Casey- Jesse Grund

Discussion in 'Caylee Anthony 2 years old' started by Egoslayer, Jan 19, 2009.

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  1. Egoslayer

    Egoslayer New Member

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    Ok this thread is basically about her relationship with Jesse and how she's changed according to him.

    First of all, I think a woman that would murder a born child wouldn't have a problem murdering an unborn child (abortion has less consequence and social stigma). So why didn't she abort Caylee? Jesse says she used to be different - and then something changed.

    I know it's common for exboyfriends to talk about their exgirlfriends this way - "that's not the girl I dated". However, we can look at Casey's actions and deduce she was different.

    The way she was: She did not abort Caylee - she didn't party - she was faithful to Jesse - She stayed in a long-term relationship; they got engaged - she had a job as assistant manager at a Kodak Store (according to Jesse Grund).

    The new casey: Many boyfriends, inconsistent relationships - partying - alleged promiscuity - accused of murder, child abuse, & obstruction of justice - NO job - steals money.

    So what do you think something snapped? I think it's related to Jesse Grund. Allegedly they broke up twice, the second time because Casey thought Jesse loved Caylee more. I don't know why they broke up the other time, but I think its significant. An engagement is a big deal, and their relationship was serious. I know serious relationships often times take years to get over. Remember how she tried to pin it on Jesse when speaking to her mom. "I don't trust Jesse, I want him as far away as possible." Could this be related to motive? Was this a way to get back at Jesse? It would help to know why they broke up in the first place. Any input is appreciated.
     
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  3. kline

    kline New Member

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    Interesting question Ego.
    My guess (admittedly I dont know Casey Anthony or Jesse so its just that.) But it possible that she didnt reveal her true self to him until she couldnt hide it anymore.
    Sociopaths have an uncanny abilty to become a'mirror' as such and reflect what people want to see back at themselves.
    They feel a need to 'belong' in alot of ways for alot of reasons and can be real chamelions when it suits them.
    For awhile.
    He wouldnt be the first person to become intimately involved with a schizoid borderline then be stunned when they start engaging in all manner of anti-social 'uncharacteristic' behavior.
    Ill bet we have folks right here on this board who could tell us just such stories.
    Its not unusual for the sociopath to be the model employee who impresses his bosses and charms his coworkers....until they stop showing up for work embezzle funds and wreck the company car with two hookers in the front seat with them.
    Everyone around them is as stunned as Jesse.
    It almost like they get bored and have to shoot themselves in the foot and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
    Same story with personal relationships.
    I think this syndrome may be one explanation.
     
  4. Brini

    Brini Future Irene Adler

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    She wasn't faithful to JG. JG's dad caught her loving up another guy on MySpace, and talking about getting together with him, "When you come home." (I think I remember he was military).

    Nothing "snapped." She morphed into a religious homebody for JG. My guess is that JG's quiet lifestyle didn't suit her. CA also didn't like the Gs. Another poster opined that CA didn't want to share Caylee. Also, KC was angry that JG wouldn't put his name on the birth cert.

    KC was promiscuous before and after JG. Ryan, who knew her since she was five or six, would not give JB a character reference for KC.

    She could've aborted, but I doubt that she thought about how much time and energy children need, or how totally they impact one's lifestyle. When she found out, she killed Caylee. CA suddenly demanded that KC get a job, move out, and become a responsible mother. We know what KC's response was.

    KC got engaged to JG. Lately, she wanted to be married to TL, when she had only known him a month. LE found a piece of paper where she was practicing her married name with Tony-- and she didn't even know how to spell his last name. That's how serious KC is. It's about "Mr. Right Now."

    She had one job in her whole life. The management liked her, and were considering her for management training. However, they also had a problem with her coming in late, sometimes, after partying. When she got bored with the job, she just stopped coming in.

    No secrets, no trauma. She's just a common, shallow-as-a-teaspoon sociopath.
     
  5. kline

    kline New Member

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    I dont see a Snap either.
    One face for Jesse one for her parents one for the club ect.ect.ect.
    Pretty common.
    It doesnt mean Jesse or anyone else is niave.
    People like Casey are Acadamy Award contenders when they want to be.
     
  6. Lady Sleuth

    Lady Sleuth New Member

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    You would have to have lived with a sociopath to understand the complication of their personalities. I have one in my family and let's just say that the calm times are bearable and the other times it is a "**** storm".

    You can never anticipate what one day will be like with a sociopath. They do not conform to the norms of anticipated behavior. Just when you think things with them are leveling out...they can act out and simply spiral downwards with their behavior. My loved one does a lot of faking to appear as she thinks someone expects her to behave. They can change their spots in a moments time.

    They can change for any occasion...they can adapt to every person they encounter...they are the best at manipulation and cunning and change to suit whatever is called for at the moment in time.

    Lady Sleuth
    jmho
     
  7. BetsyB

    BetsyB New Member

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    The thing about sociopaths is that they don't form genuine relationships. They present to each person what they believe that person wants and needs. This allows them to get what THEY want from the relationship--which is their sole aim. They don't seek mutual fulfillment; they seek self-gratification.

    It's very possible that Casey wanted a sweet, domestic relationship with Jesse. That she play-acted that role. She may have even been content with it for quite a while. It certainly seems as though this was the case.

    It's also quite possible that at that very same time, she was acting monstrously in other relationships.

    It depends on what she wanted and "needed" at the time. It's perfectly reasonable to think she, like everyone else on the planet, went through periods of neediness and periods of relative calm. When things were rolling along okay, one wouldn't expect a plethora of misbehavior.

    Relationships with sociopaths are very confusing. While I realized my father (a sociopath) was not quite "normal" by the time I was a very young teen, I didn't really put two and two together until I had been out of his house for about 20 years! And I didn't gain full perspective until I severed ties and was able to process things with my sibs.

    It's very possible to feel loved and nurtured by a sociopath. It is purely false--there is no love. There may be nurturing acts, if they serve the sociopath's purpose or amuse him at the moment.

    It's very, very hard to understand this---I've felt loved by a sociopath, but know the confusion of feeling, the very next second, as though he'd happily kill me.

    This dichotomy caused my siblings and I to sort of wryly conclude that there's no one better able to make you happy to be abused than a sociopath.

    When it's "good," it's very, very good. When it's bad, it's terrifying.

    Jesse got the "good."
     
  8. eddeva

    eddeva New Member

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    i agree w/ everything. this is exactly what i would have said, but brini said it better.
     
  9. Vegas Bride

    Vegas Bride New Member

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    We don't know what Caseys plan was when she was pregnant with Caylee. She seemed to be totally ignoring and not accepting the fact she was pregnant for several months, no prenatal care etc and denying she was pregnant when her parents finally started asking. If she had been able to deny it and gave birth I wonder what she would have done then? imo she may well have tried to get rid of the baby then. Why not go and get an abortion? Getting an abortion would have meant admitting to someone she was pregnant, also the possibility her parents could find out also the expense, easier for her right at that moment to try and ignore it and go on as usual, then she was to far along to have one.

    We have no way of knowing how faithful she was to Jesse. For a while he was coming in handy but then he dared to have the paternity test done, that showed he stood up to her and called her on something, that is something imo Casey was not used to, in her mind he should have just accepted he was the father and never had that test done. After he did that his days were numbered.

    Casey molded herself into who she needed to be in the moment. I do not think Casey ever let Jesse know who she really was.
    Casey reminds me of a young child who will keep pushing the boundaries, her stealing got bolder, her sleeping around with multiple partners etc. she just kept getting deeper into all of it and no boundaries ever came down until now with her sitting in jail. She never learned she could not lie and steal with her parents, maybe she now knows that those things don't work with the police.

    VB
     
  10. tiredofthis

    tiredofthis New Member

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    :clap::clap::clap:

    Great post.
     
  11. PaddieAB

    PaddieAB Former Member

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    I don't believe it.

    There is a problem with Jesse and IMO it appears recently the Grunds have jumped fence. Makes me wonder why.

    Does anyone remember that early on, his father painted the picture that Casey took his son for a ride. He said Casey lied about her pregnancy to everyone including Jesse, and told them she has some sort of tumor, which Jesse initially believed as well (but RG didn’t and set him straight). Then Casey goes on to convince Jesse he is Caylee’s father. Caylee was born in Aug/05 and Jesse says he first met Casey in Jan/05 when they both worked at Universal. The math doesn’t fit.....thus the DNA paternity test which proved Casey lied to Jesse. (But Jesse doesn’t care....)

    Both lies are pretty significant IMO and would send most young men running for the hills. But not Jesse.....

    And Jesse says he knew this wonderful Casey (who he knows lies) and she just “recently” changed. Huh?
     
  12. Blackwatch

    Blackwatch Former Member

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    Yes, you are so right. I have a couple of them in my life and, believe me, it's hell. You can't believe a word they say. They will make nice and lie and cry, and promise, and get on their bellies and crawl like a reptile if they want something. But, the minute you don't supply their needs, they cut you off until they need you again. They never change, they just change their story to suit the moment and they are sooooo believable.
     
  13. IRule254

    IRule254 New Member

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    To put it in a nutshell: I think getting older had a lot to do with it, perhaps she felt like time was running out of time to get what she wanted out of life which I think was either being, at least, semi famous & also snagging a man who could give her the lifestyle she yearned for. She wasn't getting any younger...The "single mom" card was no longer working to her advantage and the novelty was fast wearing off. Meaning that she could no longer just use Casey to get attention and then dump her off on Grandma. Cindy was cracking down.

    The second option is drugs. Plain and simple, drugs can change a person. But, of course, I don't know for sure if her drug use was purely "recreational" or if she was beginning to have major problems.

    BUT, I don't think she had fallen too far with drugs or she would have figured out another way to cash Amys checks and use the $$$ for drugs, rather than spending money at Target.
     
  14. PaulaF513

    PaulaF513 New Member

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    It's interesting to contemplate why KC did not simply abort an unwanted pregnancy. Obviously, she was not involved in a longterm relationship that had gone sour, since late in the term she was going with JG.

    What is the law in FL regarding abortion? It isn't at all uncommon for young girls to go into denial about being pregnant until it's too late to abort. Also, are there free clinics that she could have utilized or would she have had to use her mother's insurance? If the latter, she may have thought that her mother would be told.

    Who really knows? At this point, all this speculation is moot. KC found her own way to free herself from parenthood.
     
  15. Marple

    Marple Active Member

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    I doubt money for an abortion was a problem. KC was resourceful when it came to "finding" money.
     
  16. yolorado

    yolorado New Member

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    She lied to Jesse that he was the father of her child, then she tried to manipulate him into not taking a paternity test IIFC. She let Jesse play father to her child and then yanked them apart. That seems like pretty standard KC fare for the KC we've met through this tragedy. She seems to have moved on from Jesse to TonE, with a couple of stops in between. I think she was looking for a guy to get her away from her situation at the Anthony's, pretty much any guy, but she doesn't seem to have any particular feelings for Jesse. She said she 'didn't trust' Jesse, but she also said she worked at Universal as an event planner, that Caylee was with her parents or a babysitter for 31 days after she'd very probably been double-bagged and thrown away like trash. She also said Zanny had been her babysitter for years, had been referred to her by Jeff, who she told her mom was considering becomming a family with her. She said she had a friend nammed Juliet and that Zanny and her sister Sam had been in an accident. Later, she told people that Zanny took Caylee from the Sawgrass, or from Jay Blanchard Park. I really can't put much faith in anything KC says. In fact, if KC said we shouldn't trust Jesse, I'd probably take that as proof we should!
     
  17. Blackwatch

    Blackwatch Former Member

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    If JG had never met a sociopath before, he would not have been aware of what quick-change artists they are. To him she was sweet, and ready to live HIS lifestyle. When he didn't go along with everything she wanted, ie, birth certificate, etc., and took a paternity test, she showed her other side, her REAL self. That's why Jessee thought she changed.

    Most people have not had experiences with sociopaths so I can understand why he was bewildered. Maybe he should do some reading and research so he will understand. But, even I who knows a LOT better, sometimes still gets sucked in because I love them and I WANT to believe they really aren't evil.

    My opinion only
     
  18. Whisperer

    Whisperer New Member

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    Her recent statements of not trusting Annie or JESSIE, the only two people out side of her family who knows her, were to keep the family away from finding out any information about her.
     
  19. Whisperer

    Whisperer New Member

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    Having and abortion requires planning and taking responsibility to have the procedure done. I don't advocate it but in retrospect, it is easy to say she should have. kc does not have any ability to think and reason properly. She lives in the moment..."I'll deal with it later" is her thinking, planning is not her strength. She exists in a logic-free zone...:rolleyes:
     
  20. Blackwatch

    Blackwatch Former Member

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    EXACTLY. That's what sociopaths do - they keep people separated so they can't compare notes - they keep them at each other's throats with the sociopath in the middle orchestrating the whole thing. If people were allowed to get together they would find out the truth - the sociopath was lying to, and using, BOTH sides for their own advantage.
     
  21. BetsyB

    BetsyB New Member

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    I didn't say that what Jesse got was good. But it was the "good" Casey had to offer.

    The fact that he didn't run for the hills doesn't surprise me tremendously. We all put up with things that would make others shake their heads. What's one person's dealbreaker is not another person's.

    Jesse was young, naive, and in love. He was more inclined to find reasonable excuses for Casey's behavior than to leap to the conclusion that there was something seriously pathological about Casey.

    I agree that there's more to the story than we're hearing, but hindsight is always 20/20. I think if he were honest with himself now (or in the future, when the freshness of the horror diminishes), he'd say that things weren't good, ever. Because they weren't--even if things weren't always bumpy, there never was a genuine goodness. He just didn't get as many glimpses of the monster as some others.
     
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