Canada - Eight bodies found in a marsh, near US border, Tsi Snaihne, Akwesasne, Quebec, 30 March 2023 *POIs sought*

[otto]

I don't think all rowers wear life jackets. As a matter of fact, I find where I live near Rama Reserve, some of the needless deaths that happen in the spring are native teens perishing walking on the lake ice back to the reserve from downtown Orillia because they've always done it. Same with snowmobilers although I've seen less of them in the last couple of years. A lot of the snowmobile deaths in Ontario are in the north where many reservations are.


I doubt they could claim refugee status considering the Safe Third Country Agreement. If you've already been given refugee status in one country you can't shop around again and try it with another.

Canada-U.S. Safe Third Country Agreement - Canada.ca

Policy and Regulations - Canada-U.S. Safe Third Country Agreement

www.canada.ca

My mistake. National rowing teams require inflatable PFDs for each person, but they don't have to be worn.
National Rowing Safety

It's a bit of a mystery to understand why the boat passengers wanted to sneak into the USA on a stormy night.

 

[branmuffin]

My mistake. National rowing teams require inflatable PFDs for each person, but they don't have to be worn.
National Rowing Safety

It's a bit of a mystery to understand why the boat passengers wanted to sneak into the USA on a stormy night.

For whatever reason, I presume the US was more attractive to them. Whether it was the weather, existing family, or job opportunities. I'll guess we'll never know now. It's pretty sad really, especially for the kids. They had no choice.

 

[Cedars]

I don't think the victims were making choices here. IMO, they were following instructions, the smugglers are the ones making these choices.

It seems, from coverage of the deaths in Manitoba of the family from India:
- there are recruiters all over India and presumably elsewhere like Romania, offering easy, guaranteed entry to the US, for a steep price. They promise to take care of all the details: visas and other documents, flights, transport, practically from door to door. This is supplied by a network of many individuals. Eg, someone in Canada, whose job was to take them across the border and deliver them to a waiting driver.
- The recruiters are selling a good job and easy life in the US, enough so the family can send money back home and support their parents/ extended family.
-Everyone in every remote corner of the world knows the US is the land of milk and honey, a ticket to the good life. You just have to get a toehold there. Canada is a remote, cold place no one has ever heard of.
-The whole family comes up with the money to send one of their children/spouse and small children (less likely to be put on the next plane out, if caught), to pioneer this new branch of the family, just like immigrants to the US in the pioneer days.

JMO

Year after death of Indian family at U.S. border, those left behind try to move on - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca

The RCMP has said the family was trying to get into the U.S. during severe winter weather and died from exposure.

globalnews.ca

 

[branmuffin]

I don't think the victims were making choices here. IMO, they were following instructions, the smugglers are the ones making these choices.

It seems, from coverage of the deaths in Manitoba of the family from India:
- there are recruiters all over India and presumably elsewhere like Romania, offering easy, guaranteed entry to the US, for a steep price. They promise to take care of all the details: visas and other documents, flights, transport, practically from door to door. This is supplied by a network of many individuals. Eg, someone in Canada, whose job was to take them across the border and deliver them to a waiting driver.
- The recruiters are selling a good job and easy life in the US, enough so the family can send money back home and support their parents/ extended family.
-Everyone in every remote corner of the world knows the US is the land of milk and honey, a ticket to the good life. You just have to get a toehold there. Canada is a remote, cold place no one has ever heard of.
-The whole family comes up with the money to send one of their children/spouse and small children (less likely to be put on the next plane out, if caught), to pioneer this new branch of the family, just like immigrants to the US in the pioneer days.

JMO

Year after death of Indian family at U.S. border, those left behind try to move on - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca

The RCMP has said the family was trying to get into the U.S. during severe winter weather and died from exposure.

globalnews.ca

I doubt it if they were in possession of their own identification documents.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I doubt it if they were in possession of their own identification documents.

Didn't one of the adult victims have a child's identification papers?

 

[branmuffin]

Didn't one of the adult victims have a child's identification papers?

One of the Romanian parents was holding passports for the two deceased children. They may have gotten rid of their own documentation.

I remember years ago, there was a boat that dumped a bunch of illegals off the coast of Nova Scotia and they waded ashore. In the process they got rid of their documentation so they couldn't be shipped back. The problem was when the tide came in a lot of the passports came in with it. They claimed to be refugees from India yet some of the passports recovered included documents from Germany and the Netherlands so they'd already made it to a country of refuge.

Edited to add a link:

170 Reputed India Refugees Come Ashore in Canada

More than 170 people claiming to be political and religious refugees from India landed near a tiny Nova Scotia fishing village in lifeboats Sunday after a voyage they said began two months ago.

www.latimes.com

 

[dotr]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/akwesasne-community-river-deaths-1.6798695

''Akwesasne officials have named two people — including one man holding two children's passports — who were among eight bodies recovered this week from the St. Lawrence River, near the Quebec-Ontario border.

In a statement on Saturday, the Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service said one man has been identified as 28-year-old Florin Iordache. Police said he had two Canadian passports in his possession — one for a two-year-old child and another for a one-year-old infant whose bodies were recovered.

One woman has also been identified as 28-year-old Cristina (Monalisa) Zenaida Iordache.

Police previously said they believed the four to be members of a Romanian family who were attempting to cross into the United States near the Kanien'kehá:ka community of Akwesasne — which straddles Quebec, Ontario and New York state.

On Saturday, police said that four Indian nationals, who they also believed were attempting to cross into the U.S., have not been identified.''

 

[annpats]

Why do they want to get to the US that badly if they are already safe in Canada? As an American I have always been under the impression that Canada is safer, nicer, and free healthcare.

Exactly! But perhaps they'd heard about the 'American Dream' and Canada wasn't working out too well for them?
But sometimes the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Lots of Romanians come to the UK for work, although I don't think life in Romania is too bad at all, unless you're one of the very poor. They managed to get to Canada though. But sometimes people are pushed by traffickers and by their own economic dreams.

 

[annpats]

I remember years ago, there was a boat that dumped a bunch of illegals off the coast of Nova Scotia and they waded ashore. In the process they got rid of their documentation so they couldn't be shipped back. The problem was when the tide came in a lot of the passports came in with it. They claimed to be refugees from India yet some of the passports recovered included documents from Germany and the Netherlands so they'd already made it to a country of refuge.

We have a huge problem with illegal immigrants in the UK, and most of them aren't refugees but economic chancers who've paid traffickers thousands.
They come from Africa and Asia, but go through 8, 9, 10 sad European countries before ending up in France and treating to cross the 22 mile channel by rubber boat.

 

[otto]

I don't think the victims were making choices here. IMO, they were following instructions, the smugglers are the ones making these choices.

It seems, from coverage of the deaths in Manitoba of the family from India:
- there are recruiters all over India and presumably elsewhere like Romania, offering easy, guaranteed entry to the US, for a steep price. They promise to take care of all the details: visas and other documents, flights, transport, practically from door to door. This is supplied by a network of many individuals. Eg, someone in Canada, whose job was to take them across the border and deliver them to a waiting driver.
- The recruiters are selling a good job and easy life in the US, enough so the family can send money back home and support their parents/ extended family.
-Everyone in every remote corner of the world knows the US is the land of milk and honey, a ticket to the good life. You just have to get a toehold there. Canada is a remote, cold place no one has ever heard of.
-The whole family comes up with the money to send one of their children/spouse and small children (less likely to be put on the next plane out, if caught), to pioneer this new branch of the family, just like immigrants to the US in the pioneer days.

JMO

Year after death of Indian family at U.S. border, those left behind try to move on - Winnipeg | Globalnews.ca

The RCMP has said the family was trying to get into the U.S. during severe winter weather and died from exposure.

globalnews.ca

I wouldn't go so far as to say that Canada is a cold, remote place that no one has heard of. Canada is the second largest country in the world after Russia, so hopefully everyone studies a little geography to learn that much.

Canada offers a few cold remote opportunities as well as beautiful beaches, with some cities offering 333 days of sunshine per year. It's not all bad. New Canadians can choose a climate that suits them.

People who want to live in the USA after having two children in Canada (with Canadian passports) don't need to pay smugglers to cross the border. They can apply to enter the country legally, just like all the other Canadians, or they can be satisfied with the beautiful country and culture that is provided. Breaking the law and risking life suggests that something else is going on ... perhaps debt? I'm curious why they wanted to sneak out of the country.

 

[branmuffin]

We have a huge problem with illegal immigrants in the UK, and most of them aren't refugees but economic chancers who've paid traffickers thousands.
They come from Africa and Asia, but go through 8, 9, 10 sad European countries before ending up in France and treating to cross the 22 mile channel by rubber boat.

I'm from England and have a sister who still lives there. She said that so many people coming from the EU, mostly eastern Europeans were snatching up a lot of the jobs, especially those in the housing industry because they were willing to work for much lower wages. I presume since the UK left the EU most of those people would eventually have to leave.

It's a problem all over the world not just in the US and Canada. It's frustrating and sad that so many of these countries seem unable to get themselves out of poverty.

 

[otto]

It seems that Romanian and Indian families frequently attempt to enter the USA illegally by crossing the St. Lawrence River. I find that surprising.

"Family members told CBC News Saturday they hadn't heard from the family in a week and that they knew they were planning to come to the U.S. to join family in Orlando, Fla.

The family in Orlando also confirmed to CBC News that Florin was traveling with his wife and two children. They now want to find a way to repatriate their bodies to their hometown in Romania.
...

On Saturday, police said that four Indian nationals, who they also believed were attempting to cross into the U.S., have not been identified. A source with the police in India told CBC News that those four people are a family from Gujarat — the same state in India as the family who died trying to cross the Canada-U.S. border in Manitoba in 2022.

The source said the family members include a man in his 50s and a woman and man in their 20s. The age and gender of the fourth Indian national is unknown at this time."
...

Authorities say the territory's unique geography makes it a popular spot for human smugglers, with police making 48 separate interceptions this year. Most of those who try to enter the U.S. through the area are of Indian and Romanian descent."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/akwesasne-community-river-deaths-1.6798695

 

[branmuffin]

It seems that Romanian and Indian families frequently attempt to enter the USA illegally by crossing the St. Lawrence River. I find that surprising.

"Family members told CBC News Saturday they hadn't heard from the family in a week and that they knew they were planning to come to the U.S. to join family in Orlando, Fla.​

​

The family in Orlando also confirmed to CBC News that Florin was traveling with his wife and two children. They now want to find a way to repatriate their bodies to their hometown in Romania.​

...​

​

On Saturday, police said that four Indian nationals, who they also believed were attempting to cross into the U.S., have not been identified. A source with the police in India told CBC News that those four people are a family from Gujarat — the same state in India as the family who died trying to cross the Canada-U.S. border in Manitoba in 2022.​

​

The source said the family members include a man in his 50s and a woman and man in their 20s. The age and gender of the fourth Indian national is unknown at this time."​

...​

​

Authorities say the territory's unique geography makes it a popular spot for human smugglers, with police making 48 separate interceptions this year. Most of those who try to enter the U.S. through the area are of Indian and Romanian descent."​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/akwesasne-community-river-deaths-1.6798695

It is odd that most are from those two countries. And if the family of the Romanians who lived in Florida were expecting them, did they know they were going to cross illegally? Why not just cross and stay there and hope no one notices for a while instead of taking such a dangerous risk?

 

[whiterhino]

It is odd that most are from those two countries. And if the family of the Romanians who lived in Florida were expecting them, did they know they were going to cross illegally? Why not just cross and stay there and hope no one notices for a while instead of taking such a dangerous risk?

The smuggler charged in the Manitoba case also happens to be from Florida FWIW.

 

[dotr]

Police identify two of eight migrants pulled from water near Akwesasne, Que.

The bodies of five adults and a child were found on Thursday, and the bodies of a second child and an adult woman were found on Friday.

www.thestar.com

''in a separate Facebook post released on Saturday, Police said they are still looking for 30-year-old Akwesasne resident Casey Oakes, who was last seen Wednesday night operating a boat that was found next to the migrants’ bodies the following day, but they have not made any direct connections between Oakes and the deaths. Some items of clothing that belong to Oakes have also been found, police added.

The update also noted that police found a male inside a cabin on St. Regis Island, but can’t say yet whether he’s connected to the ongoing investigation.

“The local waterways are continued to be searched. Police estimate that there are eight kilometres of waterway to search,” police wrote.''

 

[branmuffin]

The smuggler charged in the Manitoba case also happens to be from Florida FWIW.

His trial was supposed to start July 18 2022 but I can't find any details of it. Steve Shand 47.

 

[dotr]

His trial was supposed to start July 18 2022 but I can't find any details of it. Steve Shand 47.

Canada/US border - Patel family died from exposure, human smuggler Steve Shand charged, 20 Jan 2022

I have found numerous articles from last March stating that a trial was set for the summer of 2022, but I have not been able to find anything saying that a trial ever took place. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/human-smuggling-steve-shand-patel-family-1.6402614 I hope Shand is...

www.websleuths.com

 

[otto]

It is odd that most are from those two countries. And if the family of the Romanians who lived in Florida were expecting them, did they know they were going to cross illegally? Why not just cross and stay there and hope no one notices for a while instead of taking such a dangerous risk?

Exactly! Go there legally and stay illegally. What is the barrier to entering the USA from Canada for vacation?

The children are Canadian, but the parents are Romanian who have family in Florida. If the Romanian parents have a home and jobs in Canada, it's easier to believe that they will return to Canada after vacation.

I find it odd that the family in Florida wants the two Canadian children and two Romanian adults (who lived in Canada for at least 2-3 years) to be sent to Romania? Why not Florida, or the Canadian indigenous land where they died? They could put a nice memorial on the location reminding people of the perils of illegal activity, or is the Florida family going to raise money to ship the bodies to Romania?

India surprises me. There are so many people from India emigrating to other parts of the world. Why would they think that it's better to sneak into the USA via Canada rather than enter on the basis of 2 week vacation and not go home. Same end result.

Criminal record complicates border crossing into the USA for everyone, including Canadians. Is that a factor here?

I don't understand why they couldn't fake that they were on vacation, rather than pay a coyote on a stormy dark night with two babies.

 

[annpats]

I'm from England and have a sister who still lives there. She said that so many people coming from the EU, mostly eastern Europeans were snatching up a lot of the jobs, especially those in the housing industry because they were willing to work for much lower wages. I presume since the UK left the EU most of those people would eventually have to leave.

I think most of them came a few years before the UK left the EU, so were able to apply for permanent residency or a British passport, which I think you can do after just 6 years here!!!

Although I don't know how harder it'll be for illegal newcomers now the UK has left the EU, there seems to be no shortage of people from all over the world coming here, smuggling themselves in trucks and boats from France.

Sadly, the UK is a small island and are full to bursting already.

The British government rarely deports the people who come, they 'disappear' or have a constant appeal process.....hence it encourages these people to come even more, knowing they'll probably stay forever.

 

[Vern]

His trial was supposed to start July 18 2022 but I can't find any details of it. Steve Shand 47.

I found this article (from January 2023) about a pair of arrests that occured in India as a result of the Manitoba case. The last para mentions the upcoming Shand trial as scheduled to begin in Fergus Falls on 17 April; So trial in Minnesota starting in 15 days.

Mandlik told the Canadian Press the probe found that conspirators in Canada and America worked with agents in India.
...
Shand was indicted on human smuggling charges and faces trial in Fergus Falls on April 17.

Two arrested in India in deaths of family found frozen at Canada border a year ago

The two men are accused of culpable homicide not amounting to murder, attempt at culpable homicide, human trafficking and criminal conspiracy, an Indian official told the Canadian Press.

www.startribune.com