CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

Discussion in '1990's Missing' started by Sillybilly, Oct 21, 2015.

  1. eyesonly

    eyesonly Former Member

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    Bradfordsleuth wrote:
    It is really, really sad to know that there were tips made in this case that were never followed up on....especially if it lends any credibility to the person who reported the 401 sighting. If he was credible and the prints matched with what he saw, then there is very likely something to it.


    The only people that knew about this sighting for sure was Mr and Mrs Bain, and the Lead investigator Raybould. Most likely the other lead investigator Reesor and the Crown would have known but that's just an assumption on my part.
    No one else knew about it until some time after the conviction when the witness got in contact with RB's P.I.
    This 401 witness first went to the Bain home to tell them about the sighting and they gave him Raybould's number to call. Mrs Bain wanted to go and get a picture of RB to see if it was him but the witness said he didn't want to risk contaminating his sighting by viewing a picture of RB.

    This witness's name even appears in the Bain personal phone book with the notation
    "saw Liz's car".
     
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  2. bradfordsleuth

    bradfordsleuth Well-Known Member

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    Gosh.....I can't imagine being in that situation.

    The witness would forever be replaying in his mind what he saw, even today.

    So if this 401 witness IS more credible than I originally gave thought to.....and this sighting was PRIOR to the sighting of EB in the passenger seat of her own car during the argument, then I really do believe that she must have been left very close to where her car was parked.

    I am having trouble deciding what I think happened. Was she attacked and then disposed of somewhere right close by and then the car gets parked in the lot?

    It would have still be fairly light out until at least 9PM.....or even later (being so close to summer solstice) so it would have needed to be done quickly so as not to be seen.

    A dumpster comes to mind, and could explain why she was not ever found if the contents was picked up the next day, or before her car was found.

    Were there any landfill searches that you know of?

    JMO and speculating
     
  3. eyesonly

    eyesonly Former Member

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    Bradfordsleuth wrote: So if this 401 witness IS more credible than I originally gave thought to.....and this sighting was PRIOR to the sighting of EB in the passenger seat of her own car during the argument, then I really do believe that she must have been left very close to where her car was parked.

    Things that makes this a credible sighting, imo,
    1) he saw EB in the passenger seat of her own car, with a male driving it. He would have had no clue who's car it was that night.
    2) he saw what looked liked to be an argument between the two, with what looked liked the male possibly hitting EB.
    3) his end time of his time range of his sighting is clearly before the 3r witness's beginning of his/her time frame.
    4) he would have no clue about the details of the 3r witness's sighting yet describes the same events, and same placements of the occupants.
    5) the TPS forwarded many witness sightings that were post 7pm of the 19th that were clearly unreasonable to be true sightings yet this 401 sighting miraculously never made the light of day.

    Imo, the 401 sighting was never disclosed because it backed up the 3r auto sighting of the same night and by the time the 401 witness came forward, they were in deep and fully committed to arresting and convicting RB of this disappearance, and they knew it would be extremely difficult for a jury to dismiss two sightings like this at a time when it was fully conceited that RB had an iron clad alibi for this time period. Getting the jury to dismiss one sighting is much easier for the Crown than two that coincide with each other.

    Bradfordsleuth, I don't recall any landfill site searches ever being mentioned.

    It's also possible that the person responsible came back later with his own or another vehicle and moved her to somewhere in that vehicle.
    Because it was fairly light out still, if the 401 and 3r auto witnesses are to be believed, it's possible the person may not want to have driven the body anywhere at that time for fear of being seen and laid her body on the back floor, then coming back later that night after say midnight at least, and moving her then, in either EB's own car or another vehicle.

    Jmo and speculation

    Keep going bradfordsleuth, very often the answers are found in the right questions.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  4. bradfordsleuth

    bradfordsleuth Well-Known Member

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    I can get on board with what you are saying regarding the credibility of the sightings and WHY TPS would want them buried. It makes sense considering the tunnel vision TPS seemed to have when it came to RB.

    The fact that two different unconnected witnesses both reported seeing EB in the passenger seat of her car definitely makes me think that these independent sightings trump anything else that was reported. I am quickly changing my mind about my prior musings.

    My thoughts about her being left for a bit and then moved in darkness are this: I think that there would be more biological evidence of her being deceased in the vehicle had she been left there for any length of time, based on my past research of what happens to a body after death.

    I have a feeling that she was moved very quickly after she died. But that's JMO.

    Since you are encouraging more questions.....I have a couple more......;)

    Have you any thoughts you would care to share regarding the money that EB withdrew from the bank that afternoon?

    The withdrawal may just be a red herring....or perhaps EB was meeting with someone to settle a debt and it turned ugly? $80.00 sticks in my mind as the amount....is that right? Certainly not an amount to kill over.....but people have killed for less.

    Back in the early 90's to the best of my recollection, if I was to withdraw $$ on a Tuesday, it was to go see a movie or to go for a wing night. Although, back then, it was $ 2.50 Tuesday for a movie entrance and only 0.10 cents for wings. ;)

    Was EB ever known to babysit for any families in her neighbourhood that you are aware of? Or tutor any students?

    Have you ever seen any photos, outside of those published in msm, of her vehicle as it was left parked? Specifically, I am interested in knowing whether or not tire tracks were visible in the earth around her car. In the photo I was looking at, it looked almost sandy around her car. It should have been relatively simple for LE to determine if it had been parked and then moved based on the imprints.

    Thank you for posting the info you have and for indulging my interest by replying to my questions.

    Edited to add in the requisite JMO and speculation only
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
  5. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    I’d have to go back through the threads, but there were landfill sites searched (@Snively may have listed them, iirc).

    In RB’s statement to police he said that when he spoke to EB that day by phone, he asked her if she wanted him to order a set of his grad photos for her.

    What was the price for a set of grad photos? (Just asking).

    She had $65, or so, left in her wallet they found at home, iirc.
     
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  6. bradfordsleuth

    bradfordsleuth Well-Known Member

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    Thank you !

    The $ is a non-starter then.

    I am interested in those landfill searches. Will do some homework.

    I will go back through the first thread and re-read so as not to be redundant with my questions.
     
  7. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    I found the post from @Snively — post #528

    CANADA - Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2
     
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  8. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    The money is important, IMO. I just don’t know why.

    She had to have returned home after 3:45 when she made the withdrawal. According to her mother, she changed clothes and went out again, leaving her wallet, all her cards and ID, and possibly having at least $15 in her pocket.
     
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  9. eyesonly

    eyesonly Former Member

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    Lexiintoronto wrote:
    In RB’s statement to police he said that when he spoke to EB that day by phone, he asked her if she wanted him to order a set of his grad photos for her
    .

    Hey Lexi, which statement did this occur in.
    Thanks.
     
  10. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    I’ll find it...it might take a while because of my internet connection.
     
  11. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Making notes as I search.

    The gear shift was entered into evidence. (2836)

    (2843) Driver’s seat had a seat cover (entered into evidence?)

    (3428) RB statement to A.J. Warr. He had received the proofs of his graduation photos and asked her if she wanted a copy. (Phone call with EB on June 19th).
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  12. eyesonly

    eyesonly Former Member

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    There was $30 left found in EB's wallet.
     
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  13. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Sorry if I was mistaken—$65 is always stuck in my head.

    ETA: If she was carrying $50 that seems like a lot for a student at that time, IMO. Especially without a wallet.

    I was a university student at that time and worked through school. I wouldn’t withdraw or carry much money because I’d be more apt to spend it unwisely. $50 back then seems like $100+ to me now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2020
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  14. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    I’m too late to edit my posts, but RB said his mother was going to order a set of his graduation photos and asked EB if she wanted one.

    (No mention of ordering any.)

    This stayed with me because I don’t understand why EB didn’t go to his convocation or the ball. And then he asked her if she wanted his grad photo.
     
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  15. eyesonly

    eyesonly Former Member

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    Lexiintoronto wrote:
    This stayed with me because I don’t understand why EB didn’t go to his convocation or the ball. And then he asked her if she wanted his grad photo.


    EB was waiting for RB at his car when he came out of the convocation I believe it was.
    iirr, she gave him a watch.
    I think she had to either work, or had a class.
     
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  16. eyesonly

    eyesonly Former Member

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    Making a correction to this post as I've asked RB about the Ball and the Convocation.

    He says EB had a class on the night of the "Ball" (which was more like a small get together), and she was waiting for him at his car afterwards when he came out.

    He says EB told him she had to work on the day of his graduation and that she really didn't like being in crowds.
     
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  17. eyesonly

    eyesonly Former Member

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    Bradfordsleuth wrote in italics:
    Have you any thoughts you would care to share regarding the money that EB withdrew from the bank that afternoon?

    The withdrawal may have been in relation to her brother's birthday which was the next day on the 20th. Or it may have been in relation to the mystery lady that was with her at the time.

    The withdrawal may just be a red herring....or perhaps EB was meeting with someone to settle a debt and it turned ugly? $80.00 sticks in my mind as the amount....is that right? Certainly not an amount to kill over.....but people have killed for less.

    Yes it was for $80, and $30 was found in her wallet as the story goes. The withdrawal may certainly not have anything to do with her disappearance, but it is an anomaly that needs to be answered. Why is there $50 missing and did she spend it on something or give it to someone. Needs to be answered.

    Back in the early 90's to the best of my recollection, if I was to withdraw $$ on a Tuesday, it was to go see a movie or to go for a wing night. Although, back then, it was $ 2.50 Tuesday for a movie entrance and only 0.10 cents for wings. ;)

    10 cent wings, oh those were the days lol. As I stated above, it was her brother's birthday the next day. They would have been the same age for one month until EB's bday in July. It was her parents anniversary the day before on the 18th. And iirc , the Lido motel was $50 a night at that time.

    Was EB ever known to babysit for any families in her neighbourhood that you are aware of? Or tutor any students?

    Tutor students, not that I'm aware of. Babysitting, I believe was one of her jobs she work for a place who would call her to go to a certain home to babysit when needed. I believe she was due to work for this service on the Wednesday as I think they phoned the Bain home on that day looking for her. Please don't quote me on that, I'm pretty sure that's the case, but I'm just flying off the top of my head here. If anyone would like a positive answer on that, I will get it.

    Have you ever seen any photos, outside of those published in msm, of her vehicle as it was left parked? Specifically, I am interested in knowing whether or not tire tracks were visible in the earth around her car. In the photo I was looking at, it looked almost sandy around her car. It should have been relatively simple for LE to determine if it had been parked and then moved based on the imprints.

    It was a sandyish area but it was a pretty hard surface as well. The material wouldn't have left obvious tire indentation marks as you might be thinking. The forensics said there were no visible tire or footprints around the vehicle. And it had started to rain that afternoon at some point so some of the evidence was probably not detectable.

    Thank you for posting the info you have and for indulging my interest by replying to my questions.

    No problem, happy to oblige.
    Sorry for the delay bradfordsleuth, I just realized I didn't reply to your post.
     
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  18. eyesonly

    eyesonly Former Member

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    Lexiintoronto wrote:
    She had to have returned home after 3:45 when she made the withdrawal. According to her mother, she changed clothes and went out again, leaving her wallet, all her cards and ID, and possibly having at least $15 in her pocket.


    Also according to her mother, EB wasn't carrying anything with her when she went in the house the last time nor was she carrying anything when she left the last time.
    EB withdrawals $80 using her bank card, how does the bank card end up back at the house if she wasn't carrying her wallet into the house after the withdrawal?
     
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  19. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Not to split hairs, but I looked back: it was EB’s mother who testified that she found $15 remaining in EB’s wallet. (587)

    There must be a police report or testimony with an itemized list of what was found in her wallet and book bag.
     
  20. Lexiintoronto

    Lexiintoronto Well-Known Member

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    Pockets? I have no idea how big the wallet was. Also, she could have left with just her car keys and bank card and put the card and money back into her wallet. Or her mother didn’t notice. (?)

    Her mother also testified that EB didn’t like to carry a purse unless it was to something formal.

    EB may have had $65 with her when she finally left—why?

    ETA: If she had $65 and it was close to both her parents’ anniversary and her brother’s birthday, maybe she went out with the intention to purchase gifts?

    It would be helpful to know what her bank withdrawal patterns were like. And if she had any plans for the weekend of her disappearance.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2020

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