Canada - Tim McLean, 22, decapitated on bus, Winnipeg, 30 July 2008 *Insanity*

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Thankfully the passengers quick thinking did stop him from harming anyone else... yes, they weren't able to stop him from attacking the young man he was killing, but the 3 of them did go back on the bus to try to stop the man, and when he lunged at them, they got off the bus and trapped the guy so he couldn't get out and do more harm to others or get away.

As horrific as it was, the passengers did think quickly on their feet...
 
OMG, this is one of the most horrible things I've ever heard of! How frightening to just be asleep and have some nut beside you just go off like that? I wonder what was in the cigarette that one of the passengers said that the guy smoked? PCP?
 
This is so sad and disturbing and I just can't stop thinking about it. I pray those passengers get good counseling because if I'm this disturbed after just reading it, I can't even imagine how they must be dealing with seeing it.
 
Most reports here have indicated that Tim was either asleep or with his ipod on resting when the attack happened. There is an eyewitness account of the guy in the first next seat who hear a commotion and small noise of pain and scuffle. He turned around expecting to see a fight and witnessed the attacker repeatedly stabbing the victim everywhere. From all I have heard and seen it would appear (and I pray to god) that Tim died very quickly.

This witness started yelling for everyone to get off the bus and the busdriver to pull over. I think frankly her probably saved a number of lives. He was one of the men who went back with the driver and truck driver to see if there was anything they could do. I think his instincts were right. There were children, and elderly and many unaware people on that bus it could have been a massacre. My guess is after everyone was off he started to doubt himself and whether the victim could be saved. I cannot imagine the bravery it took to go back with that maniac.

I know we all wish people could act with "superman" instincts and strengths in these sad situations but I think that the people on this bus will have enough guilt, nightmares and problems dealing with this for the rest of thier lives that people have to be very careful to not add to their stress by even minorily indicating they may have handled it wrong.

Just horrific and very very sad.
 
saqqara said:
Most reports here have indicated that Tim was either asleep or with his ipod on resting when the attack happened. There is an eyewitness account of the guy in the first next seat who hear a commotion and small noise of pain and scuffle. He turned around expecting to see a fight and witnessed the attacker repeatedly stabbing the victim everywhere. From all I have heard and seen it would appear (and I pray to god) that Tim died very quickly.

This witness started yelling for everyone to get off the bus and the busdriver to pull over. I think frankly her probably saved a number of lives. He was one of the men who went back with the driver and truck driver to see if there was anything they could do. I think his instincts were right. There were children, and elderly and many unaware people on that bus it could have been a massacre. My guess is after everyone was off he started to doubt himself and whether the victim could be saved. I cannot imagine the bravery it took to go back with that maniac.

I know we all wish people could act with "superman" instincts and strengths in these sad situations but I think that the people on this bus will have enough guilt, nightmares and problems dealing with this for the rest of thier lives that people have to be very careful to not add to their stress by even minorily indicating they may have handled it wrong.

Just horrific and very very sad.
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Well believe me, if Tim were my son I would be asking why someone didn't attempt to help.
 
I think everyone has to put themselves inside that bus at the time of this incident to understand how this appears to have gone down.

Long bus ride, everyone is relaxing, some asleep, dozing, whatever. I understand the young man that was attacked had ear phones on listening to music, asleep, or appeared to be, eyes closed.

This guy just suddenly lunged at this young man, repeatedly stabbing him. Imagine waking up to a crazed man repeatedly stabbing someone. The horror, I can't even imagine. The first thought would be to pull back out of harms way. Trying to get EVERYONE off that darn bus!

By the time anyone realized what was happening, I'm sure that young man was already dead. Once they had everyone off the bus, I understand some did return. Here comes this crazed guy, covered in blood with a knife in one hand and the young man's head in the other.

OMGosh! I am NOT going to fault ONE person there for NOT doing anything. NO WAY. Just the shock factor alone would make anyone almost pass out, faint, fall to the ground in horror, get literally sick to their stomach.

THAT's the scene during this ordeal. It probably happened all within just mere minutes. Tops, five.

No,..........they did the RIGHT thing, pulling the bus over and moving everyone away from this guy. Who knows, he may have been on drugs or whatever. He was definitely CRAZY!

I'm honestly praying for all those poor people on that bus. No way could they have prevented what happened. IMO, the victim was most likely gone before they even saw what was happening.

I'm not going to judge these people. They came out alive. Unfortunately, one didn't. Who knew? No one.

fran
 
I can imagine that the family might think that at first. But again if this went down as it all appears from the witness accounts (many of which have now been edited or removed because they were so disturbing) than I think the family. . and would eventually realize that there was nothing to be done for Tim and they would not wish more senseless loss.

Just my opinion, but it truly does seem like it was beyond anyone's scope of comprehension.
 
I was just looking at Tim's pictures. What a handsome young man. Anyone notice how....just...nice he looked? He just looked like he was 'nice people' you know? Poor darlin'.

The name of the killer was released
http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/08/01/canada.beheading/index.html

CNN) -- "A 40-year-old man was charged with second-degree murder Friday in connection with the stabbing and beheading death of his seatmate on a Greyhound Canada bus, authorities said.


Police investigate the scene near Portage la Prairie, Canada, on Thursday.

Vince Weiguang Li of Edmonton, Alberta, stood silent before a judge Friday in the Provincial Court of Manitoba in Portage la Prairie, the Associated Press reported.

A prosecutor sought a psychiatric evaluation of the defendant, but the judge said he'd wait until Li had obtained an attorney, AP reported. Li is due back in court Tuesday."
 
This is so horrific!!!! :( It's hard to even comprehend. I'm with you Fran....I think in a situation like that most would naturally run! I hope to never be in a situation like this and would never judge anyone in their shoes. They will forever be messed up from it.
 
lizzybeth said:
You're probably right capoly but I would think that in a case like this you go with your first instinct. Mine would be to try and help the person. I may end up getting killed myself but I hope I wouldn't just leave the bus and do nothing. No one ever knows what they would do unless they are in that situation. I'm not blaming the other passengers, just wishing that someone had been able to stop him.
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Please know that on an emotional level I understand your feelings re first instinct to be to help the person.

On a behavioral level, I am amazed how certain passengers, and the bus driver, responded like trained professionals. The bus driver disabling the bus, in and of itself, was an indication of how these people were determined to stop this man's rampage.

They may not have been able to save this young man but they surely did honor him by making sure the killer was kept in place in order to be arrested and held accountable.
 
Suspect in bus killing was a newspaper delivery man: report

The man accused of stabbing a young Winnipeg man aboard a Greyhound bus delivered newspapers for several Edmonton publications, according to a media report...

After delivering papers Monday morning, Li "fell off the face of the earth," according to his employer, Vincent Augert, who was quoted in the article.

Li's delivery supervisor described him as a "nice guy," Augert said. The Edmonton man also worked at a McDonald's restaurant, according to Augert.

RCMP announced Friday morning that they had charged Li with second-degree murder. Police said he has no previous criminal record...
 
I think the passengers did about all they could do considering the situation they were in .
 
This is truly macrabre...does this have a history of violence? Was he compelled to watch horror movie after horror movie?

What makes a "nice guy" change into this horrific creature? The poor victim, and witnesses on this bus. What a nightmare!
 
I agree with Capoly & Fran - Those guys got everyone out to safety first. Even a paramedic when s/he gets to an accident scene ensures their own safety before helping anyone. Good grief, these people were in major shock, some crying, some puking, absolutely terrorized. Kudos to the bus driver, Mr Katon and the truck driver for somehow keeping their wits to keep others from being mutilated.

I have 2 questions as a result of this.

1. Why did the RCMP negotiate with this maniac for several hours and only took him down when he broke a window and jumped out; and

2. Why has the Crown charged the maniac with second degree?? He took the large hunting knife on the bus; he changed seats after a short stop and sat beside the young man; he pulled out the knife and started stabbing.
 
From the article Jersey Girl posted it said his wife said that he had to leave on a family emergency but didn't know what that was. Now, get real. If there was a family emergency the family would know including his wife. I still say that family members were aware of his odd behavior but either didn't address it or were afraid to address it.

When it all comes out no matter how long it takes there will be some tell tale signs. Right now I imagine his family is horrified as they should be and not blaming them but there are other implications. Denial is a strong possibility which hurts so many when push comes to shove.
 
I seem to have a response to my question #2.

Grant said the Crown may have opted for second degree because they weren't convinced they could prove the intent and premeditation required for first degree, given the seemingly random nature of the attack.

I'm still :confused:. Intent? How many people carry a large hunting knife on their person. I think the knife would be in their luggage underneath the bus in the baggage compartment. (It's illegal to carry a concealed weapon by the way.) The guy changed seats. I think a jury could put 2+2 together. Premeditation? How about when he reached and got his knife out and then stabbed 40-50 times?

There's quite a bit more in this article:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=ba3498aa-995c-4f03-92f7-1a3cb0c79532
 
jilly said:
I seem to have a response to my question #2.

Grant said the Crown may have opted for second degree because they weren't convinced they could prove the intent and premeditation required for first degree, given the seemingly random nature of the attack.

I'm still :confused:. Intent? How many people carry a large hunting knife on their person. I think the knife would be in their luggage underneath the bus in the baggage compartment. (It's illegal to carry a concealed weapon by the way.) The guy changed seats. I think a jury could put 2+2 together. Premeditation? How about when he reached and got his knife out and then stabbed 40-50 times?

There's quite a bit more in this article:

http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/news/story.html?id=ba3498aa-995c-4f03-92f7-1a3cb0c79532
Click to expand...

I think it depends on Canadian law. In the US premeditation requires seconds but could be different in another country. The fact of carrying a knife doesn't intend that you will use it but he did. Over and over. If I were on the jury there would be no question of his intent to kill and that there was no provocation. To me that is the basis of this crime. Insane? Very possibly. But, this kind of insanity is not curable and he should be locked away forever. He is a menace to society.
 
jilly said:
I agree with Capoly & Fran - Those guys got everyone out to safety first. Even a paramedic when s/he gets to an accident scene ensures their own safety before helping anyone. Good grief, these people were in major shock, some crying, some puking, absolutely terrorized. Kudos to the bus driver, Mr Katon and the truck driver for somehow keeping their wits to keep others from being mutilated.

I have 2 questions as a result of this.

1. Why did the RCMP negotiate with this maniac for several hours and only took him down when he broke a window and jumped out; and

2. Why has the Crown charged the maniac with second degree?? He took the large hunting knife on the bus; he changed seats after a short stop and sat beside the young man; he pulled out the knife and started stabbing.
Click to expand...

I too wondered why the second degree charge. It wasn't like they got into an argument and it was done "in the heat of the moment". He took that knife on the bus planning to hurt someone I believe.

It is all so sad.
 
This is the most insane story i have read in awhile. My prayers for that poor young man & his family. Only a psycho could do such a thing; did they figure out if this Li person has a history of such?
 
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