CANADA Canada - Nicole Morin, 8, Toronto, 30 July 1985

[Kittymama]

Here's another interesting link: http://elleeseymour.com/2007/05/21/the-missing-nicole-morin/

The first comment has a list of everyone who lived in that building at the time, supposedly.

More stuff I picked up over the last couple of days, and forgot to mention:

--Nicole's father, Art, at one point suspected people from his church (the Worldwide Church of God).
--Before her disappearance, she wrote something about how she was going to disappear. I'm not really clear on what exactly she wrote, or when/where she wrote it.

To me, that picture from the Dutch CD-ROM looks uncannily like Nicole, but I know nothing about that sort of stuff, and it's a profile pic. And like someone said earlier in this thread, it does seem far-fetched. Someone hanging out in her building just happens to have ties to this pedophile ring? Hmmm.

ETA: That's also why I don't believe it was Lovie Riddle. What would he have been doing in her building? Although I did see that one of the supposed tenants was a "D. Riddell." But the spelling's different...but still...that's kinda weird.

 

[Chorley8]

It would be great if as many people as possible on WS just go through that list of who was living in the apt. There is a really good chance one of them is involved - big list though. Thanks for linking to it.

 

[Chorley8]

Worth reviewing info about the Church which has now renamed itself:

Grace Communion International - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Endless interesting stuff a radio station named KORE a splinter church in Boise among other places.

 

[Chorley8]

GMW-Nicole Morin-1985-Missing 8yr Old Re-Enactment-Toronto - YouTube

This reenactment says Nicole never made it to the ground floor. Ermphasizes she may have vanished on her floor or on the way down.

Max Haines later on this video says there is "some evidence" she made it to the ground floor.

Two very different things, crucial IMO. Anyone know what Haines 'evidence' is and sorry if this has been covered before.

If she went outside her apartment then lots of things become possible.

If she goes missing in the building that narrows things.

1. I am sure they emphasized her own floor since that represents the least chance of anyone seeing her.
2. Ditto with each additional floor downward the possibility increases for someone else to see her.
3. Possibility she was taken to the basement either by luck not being seen (unlikely IMO) or by someone who could take control of the elevator (staff or someone with the code or key).
4. There has to be stairs on each floor these are usually not used much especially on the 20th floor! Now why would Nicole take the stairs or check the stairs?
a.) someone tempted her with something to show her something a kitten whatever
b.) she could have been grabbed quickly hand over mouth take her to the stairs.
c.) but difficult to taker her down to the bottom via the stairway someone might be using stairs on lower floors so strange.
d.) if taken down either elevator to nearby floor or stairs (since further possibility increases for someone else to see her) apartments close to the elevators and stairs should be given special attention (again) by LE.
5. 20th floor: what about the access upwards to the roof?
6 someone I think has asked about other elevators service or whatever.

 

[Chorley8]

NOT off topic I promise.

Does anyone know if jewellers use cases of any kind that could hide a child? That they might have in the home then take to their shop?
Would a child Nicole's age be tempted by a ring, a piece of jewellery?

 

[Chorley8]

Say the 18th floor or 19th floor: need to get in that building to see where a particular apt. is.

1. Nicole nabbed hand over mouth whisked two floors down.

2. Tempted by something "take the stairs don't tell anyone, a surprise" etc.

So police eventually went in every apt. With dogs or without?

 

[Chorley8]

Since this case is cold cold cold I will try a scenario based on a little bit of logic and a bit of guessing.

1. Police would have have really examined the 20th floor where she disappeared so let's assume for now those residents are cleared.
2. They can't give equal attention to everyone though I am sure they tried.
3. Since she wasn't seen going down most likely scenario is that she taken to a nearby floor initially say the 17th 18th or 19th.
Let me just try out a few additional things let me know if they are too speculative and I will delete:
4. Perp of Euro non-Anglo descent charmed by some element of that in Nicole.
5. Connossieur type loves fine things the good life in his perversion this is represented by...charming pretty girls.
6. Likes her name.
7. Immature at some level "loves" Nicole.
8. Has some item that could lure Nicole pets are birds are classic but I am thinking more of some pretty thing. We know Nicole's ears were pierced - jewellery?
9. Moved from Toronto and probably Canada Has North American (US) and European presence.
10. Motive: this is actually tough. Could be overtly sexual, could be mixed with financial but it is not impossible she was taken to be kept. As a daughter in the making but sexualized.

I know much of the info about Nicole has been godawful (I am not blaming anyone for that at all) I mean the Zandvoort and "a steak named Nicole" info - it sort of tilts you towards thinking her dead.

At this moment IMO it is totally possible Nicole is alive. She would be coming to an age where if she was psychologically manipulated, drugged, told lies about her Mom and Dad things might start to break through - she could recognize herself in a photo or age-enhanced composite.

Good to remember a very old and cold case but Nicole would still be a youngish woman!

Would love to know about dogs. Were they used? What kind cadaver dogs, dogs searching Nicole or both?

 

[Chorley8]

To my hypothetical ID previous post (ok I admit it is a bit more than that but this is WS and we have to avoid slander) I will add that the perpetrator living on the upper floors of the building has a son or daughter Nicole's age.

Like magic, it now becomes very easy to lure Nicole into the apt. saying X wants to see you or has something for you etc.

Getting Nicole out of the building: that is where the tragedy of the one week LE delay comes into play.

Many good posts on the short thread 4, 5, 8, 9, 13 for a start.

And 39!

Adding: think perp knew some French. Did Nicole know any French surely at least a few sentences worth if it was Mom's first language?

 

[Chorley8]

By European I meant culturally could be Middle Eastern etc. actual ancestry

 

[Chorley8]

Pace my scenarios: a previous poster brought up a very good point: at that moment assuming a kidnapping within the building the perp would not know whether LE had been notified or not.

So they assume she would have to have been taken out of the building quickly.

Possible but problematical obviously.

We are a bit behind on this case on WS I see. Just a few facts if they are facts for now:

1. Cal Millar reported well after the fact in the Star or a book that Nicole's shoe was found on the elevator. Is this a fact? Obviously huge clue if a fact.
2. There were one or two very serious suspects that lived in the building.
3. Building Nicole lived in called the Buckingham that interests me slightly see my amateur character analysis above.
4. As has been said Nicole's friend lived in building reported in media o/w at first.
5. Dad still very keen on case (see Dotr's link above though it doesn't work anymore too bad) and thinks she could still be alive.
6. The # 1 suspect not my # 1 suspect or person of interest though I am mostly new to this case had heard of it but knew little - still don't know much. But something did catch my eye.

Sure LE would have checked this but: July 30th she goes missing. Who moved out that weekend. People are always moving out of large buildings end of month. Very easy to remove Nicole dead or hopefully alive. But....that doesn't seem to fit with the somewhat impromptu abduction if it was so. Yet we don't know what other attempts or stalking attacks she suffered before the abduction. I wonder if LE has a list of who moved out that weekend.

Hardly my only idea though not fully necessary for any plot or plan.

 

[Chorley8]

Sorry for hogging not trying to:

1.Haines remark on video: it seems there was a female witness who claimed Nicole got off on the ground floor and the woman continued to the basement.

2. It seems that LE disbelieve that sighting perhaps because....

3. If the remark by Miller about her shoe being found it would seem to contradict her unless of course Nicole went back upstairs, forgot something.

 

[Chorley8]

Watching a film about Mark Dutroux may his name be cursed for eternity I was impressed with the fact that the 12 year old victim who survived was told that her parents had abandoned her that she was supposed to be executed but he was her friend etc. etc.

Nicole much younger. (This is in reference to the idea that Nicole could be alive and one aspect of this could be that lies were told to her about her family.)

I would like to know more about her prescient "I am going to disappear" remark made I think at school - what the exact context was. I admit I am operating on a very thin basis but in line with my earlier amateur character analysis I will add and please I admit this is hypothetical perhaps to a fault (but I do have a 'person of interest' in mind):

someone who does amateur magic and magic shows. Can make things disappear.

 

[Chorley8]

When I have time will try to bring links to articles on Nicole. There is a composite of the woman who was seem on her floor with a notebook 40 minutes before Nicole went missing it was published in the paper - will try to find time to find. It seems she was never identified.

The woman could be a man of course, disguised.

Elsewhere on the net police found a black garment and a plastic bag with a newspaper article from July 31st (day after she goes missing) in a remote part of Pearson airport. Nothing panned out though obviously that is very interesting. If something was really planned out Nicole could be on an airplane before her mother even noticed she was missing.

Her Mom thinks she may have been held in the building for a while on the other hand.

LE interviewed 5,000 people and were active from the 30th the day she was missing. The brought in plans of the building and checked every nook and cranny twice.

The apartment had two floors of underground parking and yes elevators led down to them. Someone quotes LE as saying the parking area was a 'nightmare' I imagine they mean too many possibilities.

 

[dotr]

When I have time will try to bring links to articles on Nicole. There is a composite of the woman who was seem on her floor with a notebook 40 minutes before Nicole went missing it was published in the paper - will try to find time to find. It seems she was never identified.

The woman could be a man of course, disguised.

Elsewhere on the net police found a black garment and a plastic bag with a newspaper article from July 31st (day after she goes missing) in a remote part of Pearson airport. Nothing panned out though obviously that is very interesting. If something was really planned out Nicole could be on an airplane before her mother even noticed she was missing.

Her Mom thinks she may have been held in the building for a while on the other hand.

LE interviewed 5,000 people and were active from the 30th the day she was missing. The brought in plans of the building and checked every nook and cranny twice.

The apartment had two floors of underground parking and yes elevators led down to them. Someone quotes LE as saying the parking area was a 'nightmare' I imagine they mean too many possibilities.

Lots of compiled info here..

http://fondationprincessedecroy.morkhoven.org/07-Nicole-Louise_Morin__sources.htm
bbm.
"n 1987, Nicole’s father theorized that someone from his church took her and she knew about it and even cooperated. Two months before she vanished, she wrote a note in school saying she was going “to disappear”. A slender blond woman holding a notebook was seen at the end of the hall 40 minutes before the disappearance. Nicole did get on the elevator and was seen in the lobby and outside the building, but she took so long, her friend didn’t wait for her. Did she really have other plans? One Toronto Star archived article I read on-line said she WAVED goodbye to her mother when she left to go to the pool behind the building….

I’m trying to find out which church Art Morin went to back in the 80s. Reporter Cal Millar only described it as “fundamentalist”. Perhaps someone decided to place Nicole in another environment because of her parents’ court battles over money….They were separated and Art said he was paying for everything and had nothing left to live on….(ref. Toronto Star, Cal MIllar, July 30, 1987, A21"

 

[Chorley8]

It is amazing nobody sees Nicole and nobody IDs the woman even following the sketch. I will try to get the image here. I had discounted that but now am not sure somebody said online that M. Haines I think had the woman with darker hair.

Not to suggest that I know what happened but in terms of the info you linked to 1. I do not think her Dad is so sold on the Church theory anymore - also there are reports that her Dad hired PIs and it is said LE didn't like that no idea if that is true 2. I am not sure where they got the idea of Nicole cooperating in her disapprearance that seems ridiculous to me 3. "will disappear" yes interesting but maybe a red herring 4. she waved goodbye so what? 4. Princess de Croy they were the group that said they had proved that Nicole was featured in these Euro pron flicks of the most unbelievably sick type. They used craniometry etc. - just to give an opinion I don't think the child pictured is Nicole but this is just one opinion. I believe that sight was hacked and hacked until it disappeared. 5. her Mom possibly had a child daycare in her apt. according to some reports which partially explains why it took her so long to act. 6. If Nicole was seen outside her apt. I would love to have those witness statements.

 

[Chorley8]

Also if it WAS Nicole in that profile pic it would not mean she was dead for sure.

That "Princesse" group seems well intentioned but I think they overstep when they say it is Nicole 100%. I think the truth may be simpler and less macabre I hope so.

 

[Chorley8]

Yikes to my mind the picture of the anon woman seen on Nicole's floor in the composite looks like FB pic of her new "Mom" in my very speculative but not unfounded or ungrounded scenario of a kidnapping by a fellow resident.

Same hair style part in the same place. That person has a FB friend on first page of her Facebook friends page first name Nicole last name beginning F. that also interests me.

I must say going from a kid to an adult in terms of appearance it is very hard to stay focused and analyze and think what the person would look like. The LE aged comps that we have go to early twenties only.

I am starting to see Nicoles not everywhere but more than one (two now).

Maybe I am simply hoping she is alive and going too far in that direction I don't know.

 

[SideKick]

Oddly, I worked with a girl who really really resembled Nicole. Another staff even called her Nicole Morin jokingly. I couldn't believe it! I asked her if she was adopted once, she said no that she looked just like her father. It still freaks me out.

 

[dotr]

Nicole Morin totally vanished 22 years ago aged eight while walking to an elevator in her Toronto apartment block to meet a friend who was waiting for her in the downstairs lobby. She never arrived.
http://elleeseymour.com/2007/05/21/the-missing-nicole-morin/

Bumping these pics of Nicole and hoping that maybe, just maybe - someone chose to 'adopt" and love her, as their very own little girl....

If so, perhaps as a young adult she will recognize herself or someone else will.

 

[SideKick]

Yikes to my mind the picture of the anon woman seen on Nicole's floor in the composite looks like FB pic of her new "Mom" in my very speculative but not unfounded or ungrounded scenario of a kidnapping by a fellow resident.

Same hair style part in the same place. That person has a FB friend on first page of her Facebook friends page first name Nicole last name beginning F. that also interests me.

I must say going from a kid to an adult in terms of appearance it is very hard to stay focused and analyze and think what the person would look like. The LE aged comps that we have go to early twenties only.

I am starting to see Nicoles not everywhere but more than one (two now).

Maybe I am simply hoping she is alive and going too far in that direction I don't know.

Hi, is there a FB link or can you tell me where to search for this info. Unreal!
Thanks!
SK