GUILTY Canada - Marie-France Comeau, 37, & Jessica Lloyd, 27, slain, Ont, 2009 & 2010 - #6

Discussion in 'Recently Sentenced and Beyond' started by Salem, Oct 21, 2010.

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  1. Salem

    Salem Former Member

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  3. Summersolstice

    Summersolstice New Member

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    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/879245--don-t-destroy-williams-evidence-experts?bn=1

    "Don’t destroy Williams evidence: experts"
    October 21, 2010
    Michelle McQuigge

    The graphic photos and videos documenting the crimes of Col. Russell Williams should be preserved to ensure the convicted killer and sex offender isn’t one day set free, legal experts say.

    As the former commander of Canada’s largest air force base was led off Thursday to begin two concurrent sentences of life in prison with no chance of parole for 25 years, the burning question of how best to handle the most disturbing evidence of his actions was put off for another day.

    Prosecutors say they will destroy the Nissan Pathfinder that tied Williams to the murder of Jessica Lloyd, but plan to wait awhile before discussing the possibility of destroying the photo and video evidence, which includes recordings of the two sex assaults and the killing of Cpl. Marie-France Comeau.

    Destroying the evidence would be a bad idea, warn legal experts who say the images could one day prevent Williams from being granted parole, or from engaging in fancy legal footwork to secure a new trial.

    John Rosen, a Toronto-based criminal lawyer who once defended notorious sex killer Paul Bernardo, said it’s unlikely Williams would mount an appeal of his convictions, given the fact that he pleaded guilty and appeared resigned to spending the rest of his life behind bars.

    But just because a scenario is unlikely doesn’t mean it can’t happen, warned Rosen. Williams could change his mind at any time, he said.

    “What if Mr. Williams wakes up one day and says, ‘Wow, I just got railroaded by my lawyer,’ and hires another lawyer?” Rosen said. “Even if you think it’s open and shut, the court would be obliged to consider the appeal.”

    Two sets of evidence are at play, since the rules are different for exhibits that comprise part of the formal court record, as opposed to evidence that investigators used to build a case, but did not present formally.

    Rosen said evidence shown during the plea and sentencing hearings must stay in court custody for the minimum 30-day appeal period — and there’s always the possibility of an extension being granted. Those exhibits are usually returned to the lawyer who submitted them, and held indefinitely.
    Once the appeal windows are closed, evidence that was not shown in court — such as the video recordings of Williams’ crimes — can be destroyed at the discretion of the legal team.

    Prosecutors don’t usually exercise that right, said Rosen. Instead, they choose to put the evidence into storage in case it’s needed at a later date. Police say Williams’ computer, which contains the incriminating images, will remain under lock and key until a formal decision is made.

    Since the Crown did not present the videos as evidence at the hearings, they likely could be destroyed without much legal wrangling. But that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, Rosen warned.

    “I would be reluctant to destroy original evidence because we don’t know what’s coming in the future.”

    James Morton, a professor at York University’s Osgoode Hall law school in Toronto, described a scenario in which prosecutors would one day regret having destroyed vital evidence.

    “Let’s look ahead 25 years,” Morton said. “(Williams has) survived, he’s been a model prisoner, he’s expressed complete remorse, and we’re now looking at this (elderly) person who’s spent the past 25 years reading the Bible. This video, and the related evidence, is the sort of thing the parole board would look at and say, ‘Yes, we could grant parole, but we’re not going to.’”

    The images could also be used to refute an insanity defence should Williams ever try to mount one, Morton added. Appeals are often filed well after the official deadline has expired, he said.

    It’s not the first time Canadian jurisprudence has wrestled with the contentious issue of graphic video evidence.

    In 1995, when Bernardo was convicted of two counts of first-degree murder in the sex killings of schoolgirls Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy, videotaped recordings of the assaults comprised key evidence that not only sealed Bernardo’s fate, but exposed his ex-wife, Karla Homolka, as a willing accomplice and participant.

    The tapes were also at the centre of a subsequent trial for Ken Murray, Bernardo’s original lawyer, who was charged with obstruction of justice for failing to disclose to the Crown the existence of the tapes, which were not discovered during an exhaustive police search of Bernardo’s southern Ontario home.

    The fact the tapes existed wasn’t revealed publicly until after Crown officials made their infamous plea-bargain deal with Homolka — the so-called “deal with the devil” — in which she agreed to plead guilty to two manslaughter charges and spend 12 years in prison in exchange for her testimony against her ex-husband.

    Murray — who retrieved the tapes at Bernardo’s direction in 1993 and held them for more than 16 months before disclosing them to Rosen, his successor — was acquitted in 2000. Amid pressure from the families of the victims, the tapes were destroyed in December 2001.

    Homolka was released in 2005. Bernardo was declared a dangerous offender, a designation that keeps him behind bars indefinitely. Crown prosecutors say they don’t plan to seek dangerous-offender status for Williams because they don’t believe he’ll ever be set free.

    Rosen, who is among the few people who ever saw the Bernardo tapes, said it’s easy to understand why families would want such evidence destroyed.
    It’s “a violation of the memory of the deceased,” Rosen said. “I’m sure they would feel that they were being used or abused again, and that they were being victimized again. And I can see that there’s a lot of truth to that.”

    Morton said he, too, is sympathetic to the families of the victims, and understands why they would want to see the photos and recordings destroyed. Justice, he warned, would be better served if they were not.

    “It’s highly unlikely that anyone will argue that Col. Williams was a wrongfully convicted individual, but there’s no reason to destroy this evidence.”"
     
  4. flipflop

    flipflop Active Member

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  5. LadyL

    LadyL Well-Known Member

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    does anyone have the link handy for the redacted portions of the interrogation?

    someone posted it in the last thread but I've just searched & can't find it

    TIA
     
  6. enzeder

    enzeder New Member

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  7. greenthumb

    greenthumb Active Member

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    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/879404

    Interesting article about RW's 'apology'. I was bothered by the judge's assessment that it was 'sincere'. I didn't hear it, of course, but it reads mechanical, unemotional, distant, shallow, so I was interested to read that this reporter had the same take on it.

    Also interesting to me was her statement that RW lacks people skills, that he does not know how to connect with people, that he is not 'affable' and therefore an odd choice for promotion. Admittedly, I have not had the opportunity to read all the articles linked here, but from what I had read up to now, I had the impression that he was well liked, outgoing, easy with people and that just did not fit together well with the reality that he is a monstrous, vile being.

    This description of him as 'taciturn', that 'it isn’t in his nature to expound or analyze', and that 'he was an odd choice as colonel at the Trenton base', that he is an 'awkward man with no chat or grasp of the appropriate thing to say to other humans'... I find I can much more easily reconcile the man this describes with the horrible truth of what we all now know he is.
     
  8. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Well-Known Member

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    Mallick: A psychopath’s monotone act of contrition


    "Traumatize”? Williams’ crimes didn’t traumatize the families. He killed their daughters. The families are finished off. They said so to his face in their victim impact statements. As for “family and friends,” that’s a phrase you use in a Christmas newsletter. “As a result of what I’ve done” is what you say when the barbecue explodes at the lake because you bought a discount propane tank.

    In his version, his “assaults” caused his rape victims to “suffer terribly” and the families whose little daughters’ panties were draped over his face were “seriously distressed.”

    No. They were scared out of their wits and sickened to the depths of their souls.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/879404


    Comment by Me: Thank-you, Greenthumb, that was a good article. The paragraphs above were worth repeating, to me.
     
  9. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Well-Known Member

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    Healing event planned in Belleville, Ont., in wake of Col. Williams crimes

    By: The Canadian Press
    Posted: 22/10/2010 7:28 AM |

    BELLEVILLE, Ont. - The organizer of a “healing event” hopes hundreds of people will show up in the market square today to help the community get over the shocking crimes of Col. Russell Williams.

    Belleville resident Hazel Lloyst says she organized the noon-hour event because people in the community need a way to start the healing process.

    Lloyst says it will also be a chance for Belleville-area residents to show their support for the victims’ families.

    It will start with people joining hands in a circle, with some uplifting music and words of comfort from a minister who specializes in helping people through this kind of trauma.

    http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/ca...in-wake-of-col-williams-crimes-105517128.html
     
  10. Macright

    Macright Former Member

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  11. Summersolstice

    Summersolstice New Member

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    No doubt linguistics experts and others will analyze this to pieces before long. One thing I noticed was that he brought it back to himself, and his family being destroyed, using a passive tone.

    "I stand before you, your honour, indescribably ashamed. I know that the crimes I've committed have traumatized many people. The families and friends of Marie-France Comeau and Jessica Lloyd, in particular, have suffered and continue to suffer profound desperate pain and sorrow as a result of what I've done. My assaults of (publication of name prohibited) and Ms. (Laurie) Massicotte have caused them to suffer terribly as well, I know.

    Numerous victims of the break and enters I've committed have been very seriously distressed as a result of my so having invaded their most intimate privacy.

    My family, your honour, has been irreparably harmed. The understandable hatred that was expressed yesterday, and has been palpable throughout the week, has me recognize this. (There are) those who will find it impossible to accept, but the fact is, I very deeply regret what I have done and the harm that I know I have caused to many. I've committed despicable crimes, your honour. In the process, betraying my family, my friends and colleagues, and the Canadian Forces.

    I shall spend the rest of my life regretting, above all, that I've ended two vibrant, innocent and cherished lives.

    My very sincere hope is that my detailed confession on the night of Feb. 7, my full co-operation with investigators since, and ultimately my guilty pleas earlier this week have, in some way, served to temper the very serious harm I caused my victims, and their families and friends."

    From: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/what-williams-said-in-court-105510193.html


    I think remorse involves directly taking accountability and responsibility for your actions, and stating quite clearly in a direct and active tone what you have done (JMO). A better speech writer might have written, "I have destroyed the lives of my victims and their families. For that, I am solely responsible. I cannot take back my actions, which I deeply regret. I do not deserve your forgiveness, and you do not owe it to me. Nothing I do will ever restore the lives I've taken and the people I've damaged..."

    A better speech writer would have done that, IMO, and wouldn't have brought it back to him and his family. But that speech wasn't written by a better speech writer.
     
  12. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Well-Known Member

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    Russell Williams Confession Video: Part 1

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzh3adTWZOg&feature=player_embedded


    Russell Williams Confession Video: Part 2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ah51vPzcVEM&feature=player_embedded


    Russell Williams Confession Video: Part 3

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mQA2yQFZ8o&feature=player_embedded


    Redacted Transcript of Russell Williams Video Confession (128 of 309 Pages) to Det.-Sgt.Jim Smyth OPP Behavioral Science Division

    Link Here


    Agreed Statement of Facts:
    Warning Graphic Content

    Day 1 (*Note: Original CBC version is now gone. Toronto Star Version here)

    Day 2


    Evidence Photo: Crime Map of Jessica Lloyd’s House:

    Link Here


    Evidence Photos: Boots, Tires, SUV

    Link Here


    Evidence Photos: Russell Williams, Lingerie; WARNING: Graphic Content

    Link Here


    Evidence Photos: Russell Williams Letters to Victims, Wife

    Link Here


    Williams Charge Sheet:

    Link Here


    Photos of Williams wife here, Mary Liz, which are screenshots from the Fifth Estate Documentary, Above Suspicion.

    Link Here


    Fifth Estate TV Show

    Above Suspicion

    Link Here
     
  13. Summersolstice

    Summersolstice New Member

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    Has anyone heard of the Macdonald triad, which I believe now has a fourth component?
     
  14. Summersolstice

    Summersolstice New Member

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  15. maxfactor

    maxfactor New Member

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    I had been wondering about RW's concern for his cat when he absolutely has no concern for human life.
     
  16. Summersolstice

    Summersolstice New Member

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    The Fifth Estate will be doing another show on this tonight:

    http://www.throng.ca/documentary/cbcs-fifth-estate-schedule-change-confession-russell-williams
     
  17. nobodyzgirl

    nobodyzgirl Active Member

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    I have. I'm not sure about a fourth component, though the first three are:

    1. bedwetting
    2. firesetting
    3. torturing small animals.

    I'm sure we will never hear whether RW had a bedwetting issue growing up. Same goes with firesetting. We do know that before this he did not have a criminal record, so if he was a firesetter, than I assume at some point in his life he'd have been caught and we would have heard about it - JMO.

    It's been noted that RW loved animals so I doubt that he ever tortured small animals

    "Neighbours say Williams loves animals and likes holding his cat Rose in his arms. While mowing the lawn, he would reportedly examine the lawn for frogs, dragging his feet through the grass so he wouldn't harm them."

    http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/762547

    I also understand these things are based on childhood behaviour to determine sociopaths, my opinion is if he is showing love of animals now, he did that as a child.

    RW does not behave as a sociopath. A sociopath would never attempt to commit suicide, would never confess to their crimes (unless there was some benefit to them). RW certainly made mistakes that a seasoned serial killer would never make - like leaving tire tracks, footprints, fingerprints, etc.
     
  18. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Well-Known Member

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  19. deputydawg2

    deputydawg2 New Member

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    Thanks, summer, and please forgive my insertion of italics and some of the bolds.

    If you screw up your eyes just so, and remember RW's arrogance and pride in avoiding being caught, baffling law enforcement for so long, many of his statements can be read as reminding the court, law enforcement, the victims, of his power over them and that it was he who solved their case for them by leading them to more evidence and JL's body. Looked at this way, he is bragging!! The quavering voice and crocodile tears are a cover-up, imo.

    "...I shall spend the rest of my life regretting, above all, that I've ended two vibrant, innocent and cherished lives..."

    Which 2? Normal people would conclude he refers to MFC and JL. But does he?? I tend to think he means himself and MEH.

    Make no mistake, this SOB has been a master at deception, double-dealing and double-talk all his life. His words are masks to make people think what he wants them to think, all the while having an entirely different meaning for himself.

    He was a master at cryptology, remember, and wrote messages in code soon after being incarcerated.
     
  20. Wondergirl

    Wondergirl Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
    Link

    We will never forget the victims

    Rest in Peace

    Jessica Elizabeth Lloyd
    Marie France Comeau
     
  21. Summersolstice

    Summersolstice New Member

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    Ah, I see:

    "My very sincere hope is that my detailed confession on the night of Feb. 7, my full co-operation with investigators since, and ultimately my guilty pleas earlier this week have, in some way, served to temper the very serious harm I caused my victims, and their families and friends."

    Self-serving, much?
     
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