CANADA Canada - Tofield, AB, 'Septic Tank Sam' Ntv/WhtMale 1046UMAB, 25-30, Apr'77

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Rle7, Sep 3, 2007.

  1. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    I hope the RCMP rethink their assumption that because there were no missing persons in Alberta at the time who matched Sam's description that they concluded he was not a resident of the province.

    So many Does that have been identified were never reported missing. Considering how fluid movement was back in the 1970s, they should consider Sam may have be an Alberta native.
     
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  2. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    Yes that’s all. If the motive for his very violent murder was known, LE would also know his identity and who was involved in killing him.

    Just another couple of thoughts - Because his body was dumped in a septic tank at an abandoned rural residence, his body was never meant to be found. Whether it be pits, old wells or old septic tanks it’s common for farm folk to dispose of animal carcasses in that same way.

    During the 70s, the number of farms/homesteads continued to rapidly decline as more and more people moved away from farms to the cities. Buildings were leveled or allowed to decay until they fell down, agricultural crops took over the entire 1/4 section. The rural area around Tofield was sparsely populated back then and still is today.

    So another reason I think the killer/s lived within a range of miles of the abandoned property is they’d have no reason to expect “Sam’s” body would ever be found especially that lime was added, also an agricultural product. As far as the killers believed at the time, he was permanently placed where nobody would ever find him. It was just by chance that years later the property owners checked it out, looking for a pump and noticed evidence of a dead body. For anyone unfamiliar with septic tanks, typically they’re filled with rotting sludge.


    JMO
     
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  3. branmuffin

    branmuffin Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I believe the killers are somewhat local, meaning within a 50 km range. His murder may have been random and his ethnicity may have been the reason he was targeted.

    It's a horrible thing to think about, but casual cruelty toward aboriginals in this country was not unheard of back in the day. I used to work for a large police force that covered areas where a large FN population lived. For Friday night giggles some cops used to drive inebriated natives to the city limits and have them walk back to town. Didn't matter the weather or whether their clothing was suitable for the cold. Worse things as well which I won't get into.

    That was before my time with them but as shocked as I was in hearing of the abuse I was more shocked that some of these cops seemed a bit nostalgic for being able to engage in that type of behavior and had no problem exchanging 'war' stories.
     
  4. MistyWaters

    MistyWaters Well-Known Member

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    I agree, anything is possible. Although it doesn’t appear Sam’s aboriginal heritage would’ve been totally unique in and around Tofield at the time.

    The most recent 2016 Tofield census indicates of the total population, 6% or 110 people have Aboriginal ancestry and 1,720 do not. While that proves nothing in itself, it’s appears to me as a melting pot similar to other communities. I’d think not much has changed over time considering the Saddle Lake reserve is located to the north and Maskwacis to the west.

    https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-...1=All&GeoLevel=PR&GeoCode=1165&TABID=1&type=0
     
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  5. KKYYC

    KKYYC Member

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    Just read back a few pages re: Sam and I have a couple thoughts.

    First, those digital reconstructions are incredible!!

    Second, I wonder if Sam was a product of residential schooling which is why he was never reported missing? Maybe he ran away when younger or had nowhere to go at 18? Parents perhaps unfindable?

    Lastly, the strangest part of his death to me is that he was sexually assaulted? That's some real hate right there. Was he given a taste of his own medicine being a known sexual offender in the area? Or was this racially motivated to a putrid degree? If, possibly, he was a known offender, maybe it's worth looking into reported rapes/ assaults in the area from that time period? I'm not assuming anything, just wondering if this avenue has been ventured down.
     
  6. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    That’s a great idea, looking for any reported assaults, maybe from mid 1976
     
  7. DFrancisco

    DFrancisco Member

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    Hi all, new member here, but have been researching the Tofield Sam Doe case for a couple years now. I've read through this entire thread from page one, and here some potential answers to a couple questions posed by other members:

    Q: Is the farmhouse still in existence?
    A: From what I have read, no. I read an article just a few days ago that had mentioned that the property had been torn down and residential housing units built over where the body was found. I have gone through my spreadsheet of articles and their respective links and have not located that article. I must have forgotten to add it to my spread sheet. I will locate it again and reference once confirmed.

    Q: Did former Sgt. Lammerts accidentally let slip information that he may know more than he has let on over the years?
    A: Likely but not certain. He did mention he has a suspect or suspects that he believes fit the bill, but he never was able to achieve hard evidence and could therefore not investigate that suspicion any further. I was able to locate Lammerts's current contact information just a few days ago (02 Feb. 2021) and I have since emailed him directly, inquiring as to whether or not he would be able to expound further on the "peculiar phone call" received by his detachment a couple months prior to the discovery of Sam (he believes that phone call and the location it brought them to, 2-5 mins drive from where Sam was discovered, are linked). Currently I am waiting for a response for him. Hopefully I don't get the brush-off. Either way, I will be back to update anyone who may still be following this thread whether I receive a response or not.

    I also firmly believe that the RCMP should really consider releasing those dental records and the facial reconstructions to the upper western/ upper mid-western United States: Washington, Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, the Dakotas. Should the theory hold true that he was transient or a migrant worker of Native/Native-Caucasian descent, it could be highly possible that he had traveled from the US to Canada. That being said, it could also be that he was tortured and killed in the US and his remains transported and ultimately dumped in Alberta. Or he went north of the border for work and was murdered in Canada. Tofield is only about 350 miles (apprx. 560 km) from the US border, which would make it a five-and-a-half to six hour drive. Additionally, there are quite a few reservations on the US side of the border as well as many near the Tofield area. As mentioned by previously by other members, Canada has had a long and proven disregard for their First Nations people and, as it is in the US, reservations are often lacking the resources afforded to the communities that surround them. That means there is a probability that Sam's family may have never even been aware of the facial reconstructions or the details of the crime, whether because they are Stateside where it wasn't published or because they lived on a Canadian reservation where it is likely that information never circulated. In addition to releasing dental records and facial reconstruction images Stateside, I think they should certainly attempt to reach out more actively and directly to the reservations in the area surrounding Tofield.
     
  8. dotr

    dotr Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to Ws DFrancisco, thanks for the thought-provoking post, looking forward to more!
     
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  9. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to WS!
    Hope that you get answers!
    What can you recall from the peculiar phone call?
     
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  10. DFrancisco

    DFrancisco Member

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    Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

    Feme98: as far as the phone call is concerned, Lammerts has not given any detailed information aside from the fact that he believed it was a highly unusual call that lead him to an area about a 2-5 minute drive from Sam Doe's dumping site and he strongly believes that it was related his murder. He also had a suspect or suspects in mind, but, in his words: "if you can't prove anything, you can't say anything." So those leads, as far as I know, have gone unexplored. Unless of course he either investigated them himself outside of the RCMP while he was still on the force or has since already reported them to the RCMP as a private citizen after his retirement. Even after doing a tonne of research, I still can't locate any notes on that call and Lammerts's suspicions.

    An article in the Globe and Mail mentioned two VERY specific peronal details about Lammerts. Following those details lead me to his contact information, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he will respond to my email soon.
     
  11. DFrancisco

    DFrancisco Member

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    Additionally, I have started researching missing persons in the upper United States (west and mid-west states) between the years of 1972 up until 1977, searching for any possible matches to Sam Doe. As I am sure many of you already have done, I am scouring multiple sources including The Doe Network, The Charley Project, NamUs, NCMEC, and publicly available police records to find as many leads as possible. There have been a couple potential leads I'm looking at now, but I do not have enough information on those quite yet to post them as possibilities. Should my research supply any definitive potentiality, I will post them here with the appropriate refernce information.
     
  12. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully he responds soon with a big outcome to this case!

    As per the call, it’s possible that the details and possible link is being kept to not compromise the investigation.

    So far, you’ve done a lot of awesome research! Hopefully your leads give our UID his identity and that of his killer!

    Great job!
     
  13. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I have nothing beneficial to add to the thread, but wanted to pop in and post that I hope Mr. Sam can/will be identified soon! <3
     
  14. DFrancisco

    DFrancisco Member

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    Update ya'll:

    I've heard back from former Sgt. Lammerts, and he was pretty reticent in regards to my specific questions about the phone call and his suspects at the time of Sam Doe's discovery. He did mention that he does not believe that the case will ever be solved, but that he would update me should he receive any updates. I won't hold my breath, but I'm keeping my mind open about it.

    Anyway...an update on what I'm currently working on:

    If isotope/DNA testing have shown Sam to be of Native descent, then there is a possibility that he may have been from one of the surrounding 1st Nations reservations (I know it has been mentioned before; just revisiting the general idea for clarification on my intent). I am compiling a list of all the 1st Nations reserves in Alberta to begin with in a Google Docs spreadsheet highlighting their distances from Tofield/Lyndbrook. I have never used the "share" feature within Google, but once I figure out how to do that, I will post it here. Once those reservations within the province of Alberta are all compiled, I will then move on to British Colombia and Saskatchewan, as well as those immediately abutting and near the US/Canada border stateside. I hope to eventually to look into specifically finding out if there were any people missing from those reservations from around the time of Sam's discovery (that information seems to be difficult to locate, so it might take some time). Also, once the Share feature is enabled on the spreadsheet (which I will probably just continue updating as new information is received), I hope it will be of use to any other, more experienced sleuthers who may want to look into the information with a more detailed eye. Power in numbers ya'll!

    Until then, keep sleuthing and stay safe!
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  15. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    You are doing such amazing work!
     
  16. DFrancisco

    DFrancisco Member

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    Thanks, Feme98! I know that it all may be in vain, but fingers crossed it helps someone, ANYONE crack open an unexplored lead!
     
  17. MadMcGoo

    MadMcGoo Well-Known Member

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    I agree with Feme, @DFrancisco you’re doing some amazing work for Sam!!
     
  18. Feme98

    Feme98 Well-Known Member

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    I have a feeling that he is going to be identified this year!
     
  19. DFrancisco

    DFrancisco Member

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    Wouldn't that be great?! Do you have information as to where the investigation might currently stand as far as his identity is concerned?!
     
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  20. ntt1

    ntt1 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I e-mailed one of the RCMP officers involved with the case early last year and they said they were looking into genetic genealogy as a means to investigate this, as it seems that legislative barriers had been cleared up at the time. No news since, but that doesn't necessarily mean that nothing is being done.

    I really think that is the only way that this one will be solved.
     
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