Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Cormier, 19, St John, NB, 29 Sept 2013 - #2

[Truth Prevails]

I defer to what you think, Truth.... Curious what everyone thinks...

BBM - Same here. Hope others weigh in.

Wish more info would be released besides "no foul play" - - such if suspected drug death, medical problem, natural causes (but can't be for someone so young)...

This won't happen, though. We've got what we are going to get. They don't feel it's good for us to look to closely at this stuff.

Can't remember patterns of other serial killer - if they would do something not expected to throw off LE...

I've read where they do occasionally change things--especially if they find something is not working so good, or they come up with something that makes things easier.

Another telling thing I see here besides the six month intervals, is there is no passion involved. There was no motive for these women to die--no family violence; no boyfriend/girlfriend relationships gone wrong; no attempt to rob the victims. Nothing.

Those are the backgrounds for most murders, but yet we don't see that in these cases.

There are times when I wonder if his anger, (and evilness,) could possible stem from a beef with the city, something centered on the west side.

He didn't get much press with his first victim; so it seems like he chose a more mature woman which would be sure to raise the stakes for LE to solve.

That seemed to work fairly well for him; plus he was successful at having his second victim's body wash up almost exactly where the body of his first victim had--which would have caused Law Enforcement's concern to skyrocket.

Then he decides he wants a third one, and maybe he was very pleased with the location he had used to take his second victim; so he chose that location for a third victim.

Perhaps he thought three washing up in the same location would bring too much heat; so to have a little fun with people's minds he arranged it so his third victim would cross the tip of the bay and land on the beach shores.

So, I see little changes he makes. He is no smarter than he thinks he is, but you can see that he is knowledgeable about some things such as tidal currents, and navigating rough bodies of water.

I don't think we are looking for a teenager or a really young man.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Yes I agree on that. I noticed a whole different tone on this as compared to Gen,who in the police view was a runaway or a sucide. I think his parents are very well known in the city with connections to the powers that be. Seems very odd Gavin is found on Monday,these drugs are found and arrests made on Tuesday,then a special police warning. I hope it does some good though because if these drugs are connected to Gavin it is murder in a sense.

Absolutely. He deserves justice; just as Shelby, Yeonhee, and Genevieve do.

 

[jillybean51]

Truth,when you mentioned a beef with the west side,just thinking ...how long since Centracare closed?Wasn't it on or near the park that now exists there?(the one Genn and Yeonchee used?) Former patient?.....just grasping at straws when you mentioned something maybe tied to West Saint John idk

 

[Truth Prevails]

Truth,when you mentioned a beef with the west side,just thinking ...how long since Centracare closed?Wasn't it on or near the park that now exists there?(the one Genn and Yeonchee used?) Former patient?.....just grasping at straws when you mentioned something maybe tied to West Saint John idk

Yes, Centracare was right up on the hill. Gen and Yeonhee would have been walking in behind where it stood.

They tore it down in 1999.

Quote: "J.D. Irving began the massive demolition of the vacant psychiatric hospital in Lancaster on March 9, 1999 and the entire structure was levelled within days. Some of the rubble was used to fill the basement while the rest was hauled away to a nearby construction and demolition landfill. The site was then hydroseeded and the property has been turned into a privately owned but publicly accessed urban park administered by J.D. Irving Ltd. The park offers spectacular views of the Reversing Falls and the Saint John skyline."
Read more here: Centracare (hospital)

That thought crossed my mind, too. Even a disgruntled relative of a former patient.

Everybody was pretty happy to see that place get torn down, though.

 

[JanNB]

I can chime in on the Centracare history a bit I think. Centracare was torn down after it became obsolete for a number of reasons...mostly the trend toward de-insitutionalization. A smaller facility was built and is also on the west side. The numbers went from in the 100s to a 50 bed facility. Most mental health clients now live in the community either independently, with family or in residential facilities (ie Special care homes or nursing homes). It is important to realize that most mental health clients are not at all violent and the few that are would not be able to commit this type of crime and not be caught. Someone with severe delusions would likely also be disorganized. So I do not believe that there is any link to Centracare.

My husband heard from people at work, for what it is worth, that Gavin had gone to a party on the night he disappeared and had been drinking and was also given some type of drug. This might fit in with the alert the police released regarding the two drugs that were found in the North End. Again, this could well just be a rumour but it is what he heard.

No matter what it is sad that this city has lost so many young people recently.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I can chime in on the Centracare history a bit I think. Centracare was torn down after it became obsolete for a number of reasons...mostly the trend toward de-insitutionalization. A smaller facility was built and is also on the west side. The numbers went from in the 100s to a 50 bed facility. Most mental health clients now live in the community either independently, with family or in residential facilities (ie Special care homes or nursing homes). It is important to realize that most mental health clients are not at all violent and the few that are would not be able to commit this type of crime and not be caught. Someone with severe delusions would likely also be disorganized. So I do not believe that there is any link to Centracare.

My husband heard from people at work, for what it is worth, that Gavin had gone to a party on the night he disappeared and had been drinking and was also given some type of drug. This might fit in with the alert the police released regarding the two drugs that were found in the North End. Again, this could well just be a rumour but it is what he heard.

No matter what it is sad that this city has lost so many young people recently.

Excellent points, here!

Yes, it's hard to believe they could get the six month intervals right even if they had moments of violent clarity.

A relative of one, who believed a loved one hadn't been treated right, could fit though.

As far as Gavin, that's the story they have been working on; but it doesn't really fit what we were told at first; although early information is often incorrect.

It certainly does fit with the alert released by the police.

 

[JanNB]

Excellent points, here!

Yes, it's hard to believe they could get the six month intervals right even if they had moments of violent clarity.

A relative of one, who believed a loved one hadn't been treated right, could fit though.

As far as Gavin, that's the story they have been working on; but it doesn't really fit what we were told at first; although early information is often incorrect.

It certainly does fit with the alert released by the police.

Why don't you think it fits with what we were first told??

I don't believe that anyone would seek revenge regarding mistreatment at Centracare by killing young women. What seems more likely is that it is someone who live and/or works on the west side. I believe that serial killers often kill close to home so to speak.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Why don't you think it fits with what we were first told??

I don't believe that anyone would seek revenge regarding mistreatment at Centracare by killing young women. What seems more likely is that it is someone who live and/or works on the west side. I believe that serial killers often kill close to home so to speak.

Well, it's just that at first we were told that he was last seen by his departing friend at the corner of Hilyard and Chesley around 9:00 pm.

I suspect this is prime party time for teenagers, but it seems his friend decided to part ways at least for a little while.

Anyway, I find it a little bit strange that his phone was pinged and his remains were discovered in the area pinged--which is approximately a one minute walk from where he was last seen with his friend.

I know, there are a lot of hours in there where he could have went to a party and been on his way home before succumbing to the cold, drugs and booze.

Apparently he was posting on his Facebook page around 10:30 pm that night, too. Although, I realize there is no way to confirm that it was him.
____________

Point taken about Centracare--we're just speculating. There have been people who take automatic machine guns into schools and murder many people with a grievance no more significant than mistreatment of a loved one. Anyone can Google the history of Centracare.

We have to remember that the person we are probably looking for is not exactly sane. Very evil, maybe seemingly sane--but badly twisted.

 

[JanNB]

Good point Truth!!

Something just occurred to me...If I was planning to kill a random person and did not want to be caught then I might be smart enough to try to make it look like a suicide. I wonder if the killer perhaps chose his/her victims based on the area (reversing falls which has known its share of suicide attempts) and by the characteristics of the victim (female walking alone, possible seeming depressed). Perhaps I am giving hm/her too much credit.....

 

[OldSteve]

Truth,when you mentioned a beef with the west side,just thinking ...how long since Centracare closed?Wasn't it on or near the park that now exists there?(the one Genn and Yeonchee used?) Former patient?.....just grasping at straws when you mentioned something maybe tied to West Saint John idk

Now that's ^^ interesting about Centracare! Adds something else to consider..

I was thinking about the "6 months apart" and wondering if it's not so much time in months, but simply fall and springtime. Fall and springtime -- would think the area would be less frequented. Winter is too cold; summer too many visitors...

Got to wonder how a would go about taking someone on the path. Cannot imagine he's simply hiding there all day long... wonder how often Genevieve and Yeonhee walked the path....

Accidental falls - 1 death every 8 hrs. kills a woman in Canada -
http://www.acbr.com/causdeat.htm

 

[Truth Prevails]

Good point Truth!!

Something just occurred to me...If I was planning to kill a random person and did not want to be caught then I might be smart enough to try to make it look like a suicide. I wonder if the killer perhaps chose his/her victims based on the area (reversing falls which has known its share of suicide attempts) and by the characteristics of the victim (female walking alone, possible seeming depressed). Perhaps I am giving hm/her too much credit.....

BBM - I'm sure he looks for a small female walking alone. That's often a serial killer's first requirement.

It's been my feeling for a while that he likes using that area as a back drop for his sick little game. I don't think it is a coincidence.

As far as possibly seeming depressed--I think he might be getting a little help from the media, and possibly LE, on that characteristic. I'm sure he wouldn't have that many to choose from; so finding one alone and not too large, in the right area, would probably suit him.

FYI - I did a quick Google check for full moons; nothing fits there.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Now that's ^^ interesting about Centracare! Adds something else to consider..

I was thinking about the "6 months apart" and wondering if it's not so much time in months, but simply fall and springtime. Fall and springtime -- would think the area would be less frequented. Winter is too cold; summer too many visitors...

That made me think--springtime and fall. A seasonal worker, perhaps? Someone who comes to Saint John for work beginning in the spring; but leaves in the fall as the business closes for the winter.

Awesome point, btw!

Got to wonder how a would go about taking someone on the path. Cannot imagine he's simply hiding there all day long... wonder how often Genevieve and Yeonhee walked the path....

I think he grabs them quick by running up from behind. He possibly holds a knife to their throats and tells them not to make a sound or he will use it. Or, he could soak a cloth in chloroform when he sees them coming, and use that to subdue them.

I think he has his vehicle parked handy and puts them possibly in the trunk until he transports them to a second location.

One of the things that makes me think he is familiar with the area is that he is able to get his victims on that path. To the best of my knowledge, it's not a heavily used path--and if anyone wants to chime in on that I'd appreciate.

I agree that he is not spending hours waiting; so he has to know they are coming. I'd say he somehow has time to do some surveying; and has a general idea of when they are coming.

This is another indication to me that he at times lives in the area where he is able to watch who comes and goes on the path.

Accidental falls - 1 death every 8 hrs. kills a woman in Canada -
http://www.acbr.com/causdeat.htm

I respect statistics but this one is blown a little out of proportion for the province of New Brunswick.

Just for an example: the population of Ontario is approximately 13,538,000; the population of New Brunswick is approximately 756,100.
Source: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/demo02a-eng.htm

I'm sure one New Brunswicker does not die every 8 hours due to an accidental fall. You can take that to the bank.

And keep in mind that they must be referring to people who fall on the floor or on the ground, from a standing position; surely they can't mean we are falling from cliffs at that rate.

 

[OldSteve]

Respectfully snipped:

I'm sure one New Brunswicker does not die every 8 hours due to an accidental fall. You can take that to the bank.

Agree, I figure that stat is meant to say that in all of Canada 1 woman dies every 8 hours from a fall, or 3 per day on average out of a female of a population of approx 17-18 million.

I think he has his vehicle parked handy and puts them possibly in the trunk until he transports them to a second location.

Your saying that has me thinking again about the miracle of Gen's purse saying with her all that time in the rough water! As you pointed out earlier, and something I had not thought about in the case of Sarah Majoras from Lambertville who died in the canal there - poor Sarah's boot had come off simply falling some 8 or 10 feet onto the frozen edge of a relatively calm canal!

 

[Truth Prevails]

Respectfully snipped:

Agree, I figure that stat is meant to say that in all of Canada 1 woman dies every 8 hours from a fall, or 3 per day on average out of a female of a population of approx 17-18 million.

Yep. But a province that has a total population of approximately 15 million; should have a higher percentage of those deaths than a province with an approximate population of 750,000.

Assuming the population between men and women is about equally split; that still leaves about 7.5 million women in Ontario; compared to about 375,000 women in New Brunswick.

Your saying that has me thinking again about the miracle of Gen's purse saying with her all that time in the rough water! As you pointed out earlier, and something I had not thought about in the case of Sarah Majoras from Lambertville who died in the canal there - poor Sarah's boot had come off simply falling some 8 or 10 feet onto the frozen edge of a relatively calm canal!

I never forget about Gen's purse, either.

I don't know if there is another way for me to examine the fact that it was with her when she came to shore.

The way it is being said--that it was just there with nothing holding it on; and coupled with the fact that they said she had been in the water for a long period of time does not fit either theory--accidental death or murder.

Or suicide, either--which I hope by now no one is contemplating as an option.

That only leaves a mis-truth or a miracle.

Tis the season and all that, so I'm not going to say which one I favor.

Justice for Genevieve! If she brought that purse to shore with her, surely we can do the rest.

 

[Sandpiper]

Yep. But a province that has a total population of approximately 15 million; should have a higher percentage of those deaths than a province with an approximate population of 750,000.

Assuming the population between men and women is about equally split; that still leaves about 7.5 million women in Ontario; compared to about 375,000 women in New Brunswick.

I never forget about Gen's purse, either.

I don't know if there is another way for me to examine the fact that it was with her when she came to shore.

The way it is being said--that it was just there with nothing holding it on; and coupled with the fact that they said she had been in the water for a long period of time does not fit either theory--accidental death or murder.

Or suicide, either--which I hope by now no one is contemplating as an option.

That only leaves a mis-truth or a miracle.

Tis the season and all that, so I'm not going to say which one I favor.

Justice for Genevieve! If she brought that purse to shore with her, surely we can do the rest.

Truth it was a miracle-if there had not been a storm the day before and all that night with big surf I don't think Gen would have come home. She was on her way out to sea. About the purse do you think it was across her body but with a short strap? Perhaps that could explain it staying with her.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Truth it was a miracle-if there had not been a storm the day before and all that night with big surf I don't think Gen would have come home. She was on her way out to sea. About the purse do you think it was across her body but with a short strap? Perhaps that could explain it staying with her.

It could be that I'm giving the possible perpetrator too much credit. IDK - but I still feel he has an above average knowledge of the waterways.

I truly believe that Gen wanted to come home--she didn't want to stay in that water.

Following is a picture of Gen with the jacket on that she was wearing the day she went missing, and we can see the strap for her shoulder bag. I don't find it looks that short. It seems loose, if anything.

I know they come in so many shapes and sizes; and that people can wear them so many different ways; however, I think it would have been at least this long.

If you are face down in the water with your arms free and floating outward, the purse would have to swing toward the bottom, and as your body moved forward and backward from the waves, I think it would be off in less than 20 minutes.

I suppose the strap buckle or possibly the closing buckle could snag in your hair or your clothes, but in this particular case, it would have had a long brutal journey like that.

I don't know if hair would be strong enough to hold it for long; and to be honest, I'm surprised that her jacket stayed on her--if it did.

Do you know if it was confirmed that she still had her jacket on?

Here are direct links to Gen's sister's comments mentioning Gen's purse, but I don't see any mention of the jacket.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Mary Cormier, 19, Saint John NB, 29 September 2013 #2

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Mary Cormier, 19, Saint John NB, 29 September 2013 #2

 

[OldSteve]

I don't understand why details about how she was found and what was found on/with her has to be so hush-hush. Simply hold a new conference - things could be mentioned without being gory or disrespectful to victim and family.

Considering a beautiful young woman has recently died for no apparent reason, and is following in the footsteps of two other women - wouldn't the public want to know more details of what's going on?

If it were I who had succumbed like this, I certainly would want it mentioned - the only thing that would change my mind would be if cause of death might somehow get changed to something would upset life insurance being paid to my family.

 

[foofusmagee]

ahhh the bag!
Truth and Steve, this bag just keeps coming up! its the newest little nugget in this case and it sure is a big one!!

I am still wondering what else was in there...we know the passport was, but i fear we will never know the rest...i dont know if it even matters, but i keep coming back to it....

Also, just a thought, but is the pathway used for jogging? Is it just a nature path or is it known as a place for a quick jog? maybe just in the neighborhood? Because, to me, that would be a good cover to be out there, you know? like,
"im not a creep hanging out on the path, im jogging..."

imo, they may need to be looking at someone in that neighborhood....

 

[Truth Prevails]

I don't understand why details about how she was found and what was found on/with her has to be so hush-hush. Simply hold a new conference -

Well, it’s the Canadian way, eh? Except to recognize that, I can’t say I understand it much myself.

The ones they don’t want us to notice will certainly not generate a news conference.

things could be mentioned without being gory or disrespectful to victim and family.

I agree whole heartedly. The nature of our discussions sometimes takes an unpleasant turn, but I feel that’s because a violent crime has been committed.

It’s hard to paint it pleasant, because the reality was anything but. Hiding it doesn't change the facts either.

Considering a beautiful young woman has recently died for no apparent reason, and is following in the footsteps of two other women - wouldn't the public want to know more details of what's going on?

I’m not sure that most of us do, and it’s some of the reason why they can successfully achieve such secrecy.

Perhaps it is our apathetic habit; but—whatever it is—we allow them to work it to their advantage.

If it were I who had succumbed like this, I certainly would want it mentioned - the only thing that would change my mind would be if cause of death might somehow get changed to something would upset life insurance being paid to my family.

I feel this way, too.

No matter what our beliefs are, I don’t understand how we think murdered souls are resting peacefully if we on earth are calling their murders suicides or accidents.

I’m pretty sure I wouldn’t be happy about that. I would want justice and appreciate anyone who spoke on my behalf, when I could not longer speak for myself.

 

[Truth Prevails]

ahhh the bag!
Truth and Steve, this bag just keeps coming up! its the newest little nugget in this case and it sure is a big one!!

And we only know about the shoulder bag and passport because Gen's family told us.

I'm pretty sure about that--I don't ever remember seeing that in a media article.

I am still wondering what else was in there...we know the passport was, but i fear we will never know the rest...i dont know if it even matters, but i keep coming back to it....

It would take a miracle for this to be charged as a crime; have an arrest made; and get Gen's case to trial.

Short of that, I don't think we will ever know what else remained in her shoulder bag, if anything.

Also, just a thought, but is the pathway used for jogging? Is it just a nature path or is it known as a place for a quick jog? maybe just in the neighborhood? Because, to me, that would be a good cover to be out there, you know? like,
"im not a creep hanging out on the path, im jogging..."

I lived in that area for about eight years, and I never new about that path.

I use to walk down Sea Street and follow the tracks for a nice walk--and this was recommended by locals; but no one ever mentioned the path Gen and Yeonhee were on to me.

I think it is mainly used by locals who walk to and from the uptown area; and my guess is that it is not a heavily traveled path.

There is more of a nature type path right in behind the Reversing Falls Restaurant and the BoAz Restaurant, but this is not where Genevieve was.

From her last sighting--if we have that correctly--she was beyond that part. The path she was known to travel began just beyond the lower parking area.

imo, they may need to be looking at someone in that neighborhood....

I semi-agree.

At the very least, someone with a view of the area.