CANADA Canada - Sonia Varaschin, 42, Orangeville, 29 Aug 2010 - #3

Gina20

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According to my calculations, Sonia was found in a location about equidistant from the Orangeville Police Service and the OPP Caledon detachment. That could have been carefully calculated or random.
 

Gina20

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We assume (with good reason, imo) that a male attacked SV, but what if it was actually a large, strong and ''sporty'' woman?
speculation, imo.

At some point, police said that it was a man. Was it proven by DNA, though? They've also mentioned more than one person. Again, was there DNA to prove this, or was it calculated to generate tips?
 
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Is it possible that the person injured Sonia and took her out of the home to seek help, but she died along the way and so they dumped her body? Did they injure her so that they could kidnap her but she died enroute to where she was being taken, so they abandoned her body? If I recall correctly, she was found not far from the road. A person who planned this would have had a better spot to hide her, or would have placed her further into the bush/tree area and not so close to the road.
 
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I’m trying to think like a killer. Fortunately don’t have any experience in this field. If for some reason I wanted or needed to kill someone, I think I would go to their home, kill them and leave, hoping that no one saw me arrive or depart. Why would I want to attract attention to myself and also take the body with me? The only thing I can think of is to prevent her family from finding the deceased person in that state, to prevent them that pain and suffering. Is it possible that someone who knew Sonia and her family, killed her intentionally or accidentally, but then felt the need to move her to spare her parents the shock of finding her?
 

2soccermom

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I’m trying to think like a killer. Fortunately don’t have any experience in this field. If for some reason I wanted or needed to kill someone, I think I would go to their home, kill them and leave, hoping that no one saw me arrive or depart. Why would I want to attract attention to myself and also take the body with me? The only thing I can think of is to prevent her family from finding the deceased person in that state, to prevent them that pain and suffering. Is it possible that someone who knew Sonia and her family, killed her intentionally or accidentally, but then felt the need to move her to spare her parents the shock of finding her?

lol, Coralina -- I'm thankful you don't have experience in that field :)
What you suggest above makes as good sense as any theory here. While for example I mostly think of the stolen bed covers in terms of the killer's (or killers') need to transport Sonia, it would be equally fair to propose that this cover might have been for an act of care in covering/protecting her (deranged as "care" in this context might be). Removing her to spare the family finding her as you suggest would reasonably map onto this theory. I find your postulation that Sonia may have been murdered as an act of passion followed by deep regret somewhat comforting -- mostly because then it's possible to hope that a person burdened by the horror of their actions might one day come forward to make good, to "come clean" as the expression goes.
If that person is reading here, they should think about the relief that confession could bring. How can prolonging what we all hope is the inevitable really give any truly human individual any peace???
 

Gina20

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I’m trying to think like a killer. Fortunately don’t have any experience in this field. If for some reason I wanted or needed to kill someone, I think I would go to their home, kill them and leave, hoping that no one saw me arrive or depart. Why would I want to attract attention to myself and also take the body with me? The only thing I can think of is to prevent her family from finding the deceased person in that state, to prevent them that pain and suffering. Is it possible that someone who knew Sonia and her family, killed her intentionally or accidentally, but then felt the need to move her to spare her parents the shock of finding her?

Moving Sonia's body might not have been done to spare her family, but because someone known to Sonia wanted to put distance between themself and the murder. Why would a stranger move her?

By the same token, they left enough of a trail so that Sonia was found. The ultimate act of disrespect and domination, followed by a small act of contrition?
 
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I’m trying to think like a killer. Fortunately don’t have any experience in this field. If for some reason I wanted or needed to kill someone, I think I would go to their home, kill them and leave, hoping that no one saw me arrive or depart. Why would I want to attract attention to myself and also take the body with me? The only thing I can think of is to prevent her family from finding the deceased person in that state, to prevent them that pain and suffering. Is it possible that someone who knew Sonia and her family, killed her intentionally or accidentally, but then felt the need to move her to spare her parents the shock of finding her?
No, he did it to put a distance between him and Sonia's home, I think. He had possibly some connection to Sonia and her home and would be one of the persons, if not THE ONE, that would have been suspected because of that. IMO
 

whiterhino

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At some point, police said that it was a man. Was it proven by DNA, though? They've also mentioned more than one person. Again, was there DNA to prove this, or was it calculated to generate tips?

We can stop questioning whether DNA exists or not: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/police-seek-dna-samples-in-varaschin-case-1.994483

"The Orangeville Police Service and the Ontario Provincial Police said that "DNA was recovered" during the course of the eight-month investigation."

LE collected voluntary samples of DNA so I doubt it was a bluff. But I have often wondered in the past 10 years, what happened with the DNA? Especially with the link you posted regarding technology to help differentiate between one contributor and another. That piece of information is interesting. Does this mean the DNA they have is mixed with SV? Or mixed with another perpetrator??

Also, as you said @Gina20 I too was under the impression that this technology was part of some kind of standard forensic procedure. Could it be that since it has been mixed with another profile, it would be too degraded/contaminated for other tests or use in other labs? That would be so disappointing.

Police collecting DNA in Varaschin murder probe

"He said Wednesday it could take up to three weeks to collect the samples, but can't say now long it will take to get the results. Leon says he would expect anyone with nothing to hide to provide a sample."

No, he did it to put a distance between him and Sonia's home, I think. He had possibly some connection to Sonia and her home and would be one of the persons, if not THE ONE, that would have been suspected because of that. IMO

Ita. Much more plausible. I don't believe there was any attempt made to conceal the body due to the murderer feeling remorse or guilt. IMHO Sonia was hidden for the purpose of buying time and creating distance.
 

Gina20

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We can stop questioning whether DNA exists or not: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/police-seek-dna-samples-in-varaschin-case-1.994483

"The Orangeville Police Service and the Ontario Provincial Police said that "DNA was recovered" during the course of the eight-month investigation."

LE collected voluntary samples of DNA so I doubt it was a bluff. But I have often wondered in the past 10 years, what happened with the DNA? Especially with the link you posted regarding technology to help differentiate between one contributor and another. That piece of information is interesting. Does this mean the DNA they have is mixed with SV? Or mixed with another perpetrator??

Also, as you said @Gina20 I too was under the impression that this technology was part of some kind of standard forensic procedure. Could it be that since it has been mixed with another profile, it would be too degraded/contaminated for other tests or use in other labs? That would be so disappointing.

Police collecting DNA in Varaschin murder probe

"He said Wednesday it could take up to three weeks to collect the samples, but can't say now long it will take to get the results. Leon says he would expect anyone with nothing to hide to provide a sample."



Ita. Much more plausible. I don't believe there was any attempt made to conceal the body due to the murderer feeling remorse or guilt. IMHO Sonia was hidden for the purpose of buying time and creating distance.

Remember when Russell Williams left DNA at many break-ins? His DNA was "partial" and "incomplete". It wasn't useful, until finally he got careless. I never understood how he could leave DNA seemingly everywhere he went, but none of it was useful.

I don't doubt that there would have been DNA in Sonia's townhome. DNA is everywhere people go. Police could have found DNA from people who were known to Sonia, or DNA could have been left by first responders. Sonia was missing when they entered her home, so they might have been in a hurry to get her medical attention. Understandable. No one knew for sure that she had been murdered at that point.

So I don't doubt that DNA from multiple sources was found at the three crime scenes. In order to be useful, it would have to come from someone not known to Sonia, or someone who wasn't supposed to be there. Even something as simple as taking her car in for an oil change at the dealership would leave DNA from the service representative, the car jockey, the technician and another car jockey. Over time, that DNA would degrade.

I will continue to ask questions until information is provided. I guess 10+ years of following Sonia's story proves that I don't give up. No use asking me to stop. I'm stubborn and persistent. Team Sonia 100%!
 

whiterhino

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Remember when Russell Williams left DNA at many break-ins? His DNA was "partial" and "incomplete". It wasn't useful, until finally he got careless. I never understood how he could leave DNA seemingly everywhere he went, but none of it was useful.

The scene(s) of SV is so messy I am praying for carelessness.

Partial means there is an amount of degradation or contamination. I have faith : )

I don't doubt that there would have been DNA in Sonia's townhome. DNA is everywhere people go. Police could have found DNA from people who were known to Sonia, or DNA could have been left by first responders. Sonia was missing when they entered her home, so they might have been in a hurry to get her medical attention. Understandable. No one knew for sure that she had been murdered at that point.

So I don't doubt that DNA from multiple sources was found at the three crime scenes. In order to be useful, it would have to come from someone not known to Sonia, or someone who wasn't supposed to be there. Even something as simple as taking her car in for an oil change at the dealership would leave DNA from the service representative, the car jockey, the technician and another car jockey. Over time, that DNA would degrade.

I will continue to ask questions until information is provided. I guess 10+ years of following Sonia's story proves that I don't give up. No use asking me to stop. I'm stubborn and persistent. Team Sonia 100%!

This is pure speculation. We do not know what LE have. We do NOT know that they have 3 samples from 3 scenes. Please mark your posts as "speculation" in the future. Respectfully.

If we want to be useful (why else are we here?) perhaps some practical questions... Let's say that OPS have a DNA sample that has become contaminated. Let's say there are several contributors and the origin/location of the sample cannot be disclosed for the purpose of discretion... Lets say the bf and SV met up at some point within the 24 hours prior. Let's say there is an intruder, a second "profile" if you will...

We do not know what kind of DNA. Yes, it is everywhere. If you want to get technical yes, contact DNA an transfer DNA are a thing. Meanwhile... we can reason and use logic to explain why certain types of DNA are present in certain locations. Some things are difficult to explain away.

I have confidence that OPS LE have something. No matter the value, I believe that with a bit of time, technology and faith there will be an answer.
 

Oakland CA

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.......I will continue to ask questions until information is provided. I guess 10+ years of following Sonia's story proves that I don't give up. No use asking me to stop. I'm stubborn and persistent. Team Sonia 100%!

Thank You.

Please don't stop as you single-handedly resurrected this thread with your well thought out questions, comments and answers.
 

Gina20

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This is pure speculation. We do not know what LE have. We do NOT know that they have 3 samples from 3 scenes. Please mark your posts as "speculation" in the future. Respectfully.

If we want to be useful (why else are we here?) perhaps some practical questions... Let's say that OPS have a DNA sample that has become contaminated. Let's say there are several contributors and the origin/location of the sample cannot be disclosed for the purpose of discretion... Lets say the bf and SV met up at some point within the 24 hours prior. Let's say there is an intruder, a second "profile" if you will...

We do not know what kind of DNA. Yes, it is everywhere. If you want to get technical yes, contact DNA an transfer DNA are a thing. Meanwhile... we can reason and use logic to explain why certain types of DNA are present in certain locations. Some things are difficult to explain away.

I have confidence that OPS LE have something. No matter the value, I believe that with a bit of time, technology and faith there will be an answer.

Respectfully, Sonia's DNA would have been found at all three crime scenes. That is a fact. So yes, police found DNA at all three crime scenes, because Sonia was at all three crime scenes.

Feel free to ignore my posts.
 

dotr

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CHCH.com
Sonia Varaschin murder still unsolved - CHCH
''Something that may help to jog a memory or 2, at the time of Sonia’s murder her family reported that she had recently left her job in Shelbourne to work in Mississauga because of workplace conflict. They also told police that, as a shift-worker, she’d had an ongoing dispute with 3 young men living in a neighbouring townhouse over noise.''
Police have not confirmed either claim.''

Ontario police release video to help find potential witnesses in 2010 murder of nurse | National Post
''A reward of $50,000 was previously announced for information leading to the arrest and conviction of the person or persons responsible for Varaschin’s murder.

The case drew national attention as investigators revealed the culprit likely left Varaschin’s home covered in a significant amount of blood and used her car to move her body to the wooded area where it was found.

“Our investigators are as committed to finding Sonia Varaschin’s killer today as we were when it began in 2010,” said OPP
Det. Insp. Shawn Glassford.

“We are determined to bring justice to Sonia and her family,” he said.

“No tip is too small or insignificant in fact it could be the missing piece of the puzzle that we need to solve this case.”
 

Gina20

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Sonia's mom spoke of her family's first Christmas without her, and how there would be an empty place at the dinner table.

Here we are, on the 11th Christmas since Sonia's life was taken. There is never closure when a loved one is murdered. Sonia's family doesn't even have resolution.

In honor of Sonia, I'm setting an empty place at the Christmas dinner table this year. I'm borrowing some ideas from the "missing man table".
 

Gina20

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Remembering the unsolved 1980 murder of Etobicoke teenager Veronica Kaye. She was dumped north of Bolton, in a wooded area near Humber Station Road and Castlederg Sideroad. I noted that this is by the Bolton Resource Management Tract, which includes a popular hiking trail. People out walking the trail found Veronica's remains. Making a mental note, because Sonia was found near the Caledon Tract. Even though it is unlikely that these two cases are related, I thought this is worth mentioning.
 

dotr

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Remembering the unsolved 1980 murder of Etobicoke teenager Veronica Kaye. She was dumped north of Bolton, in a wooded area near Humber Station Road and Castlederg Sideroad. I noted that this is by the Bolton Resource Management Tract, which includes a popular hiking trail. People out walking the trail found Veronica's remains. Making a mental note, because Sonia was found near the Caledon Tract. Even though it is unlikely that these two cases are related, I thought this is worth mentioning.
CANADA - Veronica Lynn Kaye, 18, Toronto, 7 Nov 1980 *unique button found*
 
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This morning there is an article in the Toronto Sun called “Cops turned up heat on cold cases in 2020”. Michael Arntfield who is a criminology professor at Western University and a cold case expert is quoted as saying “Any case that has DNA is now, in theory, 100% solvable.” There is no reason why Sonia’s killer can’t be found this year. They have the killer’s DNA. They have the technology. Let’s hope they are busy arresting her killer as we read here.
 
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This morning there is an article in the Toronto Sun called “Cops turned up heat on cold cases in 2020”. Michael Arntfield who is a criminology professor at Western University and a cold case expert is quoted as saying “Any case that has DNA is now, in theory, 100% solvable.” There is no reason why Sonia’s killer can’t be found this year. They have the killer’s DNA. They have the technology. Let’s hope they are busy arresting her killer as we read here.
Hopefully the killer is in the police system already .....
 

Gina20

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A twisted case | Maclean's | JULY 27, 1992

The greenhouse mentioned in this story, across the street from David Snow's house, is a two-minute drive from Sonia's townhouse in Orangeville. One of Snow's victims was a public health nurse. One victim's vehicle was found on a side road south of Caledon, near a golf club. Another vehicle belonging to two victims was also found in the same area.

David Snow was jailed a long time ago, and discussed previously in this thread.

Has a map ever been made of all known murder victims dumped in the area, and locations of their vehicles? Who would know? Michael Arntfield?

I think it quite possible that Highway 10 was the route used by Snow out of Orangeville.

Note: Snow had worked as a roofer, at the Orangeville train station. Sonia, interestingly enough, had had some outdoor ornaments damaged by roofers prior to her murder, IIRC.

Caroline Case's remains were later discovered about 500 metres away from her blood-covered car.

Caroline Case Snow Charged - Newspapers.com
 
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