indicate remorse and the need to restore order.''

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Small snippet from full transcript at link.
March 28 2023
View attachment 411839

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/the-no-good-terribly-kind-wonderful-lives-and-tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman-ep-7-transcript-1.6793339

''KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: It's at this point that Kerry's demeanor changes. He becomes incredibly focused and his voice gets louder. It sounds strange, but his eyes actually darken like become scary black. I've never seen anything like it.

SOUNDCLIP
KERRY WINTER: And why I want the people to know this is if it ever comes down to it.
KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: That's when Kerry says that there's going to be a reckoning. And he goes on to threaten the lives of the four Sherman children.

SOUNDCLIP
KERRY WINTER: I've given them all a chance to come to the table. I've extended the olive branch. I want to sit down with them and make peace. My brother Jeffrey is eating out of dumpsters at a shelter. It's not about money. It's about Jonathan sitting with me, man to man, and he says he's sorry to me for what his father did. It's not about money.''

''SOUNDCLIP

UNNAMED SPEAKER: In looking at the autopsy? Just for me. If if they a hands were bound, for instance. Right. He would have to hang her, then bind his hands and get them behind his back. So you'd have to do that before he had the belt, Right. How does that work? I mean, it's very complicated to be able to accomplish that. Is it impossible? No, it's not impossible.''

Thank you for the quote and link to the transcript.

Re: the last paragraph. “He (Barry) would have to hang her, then bind his hands and get them behind his back.”

According to KD, who has seen the crime scene photos and is privy to some details about at least the second autopsies, they don’t know if the Shermans’ wrists were bound in their front or behind them. The wrist bindings were also not found at the scene. So I don’t understand the man’s point. Hopefully it’s cleared up in the next episode.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Small snippet from full transcript at link.
March 28 2023
View attachment 411839

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/the-no-good-terribly-kind-wonderful-lives-and-tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman-ep-7-transcript-1.6793339

''KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: It's at this point that Kerry's demeanor changes. He becomes incredibly focused and his voice gets louder. It sounds strange, but his eyes actually darken like become scary black. I've never seen anything like it.

SOUNDCLIP
KERRY WINTER: And why I want the people to know this is if it ever comes down to it.
KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: That's when Kerry says that there's going to be a reckoning. And he goes on to threaten the lives of the four Sherman children.

SOUNDCLIP
KERRY WINTER: I've given them all a chance to come to the table. I've extended the olive branch. I want to sit down with them and make peace. My brother Jeffrey is eating out of dumpsters at a shelter. It's not about money. It's about Jonathan sitting with me, man to man, and he says he's sorry to me for what his father did. It's not about money.''

''SOUNDCLIP

UNNAMED SPEAKER: In looking at the autopsy? Just for me. If if they a hands were bound, for instance. Right. He would have to hang her, then bind his hands and get them behind his back. So you'd have to do that before he had the belt, Right. How does that work? I mean, it's very complicated to be able to accomplish that. Is it impossible? No, it's not impossible.''

It’s a transcription error, but read KW’s part:

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/the-no-good-terribly-kind-wonderful-lives-and-tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman-ep-7-transcript-1.6793339

:/

 

[dotr]

'' Mar 29, 2023 The No Good, Terribly Kind, Wonderful Lives and Tragic Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman l Weekly
After a notorious 2018 interview on CBC television, Kerry Winter became a familiar figure in the tale of the Shermans’ deaths. “The Cousin Did It” wasn’t just a snappy headline on the cover of The National Enquirer, it also became a favourite theory. Yet Kerry is not a suspect. And all these years later the humiliation, anger, and deep sadness Kerry feels towards his cousin Barry are still right on the surface. How did such a good thing go so bad, and why is Kerry so certain Barry killed Honey then killed himself? Was a man capable of “ripping off little orphans” also capable of killing his own wife? And himself? About The No Good, Terribly Kind, Wonderful Lives and Tragic Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman: News of the mysterious deaths of billionaire Canadian pharma giant Barry Sherman and his philanthropist wife Honey in December 2017 reverberated around the world. Five years later, with no arrests and little news from the police, their deaths remain shrouded in mystery and conspiracy theories, with too many lingering questions. Not just who killed them, but what kind of life do you have to live that when you’re found dead, there are multiple theories, including some involving your own family?''

''Feb 1, 2018
The newest startling details in the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman include a lawsuit, a lie detector and a cousin.''

 

[ldlager]

I disagree with this post. Imo BS co-opted (def: to take or assume for one’s own use), the Winter children’s inheritance (Empire and its successors). Imo he (at a minimum) romanced it out from under RT. I’m sure some people have wondered just how well he and Ulster knew the guys at RT.. I know I have. Whether they knew them or not though, I think it’s very possible that BS misrepresented the condition of Empire and it’s prospects to the (imo unengaged at best) executors and trustees of the Winter estate (Royal Trust). I think Barry was good at that

From KD’s book: “Three days after Beverley died, Sherman wrote a letter to Royal Trust. He had a plan.” You bet he did.

BS claimed “he was anxious to protect the value of said assets for the benefit of the children of Louis and Beverley Winter. He proposed that he would purchase all of his deceased uncle’s assets… […] Sherman gave Royal Trust a twenty four hour time limit to consider his offer.” Three days.. The children were seven, five, four, and three

That offer was rejected, but two years later, when Sherman came back to Toronto, he “had an idea”. “Sherman drove over to Empire Laboratories…”

Then, apparently just by “chatting with people at the company, asking questions about revenues, expenses, and most importantly, product line” (and I guess using his vast business knowledge, experience and acumen), Barry determined that George Wright was “absolutely incompetent when it came to business issues.” The company is on life support

He then apparently convinced Royal Trust of the same. Imo BS got RT to agree to a fire sale price, partly by using an unenforceable “sweetener”. For those who would argue that Royal Trust was not unengaged/ incompetent - using BS’s own description of GW - who put the “incompetent” George Wright in charge of Empire in the first place?

By this time the Winter children (who I guess were nine, seven, six, and five) were living it up with their new foster parents. Btw, jmo, but I don’t think the Winter children should be blamed for their mother’s decision not to allow a relative to raise them

I’m not familiar with all the details of the Winter children’s later legal action against RT, but imo it was RT’s job to protect the children’s assets (incl imo, from people like BS) and (again imo) they failed them miserably. If RT eventually fell for a “sweetener” in the second offer that later turned out to be legally unenforceable when BS left it on the table when he sold Empire (while also being disingenuous (or lying?) in the non-compete clause), they didn’t do a very good job of protecting the children’s assets to begin with. We now know the “sweetener” was worthless.

What kind of sweetener was it? Reportedly, the children were to be able purchase 5 percent of Empire in the future - but did it name a price? Just whose obligation was it to assure (for the children) that the sweetener was enforceable and not just for show?

And as for BS’s sale of Empire? It’s hard to believe BS was handcuffed and unable to protect the Winter children’s assets during the sale. And by then of course, RT was long gone. It just doesn’t seem that BS tried real hard to “protect the value of said assets for the benefit of the children of Louis and Beverley Winter.” Maybe he changed his mind, or forgot. But then again we know how BS felt about altruism. The Serengeti and all that. Every man for himself

Everybody is welcome to their own opinion, but mine is that BS absconded with part of the Winter children’s inheritance (and in the process, changed their future). Then later in life, when the cousins discovered BS’s deception, BS used money and power and lawyers and lawyers and more lawyers to keep from having to make things right (jmo). There was obviously a lot at stake - more even (imo) than the Winter children knew. I can’t think of a more despicable act. Who was it who said that BS was the one person he’d ever met who had absolutely no redeeming quality?

Re: how the Winter cousins might now feel about the Sherman children’s billions? I don’t think any Winter cousin has ever suggested that the Sherman children have stolen anything. That doesn’t mean they don’t see the Sherman children as being in possession of (some, anyway) stolen property.

All jmo

Thank you for articulating your views. The Winter plaintiffs had excellent and very well respected legal counsel in their lawsuits against the Shermans. Nevertheless, the Courts found in favour of BS, and furthermore awarded substantial costs to the Defendant(s). Seems clear to me where the truth likely lies.

 

[ldlager]

Thank you for the quote and link to the transcript.

Re: the last paragraph. “He (Barry) would have to hang her, then bind his hands and get them behind his back.”

According to KD, who has seen the crime scene photos and is privy to some details about at least the second autopsies, they don’t know if the Shermans’ wrists were bound in their front or behind them. The wrist bindings were also not found at the scene. So I don’t understand the man’s point. Hopefully it’s cleared up in the next episode.

LE also dont know or have never stated their wrists were bound BS to BS and HS to HS; or if BS wrists were bound to HS' wrists

 

[Lexiintoronto]

LE also dont know or have never stated their wrists were bound BS to BS and HS to HS; or if BS wrists were bound to HS' wrists

That’s true. I was talking about the orientation: the person who was quoted on the CBC clip suggested Barry’s hands were restrained behind him. I wrote that KD’s sources have said they could tell the Shermans had restraints on their wrists, but at that point they didn’t know what position their hands were in before the restraints were removed by the killer or killers.

ETA: I just remembered that there was official confirmation by LE about the restraints, at least about Barry’s:

“One document provides for the first time confirmation that Barry's wrists had been tied. Pathologists examining his body (both in the official autopsy and one performed by a pathologist hired by the Sherman family) determined that “Bernard was restrained at the wrist.””Dec 23, 2021

The Toronto Star - Breaking News, Toronto News, Ontario News, Canada News › 2021/12/23

Barry and Honey Sherman may have been stalked, police believe | The Star
​

 

[Lexiintoronto]

But you can hurt their children, which is exactly what was allegedly said to KG, and the reason for alarm.

I feel that I’m almost alone in feeling very alarmed by what KW allegedly said to KG.

I’m just going to try to forget I ever heard it and hope everyone involved in the podcast follows up with their call to the TPS.