Casey- Jesse Grund

[sweetmop]

She wasn't faithful to JG. JG's dad caught her loving up another guy on MySpace, and talking about getting together with him, "When you come home." (I think I remember he was military).

Nothing "snapped." She morphed into a religious homebody for JG. My guess is that JG's quiet lifestyle didn't suit her. CA also didn't like the Gs. Another poster opined that CA didn't want to share Caylee. Also, KC was angry that JG wouldn't put his name on the birth cert.

KC was promiscuous before and after JG. Ryan, who knew her since she was five or six, would not give JB a character reference for KC.

She could've aborted, but I doubt that she thought about how much time and energy children need, or how totally they impact one's lifestyle. When she found out, she killed Caylee. CA suddenly demanded that KC get a job, move out, and become a responsible mother. We know what KC's response was.

KC got engaged to JG. Lately, she wanted to be married to TL, when she had only known him a month. LE found a piece of paper where she was practicing her married name with Tony-- and she didn't even know how to spell his last name. That's how serious KC is. It's about "Mr. Right Now."

She had one job in her whole life. The management liked her, and were considering her for management training. However, they also had a problem with her coming in late, sometimes, after partying. When she got bored with the job, she just stopped coming in.

No secrets, no trauma. She's just a common, shallow-as-a-teaspoon sociopath.

I agree with what you've said here, Brini. She was the same ole Casey that we see today. She was just in different " character " at the time she was with Jesse. She is a chameleon, and just "acts" one way or another as the situation calls to fit in. It's about deception and manipulation.

Good analogy, Brini... " just a common, shallow-as-a-teaspoon sociopath".
I think there may also be a touch or two of psychopath 'in there' as well.

 

[Paintr]

I agree with what you've said here, Brini. She was the same ole Casey that we see today. She was just in different " character " at the time she was with Jesse. She is a chameleon, and just "acts" one way or another as the situation calls to fit in. It's about deception and manipulation.

Good analogy, Brini... " just a common, shallow-as-a-teaspoon sociopath".
I think there may also be a touch or two of psychopath 'in there' as well.

I am rather surprised that KC was ever interested in JG in the first place. Nothing against JG but rather he didn't seem to be her "type". He seems quieter, from a reglious family, not flashy...a solid individual. What was the attraction there for KC?

 

[sweetmop]

I am rather surprised that KC was ever interested in JG in the first place. Nothing against JG but rather he didn't seem to be her "type". He seems quieter, from a reglious family, not flashy...a solid individual. What was the attraction there for KC?

The attraction? He was male! lol!

She probably realized that he was a very nice young man, and she thought she could convince him that the baby was indeed his and he would take her at her word.
I bet Jesse is wondering today how he ever got mixed up with her!

 

[tx_Dot]

Ok this thread is basically about her relationship with Jesse and how she's changed according to him.

First of all, I think a woman that would murder a born child wouldn't have a problem murdering an unborn child (abortion has less consequence and social stigma). So why didn't she abort Caylee? Jesse says she used to be different - and then something changed.

I know it's common for exboyfriends to talk about their exgirlfriends this way - "that's not the girl I dated". However, we can look at Casey's actions and deduce she was different.

The way she was: She did not abort Caylee - she didn't party - she was faithful to Jesse - She stayed in a long-term relationship; they got engaged - she had a job as assistant manager at a Kodak Store (according to Jesse Grund).

The new casey: Many boyfriends, inconsistent relationships - partying - alleged promiscuity - accused of murder, child abuse, & obstruction of justice - NO job - steals money.

So what do you think something snapped? I think it's related to Jesse Grund. Allegedly they broke up twice, the second time because Casey thought Jesse loved Caylee more. I don't know why they broke up the other time, but I think its significant. An engagement is a big deal, and their relationship was serious. I know serious relationships often times take years to get over. Remember how she tried to pin it on Jesse when speaking to her mom. "I don't trust Jesse, I want him as far away as possible." Could this be related to motive? Was this a way to get back at Jesse? It would help to know why they broke up in the first place. Any input is appreciated.

Jesse *seems* to think KC has changed, I sure don't see it......she lied about being pregnant, lied that he was the Daddy, stole money from him, cheated on him, got mad when he did the DNA tests, said she returned to work...etc.

Even tho Jesse states LE has asked him not to talk w/the media.....he's now done a 'media blitz'.....claiming "the KC now, is not the KC I knew" (like there has been a complete change in her mentally).

He'll make a great witness,...... for THE DEFENSE....

oh, & it is KC throwing Jesse "under the bus", early on she's told all the A's not to trust him.

 

[debs]

I imagine Casey played the "Fake it til you make it game" and lost.

 

[gardenhart]

It's interesting to contemplate why KC did not simply abort an unwanted pregnancy. Obviously, she was not involved in a longterm relationship that had gone sour, since late in the term she was going with JG.

What is the law in FL regarding abortion? It isn't at all uncommon for young girls to go into denial about being pregnant until it's too late to abort. Also, are there free clinics that she could have utilized or would she have had to use her mother's insurance? If the latter, she may have thought that her mother would be told.

Who really knows? At this point, all this speculation is moot. KC found her own way to free herself from parenthood.

I think Casey can do a terrific job of ignoring the consequences of things she's done wrong. When she got pregnant, she just ignored it, refused to face up to it and by the time her clueless parents faced up to it (perhaps they tend to do the same?) it was far too late to have an abortion.

She's kind of like a "I'll think about that tomorrow" Scarlett O'Hara only without the good and strong parts.

I agree that she never changed really, she just managed to convince Jesse that she was a different person than she really was. Perhaps she managed to convince herself of that for a while too while she played the role of the good girl.

 

[tx_Dot]

If JG had never met a sociopath before, he would not have been aware of what quick-change artists they are. To him she was sweet, and ready to live HIS lifestyle. When he didn't go along with everything she wanted, ie, birth certificate, etc., and took a paternity test, she showed her other side, her REAL self. That's why Jessee thought she changed.

Most people have not had experiences with sociopaths so I can understand why he was bewildered. Maybe he should do some reading and research so he will understand. But, even I who knows a LOT better, sometimes still gets sucked in because I love them and I WANT to believe they really aren't evil.

My opinion only

Yep, she fooled him years ago, but he should of figured her out by now, esp. in the last few months.....

So why, a 'media blitz' NOW, claiming she changed so much ??

 

[Paintr]

I imagine Casey played the "Fake it til you make it game" and lost.

Could she have found out dhe was pregnant and wanted Jesse as a solid Daddy for Caylee, so she tried to con him into accepting the 'happy family' story? The paternity test broke that theory so it was now too much work for her to fit into a lifestyle she wasn't attracted too. Maybe JG was her last chance to be 'respectable'

 

[Marple]

I agree that she never changed really, she just managed to convince Jesse that she was a different person than she really was. Perhaps she managed to convince herself of that for a while too while she played the role of the good girl.

How lucky he is that the relationship fell apart. There's no way KC could have kept up the charade for much longer, IMO.

 

[blupencl]

I have always believe that something happened - I have no idea what it was or what made it happen, but I believe something changed in Casey's life all of a sudden.

 

[tx_Dot]

Could she have found out dhe was pregnant and wanted Jesse as a solid Daddy for Caylee, so she tried to con him into accepting the 'happy family' story? The paternity test broke that theory so it was now too much work for her to fit into a lifestyle she wasn't attracted too. Maybe JG was her last chance to be 'respectable'

KC prolly thought life w/Jesse would be great (he believes anything she says).

 

[tx_Dot]

I have always believe that something happened - I have no idea what it was or what made it happen, but I believe something changed in Casey's life all of a sudden.

IDK...but Kio hints at KC having 'issues' even when they were in school.....

I think as she got older & made bigger mistakes, she had to tell bigger lies in an attempt to cover herself....(not pg at seven months. "female issue/still a virgin) etc...

 

[Paintr]

IDK...but Kio hints at KC having 'issues' even when they were in school.....

I think as she got older & made bigger mistakes, she had to tell bigger lies in an attempt to cover herself....(not pg at seven months. "female issue/still a virgin) etc...

I agree, TxDot. I think KC always had issues. Issues that could be 'smoothed' over when she was growing up. I think her issuse got bigger and had bigger consequences. They couldn't be hidden.

 

[heartfortruth]

The thing about sociopaths is that they don't form genuine relationships. They present to each person what they believe that person wants and needs. This allows them to get what THEY want from the relationship--which is their sole aim. They don't seek mutual fulfillment; they seek self-gratification.

It's very possible that Casey wanted a sweet, domestic relationship with Jesse. That she play-acted that role. She may have even been content with it for quite a while. It certainly seems as though this was the case.

It's also quite possible that at that very same time, she was acting monstrously in other relationships.

It depends on what she wanted and "needed" at the time. It's perfectly reasonable to think she, like everyone else on the planet, went through periods of neediness and periods of relative calm. When things were rolling along okay, one wouldn't expect a plethora of misbehavior.

Relationships with sociopaths are very confusing. While I realized my father (a sociopath) was not quite "normal" by the time I was a very young teen, I didn't really put two and two together until I had been out of his house for about 20 years! And I didn't gain full perspective until I severed ties and was able to process things with my sibs.

It's very possible to feel loved and nurtured by a sociopath. It is purely false--there is no love. There may be nurturing acts, if they serve the sociopath's purpose or amuse him at the moment.

It's very, very hard to understand this---I've felt loved by a sociopath, but know the confusion of feeling, the very next second, as though he'd happily kill me.

This dichotomy caused my siblings and I to sort of wryly conclude that there's no one better able to make you happy to be abused than a sociopath.

When it's "good," it's very, very good. When it's bad, it's terrifying.

Jesse got the "good."

WOW! I think you just explained some people in my life and may have helped me become a little "wiser" in some relationships. (thanks) I am often too gullible and believe what I want to believe about someone and I think that might be part of Jesse's problem.
And yes, I can see somewhere in the depths of Casey's soul (know some will think she is soulless, I don't think anyone is) that possibly she WANTED to be "normal", to have a family, but she just couldn't "hack it".......and like another poster said she "snatched failure from the jaws of victory" or so it seems. It also appears that she preferred risky and exciting over "normal" ( "DULL"?) MOO

 

[tx_Dot]

I agree, TxDot. I think KC always had issues. Issues that could be 'smoothed' over when she was growing up. I think her issuse got bigger and had bigger consequences. They couldn't be hidden.

Yep, seems to me even the A's show much 'experience' in having to pin her down for 'the truth'......

 

[PaddieAB]

I didn't say that what Jesse got was good. But it was the "good" Casey had to offer.

The fact that he didn't run for the hills doesn't surprise me tremendously. We all put up with things that would make others shake their heads. What's one person's dealbreaker is not another person's.

Jesse was young, naive, and in love. He was more inclined to find reasonable excuses for Casey's behavior than to leap to the conclusion that there was something seriously pathological about Casey.

I agree that there's more to the story than we're hearing, but hindsight is always 20/20. I think if he were honest with himself now (or in the future, when the freshness of the horror diminishes), he'd say that things weren't good, ever. Because they weren't--even if things weren't always bumpy, there never was a genuine goodness. He just didn't get as many glimpses of the monster as some others.

Yes I agree with what you say. What I find odd, is his early transcripts he's NOT defensive of Casey at all - before Caylee's body was found. He even said Casey was careless in regards to Caylee's safety and if Casey was involved in the death, an accident may have occurred.

July 23 and 31st Interview Transcript here:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642922/Grund-Jesse---Statement

I can't help but question the motives of anyone who chooses to go on National TV and paints an entirely different picture from information they've already given police. Many people believe what they see on NG or Geraldo, so wouldn't know anything other than how he portrayed himself on those shows........which IMO was purely for the purpose of gaining public sympathy toward HIMSELF and defending Casey. This isn't about him....is it?

 

[tx_Dot]

Yes I agree with what you say. What I find odd, is his early transcripts he's NOT defensive of Casey at all - before Caylee's body was found. He even said Casey was careless in regards to Caylee's safety and if Casey was involved in the death, an accident may have occurred.

July 23 and 31st Interview Transcript here:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642922/Grund-Jesse---Statement

I can't help but question the motives of anyone who chooses to go on National TV and paints an entirely different picture from information they've already given police. Many people believe what they see on NG or Geraldo, so wouldn't know anything other than how he portrayed himself on those shows........which IMO was purely for the purpose of gaining public sympathy toward HIMSELF and defending Casey. This isn't about him....is it?

ITA....& you said it better than me.

His 'defense' of her now seems to contradict his earlier statements to LE.

He also states he's not speaking to the media per LE. (in his sworn statement)

With something 'new' to say, & pic's to be shown, I can't help but wonder how much in "licensing fee's" was paid to the G family for this latest 'media blitz' ???

 

[accordn2me]

Yes I agree with what you say. What I find odd, is his early transcripts he's NOT defensive of Casey at all - before Caylee's body was found. He even said Casey was careless in regards to Caylee's safety and if Casey was involved in the death, an accident may have occurred.

July 23 and 31st Interview Transcript here:
http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1642922/Grund-Jesse---Statement

<snipped>

At the end of this interview when Jesse describes KC's potential reaction to the hypothetical accident...it really blows my mind! It sounds very much like he had realized on some level that she is a sociopath, BPD, whatever the term of the day is. He specifically tells LE she will make up her own reality!

The other parts I've read (and it's been very little) but where JG, & Amy are giving statements about KC saying that her parents are getting divorced and she and Amy will live in the house, even going so far as to have Amy change her address....how does one believe they can get away with such an untruth!?

It's like they take the concept of "law of attraction" (think it, say it, believe it and it will come true) to a new level!

 

[SuziQ]

I have always believe that something happened - I have no idea what it was or what made it happen, but I believe something changed in Casey's life all of a sudden.

IMO, Casey was always Casey and JG just didn't see it. But you bring up a good point. There could have been a trigger that threw her sociopathy into high gear. The Feds kept asking GA or insinuating to him that something happened to Casey "two years ago". One time they flat out asked GA "what happened to Casey two years ago?" GA brushed it aside and never gave an answer. Has anyone ever figured out what the agents were talking about? It's driving me nuts.

 

[Melly53]

Yep, she fooled him years ago, but he should of figured her out by now, esp. in the last few months.....

So why, a 'media blitz' NOW, claiming she changed so much ??

I don't think anything about KC changed nor was the ending of her relationship with JG any sort of a catalyst for the way she is now. She was not heartbroken over the end of their relationship because sociopaths are incapable of loving anyone outside of themselves. I know this only too well because I was married to one for six years. They don't "love", they just "use".

KC was and always will be a sociopath. The person JG thought he knew was in fact just another one of her "acts". He just hasn't figured that out yet. He was just another person in her life that she tried to "use" for her own purposes.

I think she latched onto JG because when the A's found out she was pregnant they wanted to know who the baby's Daddy was. JG seemed like a good candidate because he was respectable and from a family that she thought her parents would approve of. She tried to put it off on JG and would have gotten away with it if his father had not advised him to take a DNA test when Caylee was born. I sincerely doubt that she ever cared if Caylee had a father in her life or not. That JG was willing to marry her, even after he found out he was not the real father, was just icing on the cake because that would have given her a way out from under her parents house and rules. Unfortunately, or fortunately for him, her true nature blew that when she couldn't keep up the "act". According to RG she was not faithful to JG nor would she have been if she had gone ahead and married him IMO. IIRC I read on another thread where she had stolen money from JG too. I believe that RG also stated that she tried to get JG to get a place with her even after their relationship ended. Sorry but I don't see anything different about her now than what we know of her from then.

I do believe that JG loved KC and he loved Caylee and that made him blind to who and what KC really was. He is in denial because it is hard to admit, or accept, that you fell in love with someone, and were totally fooled by someone that is a sociopath.

JMO, IMO, MOO