Found Safe Canada - O’Driscoll-Zak sisters, 2 & 5, abduction by aunt & grandmother, Cochrane, 12 Mar 2021

[Cordelia Gray]

The security guard/PI initials are MMacN. Anyone able to use their web sleuth skills to figure out who that might be?

 

[otto]

The security guard/PI initials are MMacN. Anyone able to use their web sleuth skills to figure out who that might be?

Entirely a wild guess, but those initials might be Mike MacNeil.

 

[Sillybilly]

Yes I agree but nowhere have I’ve noticed it being reported that abduction charges have been filed and a warrant has been issued for the arrest of the grandmother and aunt. The wording by the RCMP regarding a “possible abduction” is highly unusual - generally it either is or isn’t.

I wonder why no warrant has been issued for these two by now. The grandmother and aunt don't have legal custody.

From Criminal Code of Canada

Abduction of person under age of 14

281 Every person who, not being the parent, guardian or person having the lawful care or charge of a person under the age of 14 years, unlawfully takes, entices away, conceals, detains, receives or harbours that person with intent to deprive a parent or guardian, or any other person who has the lawful care or charge of that person, of the possession of that person is guilty of

• (a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than 10 years; or
• (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.

• R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 281
• 2019, c. 25, s. 107

-also of interest-

Defence

284 No one shall be found guilty of an offence under sections 281 to 283 if he establishes that the taking, enticing away, concealing, detaining, receiving or harbouring of any young person was done with the consent of the parent, guardian or other person having the lawful possession, care or charge of that young person.

• 1980-81-82-83, c. 125, s. 20

Defence

285 No one shall be found guilty of an offence under sections 280 to 283 if the court is satisfied that the taking, enticing away, concealing, detaining, receiving or harbouring of any young person was necessary to protect the young person from danger of imminent harm or if the person charged with the offence was escaping from danger of imminent harm.

• R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 285
• 1993, c. 45, s. 6

 

[otto]

I wonder why no warrant has been issued for these two by now. The grandmother and aunt don't have legal custody.

From Criminal Code of Canada

Just an opinion, but perhaps the RCMP want to hear the abductors' side of the story. If the abductors were led to believe, and did believe, correctly or not, that they were rescuing the children from danger (i.e.: their father), then perhaps they have not committed an indictable offence.

If the grandmother and/or aunt conspired to aggravate the matrimonial conflict during the past 18 months with the intent to disparage the father's reputation such that his custodial rights were compromised, then I don't think "rescue" can be argued. That is, they were rescuing the children from a situation that they, in part, manufactured.

If they want to get away with the rescue argument, they better have very clean hands, and it goes with the territory that they did not at any time make any negative remarks against the father. Again, just an opinion.

 

[Seattle1]

Alberta RCMP still searching for missing Cochrane girls

Alberta RCMP continues searching for two Cochrane girls who have been missing for more than three weeks.

Leonine O’Driscoll-Zak, five, and Wyatt O’Driscoll-Zak, two, are believed to be with their aunt Alison O’Driscoll, 38, and grandmother Therese O’Driscoll, 68.

RCMP are investigating this disappearance as an abduction, involving the aunt and grandmother.

Alberta RCMP still searching for missing Cochrane girls - Red Deer Advocate

 

[MistyWaters]

Just an opinion, but perhaps the RCMP want to hear the abductors' side of the story. If the abductors were led to believe, and did believe, correctly or not, that they were rescuing the children from danger (i.e.: their father), then perhaps they have not committed an indictable offence.

If the grandmother and/or aunt conspired to aggravate the matrimonial conflict during the past 18 months with the intent to disparage the father's reputation such that his custodial rights were compromised, then I don't think "rescue" can be argued. That is, they were rescuing the children from a situation that they, in part, manufactured.

If they want to get away with the rescue argument, they better have very clean hands, and it goes with the territory that they did not at any time make any negative remarks against the father. Again, just an opinion.

This is from the latest RCMP press release dated April 1st. No longer is there a reference to “possible abduction”. I wonder if abduction charges have now been filed. If there’s any chance whatsoever the four are in another province the RCMP would be required to do so in order to provide grounds to another jurisdiction for an arrest warrant IMO.

Cochrane RCMP request assistance to locate two children and two adults – Update 3 – Still investigating | Royal Canadian Mounted Police
“The RCMP want to send a clear message to those that are assisting, that even if they believe they are acting in their best interests of the children, any assistance provided that contributes to the abduction is a criminal offence, and the RCMP will investigate those involved, and charges may be laid. Any assistance being provided is only exasperating the situation.”

 

[Tealgrove]

This is a complicated miserable mess.

Those girls need to be found. I just don’t see any urgency to find them and I don’t understand why.

 

[MistyWaters]

This is a complicated miserable mess.

Those girls need to be found. I just don’t see any urgency to find them and I don’t understand why.

It sure is a complicated miserable mess.

As the two children were abducted as opposed to being voluntarily handed over at the onset and the two women have not voluntarily came toward in the past month, if/when their location is known I wonder if LE is concerned about the potential of a dangerous and violent confrontation if police were to initiate force to seize the children and undertake an arrest.

ETA -
Sounds a little crazy but I do sometimes wonder if these two or maybe even the entire family have wrapped themselves up into believing there’s an organized conspiracy out to get them - the ex, the courts, the judge, child custody professionals, the government, the police. Statistics do indicate the impact of covid restrictions has resulted in increased mental health issues.

 

[Ontario Mom]

ETA -
Sounds a little crazy but I do sometimes wonder if these two or maybe even the entire family have wrapped themselves up into believing there’s an organized conspiracy out to get them - the ex, the courts, the judge, child custody professionals, the government, the police. Statistics do indicate the impact of covid restrictions has resulted in increased mental health issues.

It really doesn't sound so crazy since, they did actually kidnap the children and have someone giving them assistance, in staying hidden with the children, in direct violation of a court order.

So there's certainly some level of crazy going on, and some level of crazy-enabling, for sure. By who and how many, is anyone's guess.

 

[Satchie]

It sure is a complicated miserable mess.

As the two children were abducted as opposed to being voluntarily handed over at the onset and the two women have not voluntarily came toward in the past month, if/when their location is known I wonder if LE is concerned about the potential of a dangerous and violent confrontation if police were to initiate force to seize the children and undertake an arrest.

ETA -
Sounds a little crazy but I do sometimes wonder if these two or maybe even the entire family have wrapped themselves up into believing there’s an organized conspiracy out to get them - the ex, the courts, the judge, child custody professionals, the government, the police. Statistics do indicate the impact of covid restrictions has resulted in increased mental health issues.

I agree, it seems RCMP don't want to escalate the situation and potentially trigger even more desperate behaviour than has already occurred. IMO, the potential is there, and, at the least, would definitely mean more trauma for the children. Wait it out until, hopefully, the family come to their senses and initiate a surrender...

 

[otto]

I agree, it seems RCMP don't want to escalate the situation and potentially trigger even more desperate behaviour than has already occurred. IMO, the potential is there, and, at the least, would definitely mean more trauma for the children. Wait it out until, hopefully, the family come to their senses and initiate a surrender...

Waiting it out is okay short term, but every day that passes is another day that the father's rights are violated. Without doubt the wellbeing of the children is a priority, but it's well known that depriving children of one parent - in this case the custodial parent - is not in the best interests of the children.

 

[Ontario Mom]

My concern is, if they already opted for ripping these girls out of their own lives by kidnapping them, and taking them away from their dad and extended family on that side, (which is their right to have protected, not stolen), effectively then... exposing them, names, faces, etc., to the eyes of the world (yay, way to protect their privacy), if they thought all that was a good idea, what additional lengths will they go to, to "protect" the kids, or defend their choices? I don't even like to think about it, but we all know what some people can do to innocent children. Even their very own family members. We see it here every single day.

I mean, I cannot imagine if someone like that was in control of my children.
Their dad must be just sick with worry.

jmo

 

[otto]

My concern is, if they already opted for ripping these girls out of their own lives by kidnapping them, and taking them away from their dad and extended family on that side, (which is their right to have protected, not stolen), effectively then... exposing them, names, faces, etc., to the eyes of the world (yay, way to protect their privacy), if they thought all that was a good idea, what additional lengths will they go to, to "protect" the kids, or defend their choices? I don't even like to think about it, but we all know what some people can do to innocent children. Even their very own family members. We see it here every single day.

I mean, I cannot imagine if someone like that was in control of my children.
Their dad must be just sick with worry.

jmo

I think it a shame that information was leaked regarding devastating allegations against the father. The father has since come forward with a recorded statement confirming that there were false allegations, he has been cleared.

The children's privacy was violated the moment those false allegations were leaked. They hopefully have long lives ahead of their 2 and 5 years of age. Imagine having that personal history and a lifetime of people wondering whether it happened. Tragic that the information was released, and that the father was compelled to address the false allegations.

Each day that passes, there is less doubt regarding the March 12, 2021 custody decision.

 

[CanadianSleuther]

Something just doesn't sit right with me. I wonder if the girls mother told her family that the father was abusing them and her, and the grandmotehr and aunt genuinely were concerned for their safety. Because I can't think of a logical explanation on why they'd take the girls and leave. It wasn't the mother who took the girls on the run, but the maternal grandmother and aunt. I just can't see why everyone would risk jail time, and never seeing the two girls again unless they really felt their life is in danger.

But I also thought, what if the grandmother and aunt felt that neither mom or dad were fit, and that is why they took the child. Has it been determined if Mom lived with Grandma and Aunt?

 

[MistyWaters]

Something just doesn't sit right with me. I wonder if the girls mother told her family that the father was abusing them and her, and the grandmotehr and aunt genuinely were concerned for their safety. Because I can't think of a logical explanation on why they'd take the girls and leave. It wasn't the mother who took the girls on the run, but the maternal grandmother and aunt. I just can't see why everyone would risk jail time, and never seeing the two girls again unless they really felt their life is in danger.

But I also thought, what if the grandmother and aunt felt that neither mom or dad were fit, and that is why they took the child. Has it been determined if Mom lived with Grandma and Aunt?

From various media reports it appears JOZ and her two children lived with her parents. I don’t recall the aunt’s residence ever mentioned. The separation occurred 18 months ago according to CZ’s interview via podcast. The canlii court custody records do not indicate either the grandmother or aunt had ever directly intervened in the bitter custody dispute between the children’s parents.

“When Zak went to retrieve Leo and Wyatt at their grandmother’s house, located outside of Cochrane, they were gone.”
Search continues Tuesday for 2 girls missing from Cochrane, Alta.

“They were last seen at around 9:30 am Friday, March 12th at the children's rural home near Cochrane. The two children were supposed to be picked up that day by their father, Colin Zak, who was awarded full custody of his daughters. Zak said when he went to get the kids from the home they weren't there. “
The search continues for two young girls last seen in Cochrane area - DiscoverAirdrie.com

 

[Cordelia Gray]

I believe the girls were living with their mother at some point and I think the mother is now living at her parents place possibly due to safety concerns. The father had supervised visits for awhile and the people that were supervising the visits were the mother's sisters and mother. Have the family involved in the supervised visits may have helped muddy the waters.

 

[Inthedetails]

Something just doesn't sit right with me. I wonder if the girls mother told her family that the father was abusing them and her, and the grandmotehr and aunt genuinely were concerned for their safety. Because I can't think of a logical explanation on why they'd take the girls and leave. It wasn't the mother who took the girls on the run, but the maternal grandmother and aunt. I just can't see why everyone would risk jail time, and never seeing the two girls again unless they really felt their life is in danger.

But I also thought, what if the grandmother and aunt felt that neither mom or dad were fit, and that is why they took the child. Has it been determined if Mom lived with Grandma and Aunt?

I see vindictiveness at play here, and that is a strong motivator - and sometimes the truth doesn't have a chance when someone is determined to defeat their enemy.

My opinion.

jmo

 

[Cordelia Gray]

The other thing I don't get is that the mother's lawyer has said she is as concerned as the father is that the girls are missing. Caroline O'Driscoll (mother's sister) is very focused on the sexual assault charges but there is no mention as to a search for missing family members. If I had not heard from my older mother, sister, and nieces that is where my focus would be.

 

[LovesPeace2]

This is one complicated mess I don't think they left Canada the land crossings to the states were closed and if they flew there's so many records kept because of covid they'd know by now,there's so many lakes and cottages all over with help they could be gone a while with no one noticing who they are there's so many people booking cottages and camp sites with covid jmoo

 

[Satchie]

Something just doesn't sit right with me. I wonder if the girls mother told her family that the father was abusing them and her, and the grandmotehr and aunt genuinely were concerned for their safety. Because I can't think of a logical explanation on why they'd take the girls and leave. It wasn't the mother who took the girls on the run, but the maternal grandmother and aunt. I just can't see why everyone would risk jail time, and never seeing the two girls again unless they really felt their life is in danger.

But I also thought, what if the grandmother and aunt felt that neither mom or dad were fit, and that is why they took the child. Has it been determined if Mom lived with Grandma and Aunt?

I have followed a few cases now where drastic measures were taken to obtain sole custody of a child: a slaughter of 8 people in Ohio, a hit man hired, a mother murdered in an apparent stranger killing in Illinois ... in all cases the grandmother was a driving force.

I think it all depends on the personality of the grandmother. The fact that she could get her other daughter to run away with her, speaks to me of a woman who has a lot of power over her children. Most mothers wouldn't ask that of an unmarried daughter. Most aunts asked by their desperate mother would say 'no way, I have a life thank you'.