Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Salem, Mar 11, 2012.
Please continue here.
Remember TOS and post responsibily.
I wonder if DNA tests include testing for signs of sexual assault or pregnancy ...
In Georgian language there is same kind of forum and topic about Mariam. Last days I was reading that forum and one comment of psychologist was interesting. She underlined that if Mariam decided to suicide and walked so long distance during 1.5 hours, as usual after such physical activities and duration of time people change mind to suicide.
It is difficult for me to imagine that she walked so long distance and nobody noticed her. Maybe she used public transport to reach that place.
LT in her interview didn't disclose questions investigators gave her. She says that "she refrains from disclosure due to the interests of the investigation"
Exactly: if she walked that long, and still was able to jump to her death, I would say it would be unusual determination to commit suicide.
There are no busses going that direction from Yonge/Eglinton. Only subway.
It is interesting that she even spoke about being asked any questions if it was in the interest of investigation not to talk about it. Now we know that there is an "investigation".
I've been wondering why she would walk up Yonge at all. Why not take Bathurst to Earl Bales Park - a route she might be more familiar with? Just because her final destination was the Yonge ramp, doesn't necessarily mean that was the street she used. Could she not have entered the park at Bathurst and continued on foot through the park and then via side streets until Yonge? It would have taken her a lot longer and thus explain how she may have jumped after dark.
I don't have time today, but if anyone could map out this alternate route and post it, it would be very helpful. TIA
The only snag in this theory is the backpack. How did it get to Yonge and Eglinton? Did Mariam leave it there, or did someone else find it near her school and dispose of it closer to Yonge?
Oh, so many questions. No wonder LE has more investigating to do.
It would be interesting if LE would be able to find out more about where was initial location for the backpack. Yonge/Eglinton is pretty far from Bathurst/Eglinton - some 30 minute walk. If she left her backpack near FHCI, and someone brought it close to another high school (North Toronto Collegiate Institute) to leave it there - how this all make sense? Sounds like conicidence, but is it?
Also, I remember that family said firmly that she was happy and not depressed ( except George, who mentioned once something about possibility of her being depressed, but it was immediately dismissed). People do not go and kill themselves out of blue. There must be someone who knew her who could confirm the real state of her mind around the time she arrived to Canada.
This is just a guess and a theory, but suppose she dropped it somewhere near the school. Another student (child or teenager) saw it, hoped it contained something valuable and took it with him. Found out there was nothing of value, dropped it closer to it's final location. This could have happened numerous times and it could even have been an adult. I have always suspected that the man who eventually turned it in had it in his possession a lot longer than he admitted. It's all far-fetched, but what about this case isn't?
At the time, I took the family's word and never once suspected suicide. Another reason I didn't was because her body was not found within a few weeks. Most suicides don't bother hiding too well and there are usually clues left behind.
But in retrospect, I can see how bipolar disorder or depression could go undetected, especially by her family here, who only had her for two or three months. There are plenty of people who commit suicide and not one person suspected the inclination.
Again, I'm not positive that this is what happened, but I'm trying to analyze every possibility that sounds feasible. This sounds as feasible now to me as anything else - especially when looking at how introverted Mariam was.
Thanks Picasso, that makes sense, lots of people tend to go for a long walk when they are feeling either angry, sad, confused, overwhelmed, stressed out, etc, and have the need for 'fresh air' so to speak.
IF that was the case with Mariam, her abandoning her backpack would indicate that she had already made that decision, and no amount of walking/thinking will make her change her mind.
Her mother said she had come from the Dragon Boat races very happy the day before, all rosy cheeks telling very excitedly about the day .... so hard to imagine her mood changed so dramatically the next morning, specially because as Outcast said, it was a beautiful sunny September morning....I had always thought that suicides mostly happened during dark hours. JMHO.
Trust me ~n/t~ there was a video clip that showed Mariam's parents showing her drawings...I'm not making this up...wish I could find the video clip, but I cannot even remember which date, and lots of videos are no longer available.
Perhaps someone else here remembers seeing it .... I guess that recent article you posted is referring to her not writing in a journal...I was referring to her drawing pictures.
I just found this video about the helicopter search. It also confirms that Mariam's clothes from Sunday were retrieved by LE after her disappearance. It made me very sad to watch this again.
I can't believe I found that video clip I was talking about!! It's not the full version though, but we can still see her drawings.
Global TV VIDEO: ( Mariam's Sketch Book shown around the 1:24 mark )
Slew of much older videos, including the second one, where a "witness" recalls seeing someone who looked like MM arguing in a car with a man.
The first video mentions how nothing unusual happened at the DB race and how calm MM appeared to be on her way there. The second video clip with J.Junkin, at the half way mark a man makes a comment about the parked car..
My condolences to Mariam's loved ones and everyone here who came to watch out for and care about this lovely girl. Such a sad end.
After Mariam's bag was found, Outcast and I met to retrace Mariam's steps (in the earlier threads we posted photos and video of the areas of interest). I remember stopping at an overpass as we were walking and discussing whether she may have taken her life and that she could have jumped from one of the overpasses in Toronto. But surely by that time, someone would have found her if she had jumped? The answer was sadly 'no'.
I lost a friend to suicide over ten years ago. My beautiful, bright, charming friend jumped off the Bloor Viaduct. While many people can look at Mariam's possible end as being unthinkable, I know the unthinkable can and does happen.
With the benefit of hindsight, and with the presumption of suicide, for me the answers seem to be clear:
Mariam chose not to walk with her brother through the back doors of the school as they had done on the previous 3 or 4 mornings, she chose to walk around the school to the front so that she could simply walk off school property without having to explain anything to her brother or alert him in any way. She had time and freedom to carry out her plan.
I think she may have walked to Yonge and Eglinton and set her bag down there; she no longer needed it and leaving it close to where she would jump would flag where she died. I think she wanted to die as discretely and quietly as she had lived. I think she would have been surprised by how many people would end up searching for her.
The overpass she chose was close to the park she had been to with her family, she was familiar and comfortable with the area. I wouldn't have guessed it would be there because of the height of the overpass: approximately 50 feet. In comparison the Bloor Viaduct is approxiately 130 feet. How could she be so certain that she would die falling from that height? Or that someone would witness the fall and she might be saved?
The 401 is one of the busiest highways in the North America. Did she just somehow slip over in broad daylight without even one motorist noticing? Or did she go there and wait to do it under cover of the night? My friend chose the latter and her remains were not discovered until sunrise.
There's a documentary called 'The Bridge' which shows actually footage of people jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge. Some of the jumpers simply walked along the bridge, mounted the barrier and slipped over in one swift movement. No fanfair, no sitting on the edge in conteplation. And some of the winesses doubted what their eyes had seen, the act was so swift. Is that what Mariam did?
What I learned after my friend's death is that when a person has decided on suicide, and they have a plan, they might feel a sense of relief as they now have a clear path to get them out of whatever pain they might be living with. Also, once a person has a clear plan to kill themselves, it is very difficult to take them off-course or deter them from doing it.
I think Mariam suffered the loss of her family from a young age for many years, and she was then sent to a new unfamiliar country away from everything she knew to live with family she hadn't seen for the last five formative years.
I hope that she is at peace, and I hope that her family will find peace as well.
I agree with all what you wrote. However, let's not forget that Mariam was new to the city. How possibly could she develop such an elaborate plan without anyone knowing about it? If that is true, that she planned to walk from FHCI, drop off her backpack at Yonge and Eglinton ( 30 minutes walk ) and continue walking north on Yonge towards 401 ( another more than an hour walking ), that sounds to me planned very well in advance ( she did not want her final destination to be known therefore leaving backpack at Yonge/Eglinton - to me this is a bit of a stretch for suicidal person - why would she care about it?).
I remember you and I discussing possibility of suicide. I thought of it as possibility, although at the time there was no indication that she may had been depressed. I made my conclusions based on intuition, and knowing that when someone decides to take their own life, they are almost happy as if they found the solution to their unbearable pain. Is that why Mariam was "happy" after she came back home from the race? Because she knew she was going to end her life next day? In all this, one thing bothers me: she did not spend enough time in this city to know about overpasses and other places that would be "convenient" to jump from. So, how did she end up on that overpass? I am not sure that I can say that was the place of her choice to commit suicide.
They refer to the drawing book as a "sketch book". I believe the journal is something entirely different.
I would never think you would make anything up. It caught my attention because I had remembered reading about her journal/diary and she had written nothing in it according to the article I posted.
If anyone who knows how to get a screen shot of her drawings and post them, it would be great.
If I remember correctly, her first class that day was English and her brother was in the same class. When she didn't show up, was that when it was immediately reported? I still haven't found when the family reported her missing. I found an article mentioning a missing persons report was issued the following day but is that when LE decided to issue the report or is that when she was reported missing by her family?
Does anyone remember?
The 97 Yonge bus goes all the way up Yonge Street. She could have taken it from Yonge and Eglinton up to the 401 or walked from York Mills station, which is very close.
I'm wondering why George's words are dismissed so easily - what he said early on matches 100% what LE is saying following an autopsy of MM's remains.
Would still like to see George's paintings - a previous post did not show results when tried as posted. I like that he seems to be his own person regardless of what is happening around him that is out of his control. I have a spot or two that needs to be filled.