Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #21

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by Strangeworld, Jul 19, 2019.

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  1. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    Possibly one of the schoolmates who reported Schmegelsky's remarks at school of wanting to kill others and himself. If so, they were brave to report that.

    Former classmates of northern B.C. murder suspect say he would describe killing himself, others
     
  2. Schmoosh

    Schmoosh Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly my point. It's the timing of when that conclusion could be made, and that was after their deaths/finding the guns that fired the bullets and doing the analysis on them, not before.
     
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  3. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    One thought: do we know for a fact that they quit their Walmart jobs?

    Maybe one or both was fired. That could certainly have been the catalyst for all of this.
     
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  4. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    The bullet casings had distinctive markings on them. Numbers punched into the casings. There was no need to find the gun. There was apparently a delay in finding the casing for the bullet that killed Mr. D., but as soon as they had it they could clearly link the two crimes.

    They also had somebody that came forward to say the two could have done it.
     
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  5. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Throughout history criminals and murders have been romanticized.
    There are stories, songs, and movies about some of the most infamous and brutal killers.

    Yet most people can't even name their victims, and no nothing about them.
    I think the problem is in many cases the criminal is looked upon as a hero to some, or are sympathetic because of all the hardships and wrongs done to them by society.

    In the age of the internet and social media, there are more and more copycat murders than ever before.

    I think that is the problem some are concerned about.

    But I do think it's also important to analyze behavior to determine what leads an individual to do something like this. It has certainly helped investigators in solving cases through our the years.

    IMO
     
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  6. cartman

    cartman Well-Known Member

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    Well Walmart did instruct their employees to NOT speak to the media.
     
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  7. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    I don't know how old my digital camera is (only 10 years I think) but it does this. It was not super cheap, it's a medium price Canon. I'm a professor. I constantly find it with the wrong date, but then, I never bother to set it. -_-

    I was trained to record photos used in work in a notebook. I have tons of those little notebooks. All I have to do when working is write the date on a page, say where I photographed, when I started, and what the subject matter is. The camera will still give me the hourly timestamps. That way, even if the camera is lost and my memory and sketches are all that I have, I have a record. Today I use an unpublished blog (stored locally and in the cloud) as well as the notebooks. Everything has to be written up (preferably by the end of the day, when memory is fresh) anyway.

    ...
     
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  8. SovereignSnake

    SovereignSnake Well-Known Member

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    "On July 19, 2019 at approximately 8:29 a.m., Dyck’s body was located by the Dease Lake RCMP."

    Another piece that stood out to me in the report. We had all been under the impression they didn't torch the Dodge and Camper until Friday afternoon. I also could not believe they would shoot someone in broad daylight. I guess to be fair though, the only reference we had was the original report on the burning vehicle put out shortly after 4pm on Friday the 19th. So here's something I was thinking about, since it's now certain they killed Leonard over night, what time was it when Kam and Bryer discovered him? I pictured this scenario, they were driving down 37 late the night of the 18th into the 19th, they may have even pulled over to rest or as we've also now discovered, give the truck a break and let it cool down. I have to wonder if Kam and Bryer discussed the options of: A. We either find someone, kill them and steal their vehicle or B. We have to go home and pretend like none of this ever happened. I just think it's interesting, the truck started giving them trouble and they went back to BC. Even so much as traveling southbound on Hwy 37. I mean I think about when I've had car trouble and the first thing I think is; "Oh please just let me get this thing home." So here's a question; did they drive by and see Leonard pulled over and then turn round and drive back up 37 North and that was the closest pullout they could find? Or rather, the one that was furthest from the road? Then they walked back down the side of the highway to where Leonard was pulled over and sprung on him? Or picture this, did the Dodge finally quit on them completely and they started walking, hoping desperately they would get lucky and find someone? I just don't think Bryer ever did even a small amount of driving. I think it scared him and as we've come to observe, Kam was his "dom" so to speak. Bryer was Kam's "submissive." It's safe to say one way or another, they were walking that stretch of highway where they killed Leonard.

    "On July 19, 2019, at 11:38 a.m., McLeod and Schmegelsky were observed at a Kitwanga gas station. They were seen in a silver RAV4. [This gas station is located at the junction of Highway 16 and Highway 37 and approximately 420 kilometers south of the Dease Lake homicide scene.]"

    Now that brings me to this question. Kitwanga is a 6 hour drive on Google Maps, factor in any gas, bathroom or food stops, it probably took them a little over 7 hours from where they left Leonard and burned the pickup. Can we say then that Kam and Bryer must have killed him round 3am, drove back to the Dodge with his RAV, lit everything up and were on the road shortly after 4am. Didn't they say the pickup was still burning when they found it? So I'm guessing someone reported it initially at say 5am? Then found Leonard right after. We saw how long it took for the RCMP to get to Lucas and Chynna. Could that have been the same case here? I still think in the time they killed Leonard, burned everything and fled, it was under an hour. One more thing, what were they going to do with the crowbar? Were they going to attempt to break into campers or vehicles along the way? I remember them stating that a crowbar was recovered at the scene of the burned out RAV. I can't believe Kam nor Bryer had any idea how to hotwire a car. I guess it could have been to loot vehicles just as well. It sounds like they were already starting to hurt financially when they got Leonard. I think that gun purchase cost them a big chunk of their cash. But the gas money too.. my god!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  9. Schmoosh

    Schmoosh Well-Known Member

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    I'm not missing concepts. They weren't charged with L & C's deaths while still alive. Period. Had they had enough to do so, they would have. But they couldn't until after they were found dead with their video confessions and analysing the firearms.

    Arresting and charging someone are two different things. You can arrest someone and not charge them, but I'm not sure what "arrest" has to do with this case anyway.
     
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  10. NJSleuth91

    NJSleuth91 Well-Known Member

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    I hope this isn't too controversial to post, but I feel like the police secrecy did more harm than good. It fueled a lot of speculation and wild conspiracy theories. I saw the comments online getting more conspiracy oriented as time went on. If they had been more forthcoming with information from the outset at the time when they had it, none of that would have happened to that extent. From what I've heard even the families of the suspects didn't get much more information than we did before this week.

    I also still wonder why the police didn't warn the public for four days while these guys were running around the country, not even naming them as persons of interest. Especially when they suspected them since the 21st due to the tip and store footage. They could have been stopped on the 22nd. The advisory went out hours after the police stopped them. We are lucky they didn't kill anyone else.

    There were no handguns. Only two rifles. The only place that ever reported them having handguns was...Wikipedia.

    It also says in the report that they did not talk about any details of the murders in the videos. They just said that they did it.
     
  11. Schmoosh

    Schmoosh Well-Known Member

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    Bullet markings to link the two crimes to each other? Agreed. To link the crimes to specific perps? It depends on when the police knew the perps had SKS firearms. The person who came forward to police made them believe for the first time that they were capable of killing. I wonder if it was the sales person at Cabela's.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
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  12. sandbar

    sandbar Well-Known Member

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    sbm

    I agree 100%.

    MAYBE
    you take a shotgun if you're going on a driving trip with the intention of going into the woods. Something that's going to make a loud sound, or scare away a bear, whatever. I wouldn't, but there's a case to be made for that kind of thinking. But if you've already got a semi-automatic franken-gun and loads of ammo, and you purchase a 2nd semi-automatic and more ammo, there is something specific on your mind, that's got nothing to do scaring bears. That is a plan.

    Even, "Let's take these guns on a road trip with us and see what happens" is a plan...
     
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  13. 10ofRods

    10ofRods Verified Anthropologist

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    I realize that. However, the vast majority of criminals are not romanticized. That's why you can go to true crime podcasts and read page after page of entries and not recognize a single crime. That's why people in Colorado (on this very forum) are a bit surprised that no one has heard of Kelsey Berreth or why people in Dallas are surprised that no one outside their area knows (or cares) who Amber Guyger is.

    Robin Hood (a particular favorite of mine) was romanticized in a certain way, and Bugsy Siegel was one of the earliest of 20th century criminals (along with Al Capone) to be romanticized (along with the entire mafia). But in general, people cannot name the most heinous psychosexual killers unless they are also serial killers (and it helps if they are from the 70's or 80's). Crime bosses are still regarded with some sort of reverence (if judged by some funerals and public events), but I think the social function of Robin Hood and organized crime is different than what we see with serial killers.

    If people here on WS (who are the only people I can find on the internet who are today discussing these reports in any detail) are romanticizing killers, then that's a subcultural phenom that I find really strange (and see very little evidence of). It takes a much larger group to "romanticize" something. I suppose that an individual can become positively obsessed with Kam or Bryer but that doesn't mean "romanticization" to me. Romanticization, to me, is when a culture presents something as more perfected or desirable than it actually is. Perhaps within a small group of gamers, somewhere, they are being romanticized (but I'm not yet seeing evidence of that in gaming forums, nor did forums devoted to the games they played even pay much attention to this crime spree).

    It's here on WS that we pay attention. So, if you think that this kind of attention romanticizes crime, then every one of us is part of that process. I do not accept that as an explanation for what we're doing here, and I don't see any evidence of it. However, if that's what ends up happening due to sites like Websleuths, I'm going to give it a lot of thought.

    Anyway, I don't think a popular movie will be made about these two (it's too repetitive and redundant, that entire genre of film is hard to sell because it's overdone by now). Some ratty made-for-streaming movie might appear. A Netflix documentary or something (I doubt it though, information is too scant, they are also not appealing enough).

    I'm curious though, does anyone think that crime documentaries "romanticize" criminals? Did "Making of a Murderer" romanticize the potential killers? And do books on true crime do this as well? Did Ann Rule romanticize Ted Bundy? Ann's work put fear into me, as I was stupidly ignoring any risk whatsoever associated with getting to know strangers, in my youth. I don't recall anything but grim horror at Bundy and was shocked when women penned him admiring mails. Do men romanticize such people in the same way? WS seems to have more women than men, so it makes me curious.

    (I used to romanticize Northern Canada a whole lot...but this case definitely punctured that balloon...)
     
  14. Tealgrove

    Tealgrove Well-Known Member

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    A little late to the discussion today. I've been mulling over a few articles that I read yesterday and thinking about the whole thing.

    The guns were not taken from Kam's father as some of us suspected. They were purchased legally and with intent. The plan was to kill people, pure and simple, and yet no motive. So scary that these types of people walk among us.

    I found the article about the search in the Gillam area fascinating. What they found and where. The fact that a raven led searchers to their bodies is almost mythical. Amazing. If not for local help and trackers that offered to help, we may still be sitting here discussing where they were.

    I also found the comment that they planned to kill more people and not just the 3 that they confessed to. So, why did they stop? That was the question I had all along. I figured that they would just keep killing as they moved across the country but they stopped. Kam's backpack was found in the Gillam area and there was ammunition in there so they didn't run out which is what I suspected. They could have killed others as they ventured across the Prairies but they didn't. Why not? Clearly it's a blessing that they did stop, but why?

    And finally, and I find this incredibly interesting...Kam killed Bryer. I envisioned them putting a gun to their heads at the same time and pulling the trigger respectively but that's not what happened. Wow! So what does that say about their relationship? Kam was the leader? Kam ran the show? Bryer, the one who was the big talker couldn't take his own life in the end? So many questions left unanswered and such a tragedy for those that crossed their path.

    Unbelievable.

    MOO
     
  15. copkid

    copkid Well-Known Member

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    Great Post!!
     
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  16. Satchie

    Satchie Well-Known Member

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    There's also a bureaucratic explanation, which isn't trivial. Compiling a charging document and getting a judge to drop whatever they're doing in order to read, consider and approve it is no small matter. BC RCMP only needed to charge them with one murder in order to trigger the manhunt, and issue a warning that they were armed and dangerous. RCMP had the video evidence of the suspects in what was probably Dr. Dyck's car, in Saskatchewan, and that was an easy piece of evidence to put before the judge, it didn't require forensic experts to sign off on their conclusions, lengthy consideration by the judge of complicated evidence, etc.

    They did the minimum necessary because time was of the essence and this wasn't the situation to be perfectionistic. When you're fighting a fire, you don't waste everyone's time by bringing in the fire reconstruction experts, insurance adjusters, renovation contactors, etc. You focus on putting the fire out.
     
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  17. sandbar

    sandbar Well-Known Member

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    I get that, and that's what I'm saying isn't that unusual: finding the suspected gun with the suspects is probably the norm.

    I think that finding casings with the same identifying markings at two different crime scenes links the scenes. And it's reasonable, in my view, to pursue the investigation as though the 2 crimes were committed by the same person. It is not conclusive evidence, it is an investigative theory that LE pursues.

    The next thing to do is find the gun that fired the bullets. I would think it's probably the case (unless the gun has been ditched) to find the gun with the suspects. When the gun is found they do ballistics to see if the bullets found at the scenes were fired by that gun.

    The identifying markings are different from ballistics. Identifying markings are imprinted into the bullet casings by the manufacturer. Ballistics is the unique signature that is made on a bullet by passing trough a particular gun. That can only be done when a gun is recovered.
     
  18. Schmoosh

    Schmoosh Well-Known Member

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  19. FactFinder3000

    FactFinder3000 Well-Known Member

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    This just isn't how it works, though. They don't charge somebody the second they have enough evidence to charge them. Absence of charges does not prove they don't have enough evidence to charge, it can simply mean they're not done yet.

    In BC charges must be approved by Crown prosecutors. The better your case, the more likely you are to have those charges approved.
     
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  20. Schmoosh

    Schmoosh Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the first part.

    As for the second part, the RCMP itself said for weeks that they were still working hard trying to put information to a judge to get them charged in L & C's murder, so that is in contrast to your claim that they "did the minimum necessary".
     
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