CANADA - Numerous pedestrians struck by van near Yonge and Finch, Toronto, Apr 2018

Discussion in 'Rampage Killings and Terrorist Attacks' started by dotr, Apr 23, 2018.

  1. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers not today satan

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    Ontario government to investigate jail leak about accused van attacker Alek Minassian

    Not sure how trustworthy these witnesses are, but..

    Accused van killer says in jail that he 'wanted to be shot,' witness says

     
  2. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    re post #317

    Francine Pelletier is not correct in that AM is 'white' as in caucasian.

    He is of Armenian ancestry and Armenian people are either from European or Turkish lineage or both.
    They are from a part of the world where Turks, Europeans and Southern Europeans all lived together for centuries, with some Asian genetics as well.

    His lineage is not at the root of this problem, no matter how she wishes to spin it. Just saying......
     
  3. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers not today satan

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    That doesn't mean the rest of what she said isn't true. I don't believe that was her "spin" on the issue - she had more insight that was correct in addressing the issue. I agree his lineage isn't the root of the problem. Misogyny, toxic masculinity, jealousy, and men believing they are entitled to women's bodies are the root of the problem.
     
  4. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    Thanks dotr.

    I didn't think Lepine was caucasian either but didn't have the time to google him.

    Seems Francine Pelletier is incorrect all round.

    I have just googled Marc Lepine and he was also NOT middle class by any means.

    His childhood was filled with instability and violence from the father, when he was present.

    His parents separated when he was approx 7 yrs old and their assets were seized as the father failed to make payments of any sort.

    If that is middle class, I will eat MY chocolate hat. Wish the CBC did some basic checking of fact, eh?

    We know nothing of AMs family situation so cannot comment.

    Must say, I have no idea why Ms Pelletier feels that these events are comparable but if she must, she could at least have a basic understanding of the people of whom she speaks.
     
  5. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers not today satan

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    I thought it would be worthwhile to read what she said because she was on Lepine's list. I don't understand how being mistaken about one thing (though overall she is correct - we live in a patriarchy and white hetero men are at the top of the ladder) means the rest of what she said should be ignored. I think her main point was we can't live in denial any longer. We have to tackle this issue. We need to pay attention.

    This article doesn't mention race so maybe it's acceptable?

    If incels’ violent misogyny had a role in Toronto, we mustn’t downplay it

     
  6. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    I wish the 'powers that be' had the intestinal fortitude to call this horrible event what it was......terrorism.

    One person setting out to terrorize as many people as possible at one time.

    The first thing on the news was that it WAS NOT terrorism. Really??

    We are being fed a sterilized tale here, while how many peoples lives have been ruined??

    Yes, 10 dead and 14 injured but what about all of their loved ones/friends etc who are deeply affected by the lose of them? What of their lives to come?

    What of the people who work/live/play in that area and forever more will be upset walking the area?

    AM wanted to be shot, he failed miserably at that......but he also wanted to cause terror and there, he succeeded.

    Now, LE and politicos, call it what it is. We have broad shoulders, we can handle it.
     
    x_files likes this.
  7. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...r-those-killed-and-injured-in-van-attack.html
     
  8. bluesneakers

    bluesneakers not today satan

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  9. ldlager

    ldlager Well-Known Member

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  10. BooBooTheFool

    BooBooTheFool Member

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    Misogyny and entitlement are the real roots of the problem. Young men are becoming radicalized online.

    Here;s an NPR article about the incel movement. I used to just look at what was going on in the incel sub on reddit and i'm not surprised that sub was banned because it was violent, hateful misogynistic stuff with a tinge of racism (frequent topics were about why rape of "roasties" should be legal). They moved on to a new sub with the same old thing. Roasties is slang for slut because they think when a woman has a lot of sex her labia become like a roast beef sandwich because their only knowledge of women comes from porn and toxic beliefs already present in mainstream society.
    Elliot Rodger was an incel and also a racist who was angry that black men and asian men had sex with white women.

    https://www.npr.org/2018/04/29/6067...nline-community-behind-the-toronto-van-attack

     
  11. EuTuCroquet?

    EuTuCroquet? “What's happening to my special purpose!?”

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    From the link:

    “The issue is not about sex, or even sexual entitlement. In my experience working clinically with incarcerated violent and sexual offenders, these crimes are instances of antisociality manifesting as hatred toward women.”

    Yep. And they can often identify as incels and display, by definition, a toxic form of masculinity. It is also definitely antisocial behavior. It’s not one or the other. It’s both. It’s an antisocial, toxic Mickey Mouse Club of sorts where the antisocial behavior manifests as very real displays of hate toward women. IMO

    Makes perfect sense to me.
     
  12. nuff

    nuff Well-Known Member

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    Because both events created horror and induced fear and were rooted in misogynism. And as she was directly affected, I believe she has every right to voice her opinion. And Marc Lepine had a Franco-Canadian mother and an Algerian father (actual name Gamil Gharbi.) Guess we could argue about whether he was Caucasian, but what's the point? (That took me all of 30 seconds to google.)
     
  13. human

    human Well-Known Member

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  14. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

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    In reference to last sentence.

    Why are Boys More Likely to Have Autism?

    https://www.appliedbehavioranalysisedu.org/why-are-boys-more-likely-to-have-autism/
     
  15. angelainwi

    angelainwi Certified Trauma Counselor

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  16. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Making these statistics very concerning, imo.
    https://www.thestar.com/news/insigh...the-gender-imbalances-of-india-and-china.html
     
  17. JDG

    JDG Websleuther

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    The charges have been upped to 16 charges of attempted murder along with the 10 charges of murder.

    His lawyer wouldn't speak about how he's doing in jail, about the rumour of threats to the family or the family in general.

    He did address the issue of terrorism and said there is no indication whatsoever of terrorism in this case.
     
  18. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Suspect in Toronto van attack that left 10 people dead to appear in court
    TORONTO - The man accused of driving a van down a busy Toronto street, killing 10 people and injuring more than a dozen others, is expected to appear in court today."

    "Minassian appeared in court by video in early May when the Crown and his lawyer agreed to adjourn until September due to the large volume of disclosure involved in the case.

    Police said shortly after the attack that they hadn't identified a motive, but the evidence didn't meet the threshold for terrorism charges".
     
  19. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Update.
    Case of North York van attack suspect put over to November
    "The case is set to return to court on Nov. 1, though that date could change if the Attorney General approves a request made by the Crown to move the case to a higher court without a preliminary inquiry, Bytensky said.

    But Bytensky said it was still unlikely the case would proceed to trial any time soon.

    “Everybody still needs to be able to get prepared,” he said. “That really doesn't change whether we're going straight to Superior Court or whether we're staying with the Ontario Court of Justice for a longer period.”
     
    bluesneakers and Gardenista like this.
  20. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Long article about '' Incels" with many references to the accused van attack suspect, AM.
    Jan 27 2019
    Why incels are a 'real and present threat' for Canadians | CBC News

    "In April 2018, Alek Minassian allegedly drove a van into pedestrians in Toronto, killing 10 and injuring 16 others. Before the attack, a post appeared on Minassian's Facebook account that said "the Incel Rebellion has already begun."

    "Involuntary celibates or incels are an online brotherhood of men who say they are unsuccessful in their romantic attempts with women.

    Incels interact in forums online, like 4chan, Reddit and a few public incel boards, and even on popular social media platforms including Facebook and YouTube. They often express extreme feelings of misogyny and hatred.

    In the worst cases, their online misogyny turns to violent fantasies, where many online encourage rape, violence and in some cases, killing.

    Experts interviewed by The Fifth Estate have identified 120 instances of extreme violence in Canada by right-wing groups, including incels, in the past 30 years. This is compared to only seven by Islamist-inspired extremists.

    Authorities in Canada and the U.S. are often quick to call these incidents "lone wolf" attacks, but criminologists and sociologists are sounding the alarm on incels and other growing internet subcultures that promote extreme violence. They say the threat posed by these groups isn't being taken seriously enough.

    "These people are extraordinarily dangerous," Mike Arntfield, a criminologist at Western University in London, Ont., told The Fifth Estate. "As soon as you have a suicidal, disoriented male, all bets are off in terms of what they're capable of doing.... Many are suicidal and some are homicidal.

    "This [group] has an organization to it."
    he Fifth Estate spent months infiltrating incel forums to get a sense of what goes on in these dark corners of the internet. Self-proclaimed incels often blame society and their genetics for not being successful in romantic endeavours. Using the term "involuntary," experts say, indicates that incels have little self-awareness.

    Incels believe women owe them sex, and in some cases people active on incel forums advocate for government-sanctioned girlfriends and sexual encounters.

    "[Incel] became a religion of sorts, and it's a recent ideology," Arntfield of Western University, said. "These are people who've found each other online and can ruminate over what they can do."

    The ideology of incels focuses on the idea that attractive women, known as "Stacys" in incel terminology, are shallow and only attracted to "Chads" — men who are hyper-muscular and highly attractive."
     
    ConundrumPonderer likes this.

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