CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

Discussion in '1990's Missing' started by sillybilly, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. eyesonly

    eyesonly Active Member

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    Track, here is the tennis schedule answer I received from RB:

    1. There was no schedule;
    2. If courts were open you played and if not, you wrote your name in on a chalk board and waited;
    3. The only reason anyone would go there was to play;
    4. You needed a summer membership and EB didn't have one;
    5. We only played the week before because the supervisor was a personal friend of mine ;
    6. There was a time limit if someone was waiting;
    7. When I showed up at around 7:00 pm there weren't many people there;

    Some other info:

    1. The only person she would have played with was me (ironically, the police argued we'd broken up)
    2. Liz never took her racket, had no tennis balls and wasn't dressed for tennis and these things weren't in her car;
    3. The supervisor was there that night, knew Liz well, and said he never saw her or me;
    4. Her car wasn't parked near the tennis courts;
     
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  2. Track

    Track New Member

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    Thanks. I would like to know the location that RB witnessed EB's car parked in, and the time. A sketch, or a description of where on campus the lot was located would be helpful.
    There seem to be only 4 possiblities: 1. EB lied to her parent about her reason for leaving the house, perhaps in order to leave early without being questioned. 2. EB never left her home and someone in the family is lying. 3. EB left her home but never visited the tennis court that day. 4. EB attended the tennis court with no intention to play. Her lack of a membership and lack of tennis attire support this. When she saw that no one was there, she left without being noticed by the supervisor. At that point, she was possibly met by her assailant and lured or forcibly taken, elsewhere. This 4th possibility follows the theory that she was lured there in the first place. It would have been be easy for someone to call her home and say that she was on the tennis schedule and ask if she still wanted that time. If that person gave no details, EB would naturally be curious, especially since she was likely aware that the tennis schedule at UTSC was only a chalkboard.
    This theory suggests pre-meditated murder. The fact that her body was never found also suggests pre-meditation; someone thought carefully about how to hide the body.
     
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  3. eyesonly

    eyesonly Active Member

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    Track asked: "I would like to know the location that RB witnessed EB's car parked in, and the time"

    Hey Track.
    Google: Military Trail and old Kingston Rd (Toronto)
    Go to street view and go west on old Kingston Rd down the hill. At the bottom of the hill just after you cross over the bridge, the lot will be on the north side of the road (to your right). Should be in plain site.
    RB saw the car at 6:45pm as he was driving by to go to his workout.
    There was a witness who testified she saw the car there at about 6:20-6:25pm as she pulled in to go for a walk with her mother. She went right up to the car she said because of the fingers she saw. She then says the car was still there when her and her mother left the lot at 7pm.
    RB left the area after 7pm and says the car was still there.
    This is not a campus lot. It is a public lot.
     
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  4. Snively

    Snively Active Member

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    I don't think there is much doubt that she went to the tennis courts or that area to meet someone. Someone that knew the campus or worked there. EG in other words.
     
  5. Track

    Track New Member

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    Or PBT, possibly with KHT. In the book "No Claim to Mercy" the author states a witness saw a woman who looked like EB with a man & 2 other women in vicinity of the tennis courts that day. Ideal number for doubles tennis. The author also notes PBT confessed he reclined the passenger seat when he kidnapped French & Mahffy, while threatening them with a knife. Seat was found reclined in EB's car. PBT knew the campus well. He graduated from there.
     
  6. Snively

    Snively Active Member

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    It's not Bernardo. He would have told long ago where to find Liz's body if he knew, to get better conditions or something in prison. Don't forget, he still thinks he'll get out of prison and this would be a huge card to play if he had it.
     
  7. Track

    Track New Member

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    I think he did try to play that card. Years ago, when LE asked him in a prison interview about EB, he replied "the elephant in the room is...that's 25 [years] to life." The interview is on youtube. This proves nothing, as we know he is super egotistical, so it can be read as a bluff. Or not.
     
  8. Track

    Track New Member

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    LE apparently did not respond to him with any offer. So he could take it no further.
     
  9. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    *IF* it is Bernardo, it might be his first murder.

    I can’t find the link now that I need it, but for some serial killers the first murder is coveted. They’ll keep that information for themselves no matter what, but will tell you all about the subsequent attacks and murders.
     
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  10. eyesonly

    eyesonly Active Member

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    I would like to hear people's thoughts if evidence were to come to the surface that the police actually had surveillance on EB's car as of Thursday June 21st, 1990, before RB went in for his first interview as a 'witness' later that same evening.
     
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  11. SnoopCat

    SnoopCat Member

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    I would assume if it were footage of RB it would surely have come up during trial.
     
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  12. SnoopCat

    SnoopCat Member

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    Ok, I misunderstood Eyes comment and I don’t know how to edit a reply.

    It never sat right with me that LE couldn’t find the car before the brother did. I even wonder if they told him how to find it after they were done with their surveillance.
     
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  13. eyesonly

    eyesonly Active Member

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    Yes they would have snoopcat, I fully agree with you.
    If there's no footage of RB going to the car or getting the body, but they have surveillance on the car as of Thurs and the biggest part of the Crown's prosecution and conviction is that they have a witness who sees RB in the car up in PT Perry on Friday morning, supposedly on his way back from disposing of the body.
    Hmmmmmm.
     
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  14. eyesonly

    eyesonly Active Member

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    I'm glad you didn't edit your first post snoopcat because it is an important point.
    And again in this post your thoughts are right on point. Imo
     
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  15. SnoopCat

    SnoopCat Member

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    if said surveillance exists, it would be a way to determine when the blood was deposited in the back of the car.

    If the car was stationary, it wasn’t in PP on Friday.

    If the car moved, the person(s) who moved it would be well documented. And if it were RB who moved it, it too would have been argued at trial.

    Eyes, is there more details about the surveillance you can share with us at this time?
     
  16. eyesonly

    eyesonly Active Member

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    Sorry Snoopcat, all I hypothetically have is they had the car on Thursday.

    And things are only well documented until there is a need for it not to be documented at all.
     
  17. Snively

    Snively Active Member

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    There are still those within the prosecutors office and some police who believe Liz was killed on the night of Tuesday June 19th and her body moved late on the 19th or early Wednesday June 20th. The sighting of her car at Haugen's BBQ in Port Perry at 5:30 am - 6:30 am by JE should not be discounted.

    Of course that is not the timeline the police went with during the trial but as I said, more than a few prosecutors and police disagreed with the theory presented in the trial. The timeline of the 19th and 20th completely fits as I've stated in previous posts.

    An unknown witness supposedly saw her car being parked across from 3R Auto Body on the morning of the 20th and an employee from 3R says the car was there for three days (20, 21, 22). However, a lady who walked her dog in the area says the car was NOT there at 11:00 PM on Thursday the 21st or Friday the 22nd at 5:45 AM. I can't recall if anyone else from 3R saw the car, but I find it odd a mechanic wouldn't notice it when they were moving cars around on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. Which is correct? Any? All of them? Did someone move the car on Thursday after 3R closed and brought it back after 5:45 AM on Friday but before 3R opened?

    That said, it wouldn't surprise me at all the police had the car under surveillance on the Thursday. If it was though, that means that the dog walking witness is incorrect. Now why anyone would come back to the car AFTER her body was disposed of, makes absolutely no sense at all. It doesn't mean it couldn't happen, it just makes no sense.

    I think the car was parked at 3R just prior to them opening on Wednesday the 20th and it never moved until it was found on Friday afternoon.
     
  18. Snively

    Snively Active Member

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    This wasn't a planned murder. If it was, her car would have been left at one of the transit lots in the area, and the assumption would be she just ran away and that would have essentially been the end of the investigation.
     
  19. eyesonly

    eyesonly Active Member

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    Snively is in quotes:
    "An unknown witness supposedly saw her car being parked across from 3R Auto Body on the morning of the 20th"
    ------ this was a complete red herring on the part of the police. There was no witness. They were trying get RB to think someone saw him park the car.

    " The sighting of her car at Haugen's BBQ in Port Perry at 5:30 am - 6:30 am by JE should not be discounted."
    ----- which shows RB is innocent because he was at home when Mrs B phoned that morning around 6:20am. The Crown has admitted he couldn't have been in PT Perry at this time. This is why they moved their theory to Friday morning.

    "I think the car was parked at 3R just prior to them opening on Wednesday the 20th and it never moved until it was found on Friday afternoon."
    ----- agreed.
    But does anyone understand what the Crown has done by prosecuting someone on a knowingly false theory and bringing police and civilian witnesses to the stand knowing they are committing perjury.
    What they did was absolutely criminal and there should be no room for allowance for that type of behaviour in our system.
    This isn't Nazi Germany for God sakes.

    "but I find it odd a mechanic wouldn't notice it when they were moving cars around on Wednesday, Thursday and Friday."
    ------ oh they seen it. It was actually the 3r owner who actually noticed it Wed morning first. Employees asked if it was a car they were to be working on. The 3r secretary watched to see if the car had moved from day to day because after a certain amount of stagnant days not moving she calls to have it towed away. And that's how she knows it never moved because it never changed positions in anyway. They had problems with people abandoning cars there and she has had to have them towed away before.

    "Now why anyone would come back to the car AFTER her body was disposed of, makes absolutely no sense at all."
    ----- exactly. And the detectives never believed it for one second that this would happen. This is what the Crown wanted and they made it happen.


     
  20. SnoopCat

    SnoopCat Member

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    Quote from a newspaper article:
    "The forensics experts told Raybould that there was too much blood in the car for a body that had been left outside for days, the note allegedly states. If a body had been put into the car two to three days after death, it would have left a strong odour and blood stains would have been darker in colour, not bright red as the police found them."

    The forensic examiner noted that the blood in the car was less than 2 days old. If the car arrived on the lot across from 3R on the Wednesday, and had been under surveillance on the Thursday and Friday, then how did the blood get there?
     

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