GUILTY Canada - Taliyah Marsman, 5, & Sara Baillie, 34, Calgary, 11 July 2016 #2

MistyWaters

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I don't recall reading that the child watched her mother die. The articles posted this morning state that duct tape was wrapped around the mother's head and that she was in a laundry hamper in the child's closet, but that doesn't mean that the child witnessed this.

The prosecution is alleging that’s the reason, link just above. Downey would be put in a difficult position if he chooses to deny it.

“The prosecutor said Taliyah was also asphyxiated to prevent her from identifying her mother’s murderer.

“Taliyah’s killer took her and killed her because she was a witness to the murder of her mother,” MacPhail said.”
 

otto

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Thanks. So the prosecution is "alleging" that the child witnessed the mother's murder to explain a motive, and at the same time tug at the heart strings of jurors.

Even if the child did not witness the murder, she could have identified the man who was with her mother that day and that too would be a reason to eliminate her as a witness. Just my opinion, but I think it's a bit overboard for the prosecutor to suggest something that is more gruesome without evidence.
 

Melzack

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I don't recall reading that the child watched her mother die. The articles posted this morning state that duct tape was wrapped around the mother's head and that she was in a laundry hamper in the child's closet, but that doesn't mean that the child witnessed this.
Isn't that why they're saying that he killed her because she would be able to identify him since she was 6 years old?
 

dotr

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Calgary girl killed after witnessing mom’s murder, Crown alleges
"Little Taliyah Marsman was murdered because she witnessed her mother’s slaying and the killer wanted to silence her, a prosecutor said Monday."

"Court reporter Kevin Martin is covering the trial live. Warning: Some details may be graphic and disturbing. "

"As for the motive for killing Baillie, MacPhail suggested it might have been related to the dead woman’s friendship with Downey’s then-girlfriend, a woman who can only be identified by the initials A.B.

MacPhail suggested Downey may have been angry at Baillie for influencing A.B.’s decision to break up with him and her refusal to work for him as an escort."
 

otto

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Isn't that why they're saying that he killed her because she would be able to identify him since she was 6 years old?

It's one thing to say that she witnessed her mother's murder, which we now know was gruesome, and something entirely different to say that she could have identified the suspect and place him at her home on the day of the murder.

The headlines are claiming that the child witnessed the murder, but there cannot be evidence of that.
 

MistyWaters

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“As for the motive for killing Baillie, MacPhail suggested it might have been related to the dead woman’s friendship with Downey’s then-girlfriend, a woman who can only be identified by the initials A.B.

MacPhail suggested Downey may have been angry at Baillie for influencing A.B.’s decision to break up with him and her refusal to work for him as an escort.”
Edward Downey trial live: Crown says mother and daughter both strangled
 

MistyWaters

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It's one thing to say that she witnessed her mother's murder, which we now know was gruesome, and something entirely different to say that she could have identified the suspect and place him at her home on the day of the murder.

The headlines are claiming that the child witnessed the murder, but there cannot be evidence of that.

The prosecution’s theory might be based on the fact Sara’s body was found in her child’s closet. Regardless, motive isn’t required to be proven. Downey’s fingerprints on the duct tape will nail him imo.

“The prosecutor told jurors Baillie’s body was found stuffed in laundry bag in her daughter’s bedroom closet in the northwest basement suite they shared, duct tape wrapped around her face, neck and wrists.“
Edward Downey trial live: Crown says mother and daughter both strangled
 

MistyWaters

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Some greater detail on what jurors have heard of possible motive for Downey’s murder of Sara during opening statements:

“The Crown's theory is that Baillie may have been killed because she was trying to rescue her best friend — a woman who can only be identified as AB — from life as an escort and from her abusive relationship with Downey.

Baillie had witnessed Downey punching AB in the face a month before her death. Downey had texted friends about his displeasure with Baillie.

On July 10, 2016, the day before Baillie's body was discovered, AB texted Downey, telling him: "It's time to pack your bags, I'm ending this relationship."

"This was the breaking point," MacPhail told the jury. "You will be asked to consider what impact this had on Mr. Downey."

Downey had also "taken steps toward [AB] working as escort but she decided she did not want to do it."

In a text message to a friend, Downey wrote: "I'm down to one and she's square … I had her hanging with that white one."

MacPhail suggested Downey blamed Baillie for his breakup and because AB had decided she did not want to work as a prostitute for him....”
Girl, 5, likely killed because she witnessed mother's murder, Crown tells jurors | CBC News
 

MistyWaters

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Double murder trial underway for Edward Downey, accused of killing Calgary mother & 5-year-old daughter
“MacPhail began by detailing Taliyah’s last interactions with her father, Colin Marsman.

Taliyah FaceTimed him July 10, 2016. Taliyah wanted to tell him she was losing a tooth.

Taliyah had also FaceTimed her great aunt and uncle, Marilynne and Scott Hamilton, to share the same news. She spent a lot of time with the Hamiltons.

Court heard it was the following day, July 11, 2016, that the mother and daughter disappeared.....

....Family of Sara and Taliyah filled the courtroom Monday, many were crying as they heard details of the case...”
 

otto

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The picture of Edward Downey becomes clearer. He's an unemployed, uneducated, useless, transient man who is unable and unwilling to provide for himself. He manipulates single mothers with vulnerable children to obtain access to their bank accounts and to provide for him. If they don't earn enough legally, he coerces them into prostitution using the euphemism "escort."

If he doesn't get his way, he has a tantrum and punches women in the face. He is so afraid of friendship between women that he murdered his girlfriend's best friend and her child. He didn't want anyone to know that he could so afraid of a 5 year old girl that he would murder her, so he tried to hide her body.

Thankfully he left a digital trail.
 

otto

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Her hands were duct taped, and her head and neck were duct taped. That would have taken some time. She was beaten first - punched in the head. I wonder if her daughter died the same way- duct tape.

He is 48 years old. I wonder if he has left other women in areas a few miles outside of the city. Maybe they were left farther away at first. There was another woman who was found North of Airdrie, or was discussed in relation to the Liknes murders. Her cell phone had been used after she died. Does anyone remember her - she was trying to get clean. Where was Edward Downey at that time?
 

subwaydreaming

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Do we know if Taliyah’s father or Sara’s parents are in attendance? This must be unbearable for them.
 

MistyWaters

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Do we know if Taliyah’s father or Sara’s parents are in attendance? This must be unbearable for them.

I agree, just reading about this case is hard, so I can’t begin to imagine how difficult it must be for friends and relatives of the victims. I don’t recall the media specifically mentioning which relatives are attending the trial, only their presence in general.

Taliyah’s father was mentioned in the opening statement, which usually means he will be called to testify for the prosecution and isn’t allowed to sit in court to observe other witness testimony prior to that.
 

MistyWaters

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I wonder if Sara’s ex-boyfriend is friends with Downey? Seems odd that both men suggested their respective girlfriends become escorts.

I also noticed the trial is taking on a different path than earlier stories printed in the media. I don’t know why except as sometimes happens, media sources are not under oath and sometimes are built on a pile of speculation. I don’t recall an ex boyfriend of Sara’s being mentioned during this trial, not yet at this point anyway.

Robyn Urback: Sara Baillie’s ‘second job’ as an escort makes her and Taliyah’s story more tragic, not less
 

deugirtni

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I also noticed the trial is taking on a different path than earlier stories printed in the media. I don’t know why except as sometimes happens, media sources are not under oath and sometimes are built on a pile of speculation. I don’t recall an ex boyfriend of Sara’s being mentioned during this trial, not yet at this point anyway.

Robyn Urback: Sara Baillie’s ‘second job’ as an escort makes her and Taliyah’s story more tragic, not less
AB mentioned him while she was on the stand.. said he wanted SB to 'escort', and she said no.. AB thought that might be why they split up. AB said that SB would 'never escort'.
 

deugirtni

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I agree, just reading about this case is hard, so I can’t begin to imagine how difficult it must be for friends and relatives of the victims. I don’t recall the media specifically mentioning which relatives are attending the trial, only their presence in general.

Taliyah’s father was mentioned in the opening statement, which usually means he will be called to testify for the prosecution and isn’t allowed to sit in court to observe other witness testimony prior to that.
Considering that he is the parent of one of the victim's, one would hope they would get his testimony over with early, so that he can be present for the rest of the trial?
 

MistyWaters

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AB mentioned him while she was on the stand.. said he wanted SB to 'escort', and she said no.. AB thought that might be why they split up. AB said that SB would 'never escort'.

Yes you’re right, the quote from the trial is below. That’s really disturbing, how those early media stories seem to have been totally inaccurate.

BBM

“Baillie and AB had been best friends for about two years, "we were together all the time," said the witness.

The two spent time at each other's home and with each other's family. AB said Downey had been to Baillie's home and Baillie had spent time at her home.

Downey was the brother of AB's father's girlfriend. He and AB met when she was 13 years old and he was 29.

Though they didn't become intimate for another 16 years, he told her when she was younger that they were "going to be together."

AB, who is now 32, lived with Downey in a townhouse in the northeast. AB's mother owned the house and AB paid the mortgage and other bills. Her eight-year-old son lived with them.

By July 2016, the relationship between Downey and AB had deteriorated — he had hit her in the face and she had refused to begin working for him as a prostitute, court heard.

"[We were] fighting a lot … we were on bad terms," said AB.

AB said Baillie "was afraid for me" after Downey punched her in the face on June 12, 2016, leaving her with a black eye.

Prosecutor Carla MacPhail asked if Baillie had ever expressed her views on escorting. AB said "she would never do it."...”
Edward Downey tried to pimp out victim's best friend, jurors hear at double murder trial | CBC News
 
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