CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough, Ont, 19 June 1990 #2

GlasgowSmile

New Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
14
How old does a case have to be to be considered "historical"? Is that being used interchangeably with cold case now? When I think of historical remains, I think of native peoples or settlers.

It would appear based on the few articles I read that they use the term for cold cases as well. One of the articles I read, and I am sorry I cannot remember which one, said that it could mean that it's a case that could be two years old or 20 or more years old but essentially that the case poses no danger to the community.

Will be interesting to see how it unfolds regardless - and hopefully someone somewhere will be getting some much needed answers.

I know that there has always been the Port Perry theory surrounding this case, but wondered if maybe a little closer to the 401, but still the "country" at the time may have been more plausible. There are rivers in this area, along with a ton of marshes and even a small Lake in the very area being referred to in the article (within Camp Samac). No real working theory or anything this whole thing just got me kind of thinking about it as a possibility i suppose.
 

Woodland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
4,498
Reaction score
1,835
Nov 15 2021
CityNews
''This week on Tracking a Killer: The Cold Case Files, CityNews reporters Fil Martino and Madison Fitzpatrick take a look at the unsolved disappearance and murder of 22-year-old Elizabeth Bain.

Bain was a student at the University of Toronto’s Scarborough Campus when she vanished on June 19, 1990.

Toronto Police Detective Steve Smith says her vehicle was found 3 days later with blood inside.

“Police immediately began a large-scale investigation. Officers were confident enough to declare this missing person as a homicide. Elizabeth’s body has never been found, ” said Detective Smith.

Police thought they had her killer several months into the investigation. Elizabeth Bain’s boyfriend Robert Baltovich was convicted of her murder.

“They didn’t really leave much doubt in my mind that they were absolutely convinced that I had either killed Liz or that I knew what happened to her,” said Baltovich.

Baltovich spent eight years behind bars before being deemed not guilty by the courts in 2008. He says they had the wrong guy.

Elizabeth Bain’s killer remains at large, but police say someone knows something and one day, they are confident this decades old case will be solved.''

One thing to keep in mind imo, the blood in the car was never determined to belong to EB and only EB. At trial for RB, the closest TPS got was, the blood belonged to a female offspring of Mr and Mrs Bain.
 

Snively

Active Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
365
Reaction score
163
Website
www.nicollinvestigations.ca
One thing to keep in mind imo, the blood in the car was never determined to belong to EB and only EB. At trial for RB, the closest TPS got was, the blood belonged to a female offspring of Mr and Mrs Bain.

So it would be her or her sister and her sister wasn't cut. Kind of narrows down the possibilities, no?
 

Woodland

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
4,498
Reaction score
1,835
So it would be her or her sister and her sister wasn't cut. Kind of narrows down the possibilities, no?

No, the possibility remains as either or.

As previously discussed in the threads, the amount of blood in EB's car was less than what a person would give when donating blood, and smears only going in one direction. Unable to remember which direction (in or out) at the moment.

<modsnip>
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Snively

Active Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
365
Reaction score
163
Website
www.nicollinvestigations.ca
No, the possibility remains as either or.

As previously discussed in the threads, the amount of blood in EB's car was less than what a person would give when donating blood, and smears only going in one direction. Unable to remember which direction (in or out) at the moment.

<modsnip>

Fair enough, but if her sister wasn't cut where did the blood then come from? It was more than just a bloody nose.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

kemo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2007
Messages
1,655
Reaction score
1,131
The blood in the back of EB’s car is very critical evidence that the prosecution must have realized would have completely debunked their theory of the crime; that RB left her body hidden in the vegetation for three days before transporting it to Lake Scugog or wherever it was hidden. A complete analysis of the vehicle might have answered the question of when the body was actually transported.

<modsnip:referenced post edited/removed>
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SnoopCat

Member
Joined
May 23, 2013
Messages
83
Reaction score
7
This new discovery of remains is located just off of Simcoe St. N. which is accessed from the 401 in Oshawa, and is a direct line to Port Perry/Lake Scugog.
 

GlasgowSmile

New Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
14
This new discovery of remains is located just off of Simcoe St. N. which is accessed from the 401 in Oshawa, and is a direct line to Port Perry/Lake Scugog.

Yes, SnoopCat that is correct. I live a few short blocks away from where the site is. You could simply travel from Simcoe/Ritson Exit on the 401 straight up Simcoe to this area where the remains have been found. At the time this are was a large fielded horse farm. You can continue along Simcoe straight into the heart of Port Perry, and 7A which will take you to Lake Scugog.

No idea if it's related at all, but if any merit is given to some the more 'sketchy' sightings like that of the 401 incident it could be plausible.
 

Lexiintoronto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
4,292
Reaction score
14,187
Robert Baltovich was originally named by police as the suspect in Elizabeth’s murder and Paul Bernardo was later questioned about his possible relation to the case.

The family of Elizabeth Bain are innocent victims.

This a July, 2021 MSM article about RB where he is quoted (emphasis mine):

“There had been talk — much of it pushed by his own legal team — that Bain’s real killer was serial killer and serial rapist Paul Bernardo of Scarborough, who’s now serving a life prison term.

Baltovich now discounts that idea.

He says he has reinvestigated the case with a private investigator and believes he knows the identity of Bain’s real killer.

He declined to give the name of the person he believes to be the real killer on the record.

“I do not believe that Paul Bernardo was the killer ... I believe the killer was someone who was quite close to Liz.”

“We actually believe it could be solved.” ”
He went to prison for life. But U of T student Elizabeth Bain’s murder hadn’t been solved

So a person very close to the case won’t go on record with the Toronto Star and name who he suspects. That’s the latest MSM article we have to work with. If RB had said ‘_______ is a suspect, here’s why…’, we could quote that. But it would still be just his opinion.
 

MadMcGoo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2018
Messages
6,563
Reaction score
21,361
MOD NOTE:

As a reminder,

VICTIM FRIENDLY

Websleuths is a victim friendly forum. Attacking or bashing a victim is not allowed. Discussing known victim behavior, good or bad is fine, but do so in a civil and constructive way, and only when such behavior is known to be relevant to the case.

The "victim friendly" rule extends to family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, or others who have not been officially designated by law enforcement or in mainstream media as a Person of Interest or suspect is not allowed (i.e. Sleuthing out this type of information, and publicly posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public is not allowed and such posts will be removed, along with any posts that encourage such sleuthing).

This does not mean, however, that statements made by family members and other third parties cannot come into discussion as the facts of the case are reported in the media. Members may reasonably discuss what is said in MSM by them or about them, but do not make random accusations, insinuations, suggest their involvement, trash, bash or attack them, or speculate negatively about them.

Thanks for helping keep Websleuths amazing! Happy New Year!

- Mad
 
Last edited:

Lexiintoronto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
4,292
Reaction score
14,187
I know that it was suspected that EBs body may have been dumped somewhere in Port Perry & there was a witness who also said that he had seen EB in a vehicle fighting with someone on the East bound lanes of the 401 headed towards Oshawa. Would it be possible that maybe her remains were dumped somewhere in the Oshawa area? I happened upon the below article - as this is right around the corner from my home. At the time when EB went missing this would have been sprawling farm land (famous horse farm) - and a body has been uncovered that they believe is linked to a historical case - just wondering if anyone thinks MAYBE it could be a possibility? Even if remote.

Article here:
Human remains found in north Oshawa part of historical case investigation

Either way I am happy it would seem that a family will get some long awaited closure with this discovery.

Not Elizabeth, but another young lady who was murdered:

“Durham Regional Police announced Wednesday its investigators have recovered the remains of Kandis Fitzpatrick, a teenager killed by Adam Strong over a decade ago in Oshawa.

Fitzpatrick disappeared in 2008 and it wasn't until 2018 that police were able to link her to Strong…

…Fitzpatrick was found after Strong told a prison staff member where her remains were, police said.

Det. Sgt. Doris Carriere said Strong then accompanied investigators to the location — in the area of Secreto Drive and Britannia Avenue East in Oshawa and "pointed to a general area where he had believed he had buried the remains back in 2008."”
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6353740

I’m relieved for Kandis’s loved ones, but of course it’s a painful event.

I wish Elizabeth’s killer, or people who know what happened, will make a call to end the Bain family’s suffering.
 

GlasgowSmile

New Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2020
Messages
7
Reaction score
14
Not Elizabeth, but another young lady who was murdered:

“Durham Regional Police announced Wednesday its investigators have recovered the remains of Kandis Fitzpatrick, a teenager killed by Adam Strong over a decade ago in Oshawa.

Fitzpatrick disappeared in 2008 and it wasn't until 2018 that police were able to link her to Strong…

…Fitzpatrick was found after Strong told a prison staff member where her remains were, police said.

Det. Sgt. Doris Carriere said Strong then accompanied investigators to the location — in the area of Secreto Drive and Britannia Avenue East in Oshawa and "pointed to a general area where he had believed he had buried the remains back in 2008."”
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6353740

I’m relieved for Kandis’s loved ones, but of course it’s a painful event.

I wish Elizabeth’s killer, or people who know what happened, will make a call to end the Bain family’s suffering.
Thanks for posting, I just came here to update as I read it last night but was too tired to come online to do so. I truly hope it brings her loved ones some peace and that one day the same will be done for EBs loved ones who also seek answers.

I can't believe I walk my dog down the very pathway she was found off almost every summer day with my husband. Crazy, but at the time this would have been all horse farm.
 

IamwhatIam

Former Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
One thing to keep in mind imo, the blood in the car was never determined to belong to EB and only EB. At trial for RB, the closest TPS got was, the blood belonged to a female offspring of Mr and Mrs Bain.

Did they ever take a sample of the sister's blood to directly match it to her thus eliminating the sister as the direct source of the blood found in the car?
If they didn't do this, doesn't that seem odd?

Sorry if this question has been asked before.
 

Lexiintoronto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
4,292
Reaction score
14,187
Did they ever take a sample of the sister's blood to directly match it to her thus eliminating the sister as the direct source of the blood found in the car?
If they didn't do this, doesn't that seem odd?

Sorry if this question has been asked before.
One thing to keep in mind imo, the blood in the car was never determined to belong to EB and only EB. At trial for RB, the closest TPS got was, the blood belonged to a female offspring of Mr and Mrs Bain.

The blood found in EB’s car was from a female offspring or Mr. and Mrs. Bain. They only had two daughters: one missing, one alive and well. If you google MSM articles about this case, they all indicate that EB’s blood was found in her car.

I haven’t read that CB did not give a blood sample. If anyone has a MSM article that says differently can you please link it?
 

IamwhatIam

Former Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2022
Messages
4
Reaction score
0
I've been reading the trial transcripts that were posted on here.
They took the family's fingerprints to include or exclude them from the prints found on the car and clearly offered the information at trial.
Why was there no information offered at trial if they had taken CB's DNA sample to compare against the blood in the car.
The prosecutor asked her if she bled in the car on the 19th or three to four days after or if she dragged a bulky object covered in her blood into the car.
Wouldn't it have been easier and much more results oriented if they just had asked her if she gave a DNA sample and what the results were?
Or was her DNA sample in fact taken and the results were surprising for whatever reason so much so that they couldn't reveal the fact of the results.
 

Lexiintoronto

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
4,292
Reaction score
14,187
I've been reading the trial transcripts that were posted on here.
They took the family's fingerprints to include or exclude them from the prints found on the car and clearly offered the information at trial.
Why was there no information offered at trial if they had taken CB's DNA sample to compare against the blood in the car.
The prosecutor asked her if she bled in the car on the 19th or three to four days after or if she dragged a bulky object covered in her blood into the car.
Wouldn't it have been easier and much more results oriented if they just had asked her if she gave a DNA sample and what the results were?
Or was her DNA sample in fact taken and the results were surprising for whatever reason so much so that they couldn't reveal the fact of the results.

Can you please specify or screenshot with links exactly what you’re referring to?

I’m not understanding the speculation.
 
Top