CANADA - Lucas Fowler & Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #5

[otto]

I've rarely come across French, and I'm in Alberta. I did hear more of it when I was travelling closer to Quebec.

I also had the thoughts about dogs. Everyone has one it seems. I wonder if there was anytime the dogs went nuts. I can't see domesticated dogs going after them, but maybe strays?

There has to be a reason why the RCMP have just stayed steadfast in Gillam. They have to have some form of proof they are still out there.

I think the concern is twofold. If they are in the woods, the suspects are likely in trouble in terms of disorientation, dehydration, fatigue and exposure, secondly, Gillam surrounding area is that last known sighting of them. Police have to rule out that they are lost in the woods. They will keep searching that area until they have a reason to move the search to another area.

 

[scapa]

Definitely yes. And most in Quebec also speak English.

Ontario and Manitoba both have large French-speaking groups, including towns in both provinces that are French-first language. These communities, both Franco-Manitoban and Manitoban Métis, are longstanding and closeknit, and I'd expect at least a few Franco-Manitoban officers/communications officers in any major Manitoban RCMP detachment -- though the PCs I've heard on this case in French sound more Anglo than FFL to me (I come from a French-speaking family).

I expect these two to be found fairly soon -- whether alive or not. Sounds like the next few days will be very difficult in northern MB.

 

[sleuth3000]

I was sortof assuming it (it being regina connection) was more sensationalism, especially since the original article specifically mentions its not believed to be connected. But I havnt seen it "debunked" and it seems to be a possibility at least, to me. Is there something I am missing that definitely rules this out? Also the article mentioned one of the teens mother lives in regina, is that true or is AU news really that sensationalist (or maybe I picked a particularly unreliable site, not sure)

LE seems to think they are still near gilliam, thats a strong indicator to me they likely are, I suppose im taking possibilities into account without doing the same for probabilities.

So basically Im saying I agree it seems to be unsubstantiated, sensationalist, speculation, but wondering what it being 'debunked' entails and if you have some opinion or evidence regarding it so I can put the unlikely scenario aside

 

[Snoop Sister]

I agree

As historic and dramatic the name Hudson’s Bay is, there is nothing but the ghost town of Port Nelson there. There is no active port. There might be a few fishermen or trappers around, but not much else. And once you get there, then what?

There are no magic swords or spells to trade to get you a helicopter out of there. There is really nowhere to go. You are stuck to die a slow death of privation and cold when winter sets in.

I am wondering because there are many Métis settlements in Alberta and Francais is not uncommon in these areas, would there be a lot of Métis people in Northern Manitoba? Any locals around?

 

[SiciC]

Because this is Canada. Most people are not armed.

To be fair, plenty of people that live in rural areas or out in the country/on farms have licensed guns. Lots of people in those areas hunt as well. Most Canadians are not armed, but a lot are. If these guys are on foot in the forest carrying around guns for days.. they must be completely exhausted. I'm starting to really think they're not out there. But LE has to have reasons to be looking so extensively out there. I wonder what we'll learn in the press conference today. Hopefully more than the same stuff they repeated in the ten minute one last time..
jmo

 

[Deleted member 248860]

the PCs I've heard on this case in French sound more Anglo than FFL to me (I come from a French-speaking family).

The officer who did yesterday’s briefing is fluent, but is clearly not a native French speaker.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Lots of French in Manitoba, but mostly in the south, not in the Gillam area.

DBM

 

[Inthedetails]

Reminder: Press conference in about 10 minutes
Winnipeg News | Watch Local Breaking News

 

[Kubirai]

I think they would try to hop on the train as it passed slowly through Gillam, maybe getting off at one of the stops between Gillam and Churchill, and then getting back on as the train headed South on Thursday.

View attachment 195106

Yes, I agree that if they did get on a train, they would just hop on and off, avoiding detection.

 

[Gina20]

Lots of French in Manitoba, but mostly in the south, not in the Gillam area.

Métis are well-established in this area.

 

[Deleted member 248860]

I am wondering because there are many Métis settlements in Alberta and Francais is not uncommon in these areas, would there be a lot of Métis people in Northern Manitoba? Any locals around?

There is a very large Métis population in Manitoba, including up north.

 

[M_Shelll1]

I keep going back and forth on planned vs unplanned… it makes such a huge difference in where they’re ultimately headed and what their end game is. @voilet67 ‘s post yesterday made so much sense as to how this could have happened without purposely setting out to go on a murder spree. Before that I was definitely leaning towards planned but the initial route makes more sense if they were heading to Whitehorse than Northern Manitoba.

Someone yesterday (apologies, I don’t remember who) noted how the trip from the Island, across the ferry and a drive up through the northern mountains could have taken 3 days without anything suspect going on, I asked because I’ve driven through the Rocky mountains on the Trans Canada a few times and it’s really slow going in some parts so unless there’s a body or 2 hidden along that path I don’t think they headed out for the express purpose of murder.

The different locations from Grandma & Dad could a simple misunderstanding “if Whitehorse doesn’t pan out we’ll try Red Deer…”
Has it been shown for sure if they did or didn’t make it to Whitehorse?

 

[Herat]

If you've ever been on a hunter training survival camp, you soon learn that there isn't a lot of food out there, and it can be hard to find. Yes, berries and fish are there to be had, for now.

Who owned the camper? One of those two may have lots of outdoor experience hunting and fishing. This is what people do on Vancouver Island in small communities. How many have a deer in the freezer for meat over the winter? We know nothing about one of them. Hunting and fishing are skills people learn from their families when they're growing up.

The story we got was that they “played” survivalist games for a night or two, but neither appears to be truly experienced outdoorsmen -they just play at it.

 

[otto]

I was sortof assuming it (it being regina connection) was more sensationalism, especially since the original article specifically mentions its not believed to be connected. But I havnt seen it "debunked" and it seems to be a possibility at least, to me. Is there something I am missing that definitely rules this out? Also the article mentioned one of the teens mother lives in regina, is that true or is AU news really that sensationalist (or maybe I picked a particularly unreliable site, not sure)

LE seems to think they are still near gilliam, thats a strong indicator to me they likely are, I suppose im taking possibilities into account without doing the same for probabilities.

So basically Im saying I agree it seems to be unsubstantiated, sensationalist, speculation, but wondering what it being 'debunked' entails and if you have some opinion or evidence regarding it so I can put the unlikely scenario aside

RCMP have very quickly followed their trail, identified their activities and tracked them to Gillam. There's a slim chance that they had a second car before they arrived in Gillam, in which case they are long gone. They had a second car before they torched their camper truck, so maybe they had a second car before they torched the Rav4.

 

[Zella]

Because this is Canada. Most people are not armed.

Yes, I understand that. I guess the point I've been trying to make--but not make well--is a lot of folks are acting like LF and CD were really obvious/easy targets, as was LD, and specifically targeted for that reason. I just don't think that is necessarily true.

I don't think BS and KM were putting that much thought into who they target. I think it is more crimes of opportunity--they see people on the side of the road on an isolated road with nobody else nearby--and they strike. It's just more an unfortunate accident that they come across a laidback, good-natured tourist couple and a kindly botany professor. They could just as easily happened upon a bunch of roughnecks.

 

[Kubirai]

SBM

I think something about the isolation is part of it, too, because they might not have realized exactly who their victims were when they pulled over. They just see an isolated vehicle and decide to go for it.

The reason I say that: Even though we know that LF was a gentle guy because of the anecdotes shared about him by people who knew him, just to look at pictures of him, he's a big dude. Even though BS is an inch taller than LF, he's a lot skinnier. He would not have been my first choice to attempt to rob for that reason. Despite the reports about his height also being 6'4", in the picture of them standing together, KM looks heaver than BS but a couple of inches shorter, but he still looks much less sturdy than LF.

Lucas may have tried to grab the gun, causing the killer to fire through the rear window.

 

[otto]

I keep going back and forth on planned vs unplanned… it makes such a huge difference in where they’re ultimately headed and what their end game is. @voilet67 ‘s post yesterday made so much sense as to how this could have happened without purposely setting out to go on a murder spree. Before that I was definitely leaning towards planned but the initial route makes more sense if they were heading to Whitehorse than Northern Manitoba.

Someone yesterday (apologies, I don’t remember who) noted how the trip from the Island, across the ferry and a drive up through the northern mountains could have taken 3 days without anything suspect going on, I asked because I’ve driven through the Rocky mountains on the Trans Canada a few times and it’s really slow going in some parts so unless there’s a body or 2 hidden along that path I don’t think they headed out for the express purpose of murder.

The different locations from Grandma & Dad could a simple misunderstanding “if Whitehorse doesn’t pan out we’ll try Red Deer…”
Has it been shown for sure if they did or didn’t make it to Whitehorse?

I think Whitehorse can be ruled out because of the timeline. They left Port Alberni on July 12. On July 14 they were near Liard Hot Springs murdering the Australian/USA couple. Maybe they stopped in Whitehorse between the July 14/15 murders and the July 19 murder.

 

[sleuth3000]

RCMP have very quickly followed their trail, identified their activities and tracked them to Gillam. There's a slim chance that they had a second car before they arrived in Gillam, in which case they are long gone. They had a second car before they torched their camper truck, so maybe they had a second car before they torched the Rav4.

Seems then, we are more or less in agreement that its quite unlikely, but possible?
Yet someone above said it was debunked days ago but didnt mention how/why
I'm just wondering if theres hard evidence I missed or if we're just saying the chance is remote its more worth exploring other avenues

 

[Jealoushe]

Press conference? Updates??!!

 

[MesquiteO21]

Dog's bark a family's security
Donna Lundie is relying on her dog to bark if the fugitives approach her home at night.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/fox-lake-nightly-community-patrol-fugitives-1.5225799

Dogs...by the mention of this I recall my memory of dogs while traveling in northern areas. Everybody has a dog, a large dog, dogs everywhere, riding in cabs or truckboxes or in the yard, not fenced in like in urban areas.

i hope she keeps an eye on the dog though..they've already killed 3 people in cold blood, i doubt they'd spare a dog (although there was that serial killer on Blood Mountain in GA i think, who tortured and killed a girl who was hiking with her dog. Apparently said he couldn't kill the dog because he's a "softy" But i digress).