Casey Returned to the Disposal Site - Theories

[BondJamesBond]

I found the answer to my question about the teddy bear. Page 68

http://www.wesh.com/download/2009/0730/20224513.pdf

It was the day she got the tattoo. WOW!!

:shocked2: WOW indeed! Great work! Harmony.

Sean should be able to testify if he saw Casey grab it 7/3 and what she might've said about it. I don't have the evidence file with me to see if the bear was ever recovered, etc.

Please consider searching for a thread on the bear and launching one, Harmony, if it doesn't already exist (I don't recall one :waitasec.

I'll resist the urge to rattle off bear questions 'till we hear back from you.
:clap:

 

[AZlawyer]

:shocked2: WOW indeed! Great work! Harmony.

Sean should be able to testify if he saw Casey grab it 7/3 and what she might've said about it. I don't have the evidence file with me to see if the bear was ever recovered, etc.

Please consider searching for a thread on the bear and launching one, Harmony, if it doesn't already exist (I don't recall one :waitasec.

I'll resist the urge to rattle off bear questions 'till we hear back from you.
:clap:

Wait--I think we're off a day. I believe the tattoo, Cindy's trip to Universal, and Casey's trip back to the house to get the teddy bear and who knows what else were all July 3. July 2 she made an appointment for the July 3 tattoo.

 

[JWG]

Wait--I think we're off a day. I believe the tattoo, Cindy's trip to Universal, and Casey's trip back to the house to get the teddy bear and who knows what else were all July 3. July 2 she made an appointment for the July 3 tattoo.

Not a real stretch of the imagination to believe she went to get the bear on the 3rd to comfort herself as a direct result of what she saw the morning of the 2nd.

 

[BondJamesBond]

I can't read the link from here. Does it indicate anything to tell us if the bear was noticed missing before or after the Universal trip?

 

[Harmony 2]

Not a real stretch of the imagination to believe she went to get the bear on the 3rd to comfort herself as a direct result of what she saw the morning of the 2nd.

Exactly why I said WOW!

 

[Harmony 2]

I can't read the link from here. Does it indicate anything to tell us if the bear was noticed missing before or after the Universal trip?

Cindy says when she got back to the house, after the trip to Universal, Caylee's teddy bear was gone...

 

[seagull65]

Allowing that we don't know the DEGREE to which Casey interacted with the disposal site - (IOW, ranging from drive by w/o stopping, to stopping nearby to observe/reflect w/o getting outta the Jeep, to tossing/dropping/planting evidence, to full-on interaction with the remains to recover some incriminating evidence) - after kicking this around w/ everyone and reviewing the discovery info...

... I'm convinced Casey revisited the disposal site in some capacity at least once.

Show of hands...any skeptics to make this interesting and challenge the thinking?

Otherwise, I appreciate everyone mulling this over. Thanks for your contributions. :thumb:

Just to clarify, I want to make sure I understand, we don't know if she ever went to the remains site at all, right? (Nothing about the pings specifies the remains site, right?) TIA
For example, could have just been driving by her family home or Lee's house, looping around to see if the car was there, or trying to decide if she wanted to try to go in for some of her stuff, or even considering going to one of these places to sleep, or trying to decide whether to talk to her family or not or whatever, we don't know?) Does a ping from in front of the remains site definitely hit the same tower as calls at the Hopespring house and Lee's house? TIA

The theories are interesting of course, thanks for the thread

 

[Just Jayla]

Just to clarify, I want to make sure I understand, we don't know if she ever went to the remains site at all, right? (Nothing about the pings specifies the remains site, right?) TIA
For example, could have just been driving by her family home or Lee's house, looping around to see if the car was there, or trying to decide if she wanted to try to go in for some of her stuff, or even considering going to one of these places to sleep, or trying to decide whether to talk to her family or not or whatever, we don't know?) Does a ping from in front of the remains site definitely hit the same tower as calls at the Hopespring house and Lee's house? TIA

The theories are interesting of course, thanks for the thread

The ping pros can answer you on the technical end, but for my part I am not basing my assumption on the pings alone-When I look at the big picture and KC's whereabouts that day and especially the day before (when she would have found her car missing), I find it quite plausible that she did visit at least the remains area, if not the actual bag.
Initially I thought the same as you wrote above, or that she was just driving by her parents' house to see if maybe cops were there. However, there are certain changes in her behavior after this night/morning that I believe could be a result of her observing the body.
I wrote earlier that I would need to know if she left something there in order to be 100% certain she revisited the remains-And that still holds true, it is the only way to know for sure. But as you already know, we have to fill in certain blanks, which seems okay as long as we use common sense and logic, not gossip and mistatements.

 

[sophie01]

Allowing that we don't know the DEGREE to which Casey interacted with the disposal site - (IOW, ranging from drive by w/o stopping, to stopping nearby to observe/reflect w/o getting outta the Jeep, to tossing/dropping/planting evidence, to full-on interaction with the remains to recover some incriminating evidence) - after kicking this around w/ everyone and reviewing the discovery info...

... I'm convinced Casey revisited the disposal site in some capacity at least once.

Show of hands...any skeptics to make this interesting and challenge the thinking?

Otherwise, I appreciate everyone mulling this over. Thanks for your contributions. :thumb:

P.S. I'm still in awe of Shadow & AZLawyer who hit on this BEFORE the remains were discovered. :bowdown:

I do think KC went by the remains sight, more than once just to assure herself that no one was hanging around the area. But I don't believe she would have gone into the woods near Caylee's body and especiallyat 4:00 in the morning. Eee Gads .... I can't even imagine.

 

[belle3]

I wondered about that too...but then realized it would do her no good to get the car title if it didn't have her name on it. Unless she didn't mind committing a little forgery and signing it over to herself...hmmmm :waitasec:

so sorry dont know where to put this but when i saw the reference to car title i noticed a phone call on the 16th of july at 04:54 to w. colonial tag agency. why would she make this phone call?
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/lazarro4280-4333.pdf

 

[Just Jayla]

so sorry dont know where to put this but when i saw the reference to car title i noticed a phone call on the 16th of july at 04:54 to w. colonial tag agency. why would she make this phone call?
http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/lazarro4280-4333.pdf

I cannot dowload this link, so I am taking your word for it

Great catch! I wonder if she spoke with anyone (how long is the call?) and if so, would her "account" have been noted that she made contact with them?

Since KC will not tell us why she called them, I would think TL should be asked if KC called on his behalf. Or Cameron's. IIRC, KC was at TL's by that time, so this call would not have been made for AH.

 

[belle3]

I cannot dowload this link, so I am taking your word for it

Great catch! I wonder if she spoke with anyone (how long is the call?) and if so, would her "account" have been noted that she made contact with them?

Since KC will not tell us why she called them, I would think TL should be asked if KC called on his behalf. Or Cameron's. IIRC, KC was at TL's by that time, so this call would not have been made for AH.

well she calls sean daly immediately before and i believe these phonecalls were in the morning so i dont know who she thought was gonna answer the phone at that time. but why call this place so early and in the middle of everything that was happeneing at that time. could it have something to do with her license maybe?? other than the car its the only thing i could think of

 

[LandAuxvasse]

Show of hands...any skeptics to make this interesting and challenge the thinking?

Respectfully snipped... I agree she revisited the remains site... I think finding the car missing was a small wake up call that her 10-minute thinking ahead pattern might be a little skewed and she would have had to make sure the remains were at least where she left them.

JMHO

 

[La.Sandy]

Could Casey's statement that went something like "They haven't even found the clothes yet" be related to a return visit to the remains site and what she saw there? I don't remember the details about where Caylee's clothes/clothing parts were found and if this could be possible. Could Casey have seen an item of clothing when she returned to the sight, but didn't look hard enough to find bones, etc. If she could easily find an item of Caylee's clothes perhaps she expected that someone else would be able to also.

 

[BB12]

I remember asking early in the case but never found out, were any of her pings consistent with any stops by the Lake Vaj house? (On any dates really in June-July, sorry to be so vague)

Also, the "loops by the remains site"-- could she just have been driving by Lee's thinking of going there, looking to see if he was home, or actually spending any time at Lee's, or scoping out her parents' house with thoughts of going in for some of her clothes or other things if she could get in and out without them hassling her, etc? (or for gas for example, from either Lee's or her parents' home). What else is in that ping area? Kio's parents house is there, don't know if Kio was there at the time (I only mention because of Kio's first story to LE about having gotten back in touch with Casey, Casey needing to borrow money, the discussion of let me know where to meet you with the money, etc, of course later recanted by Kio and she gave different dates anyway, July 9 I think, but anyway), what else is within that ping area, the house at the end of the street (the F. Gonzales house, the one that backs to the remains site) was it already for sale then, was it vacant? The Brackenwood house.... just trying to remember what all is within that ping area

If Casey is the killer, I wouldn't doubt if she did loop by the remains site--whoever the killer is, Casey or otherwise, I wouldn't be surprised if they returned to the scene MOO

Just my humble opinion -
:twocents:

I think KC was ALSO going back to Lee's house as I believe that KC killed Caylee at Lee's house on June 15th. KC could not return to TonyL apt with Caylee in tow that Father's day evening. KC only alternative was Lee's home which uses the same cell towers. IMO.

I do 100% believe KC went to the Caylee's body dump site to PLANT evidence.

 

[BondJamesBond]

Moving this thread over from the "[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233"]Resource Links, Case Calendar & Time Lines[/ame]" Forum for consideration in context w/ Casey's, "Diary of Days", and Cindy's, "my caylee is missing" myspace entries being discussed.

It's a quick 4-page read @ this point and relates to what may have been Casey's frame of mind when she penned her, "Diary of Days" on the morning of 7/2.

The ueber-quick summary is that, deduced by AZLawyer's observations of Casey's "relieved" :dance: behavior 7/2 - and supported by cell pings - Casey appears to have revisted the remains site...perhaps she simply drove by... parked nearby...or perhaps...engaged in something more :waitasec:...in the wee hours of the morning 7/2.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Just my humble opinion -
:twocents:

I think KC was ALSO going back to Lee's house as I believe that KC killed Caylee at Lee's house on June 15th. KC could not return to TonyL apt with Caylee in tow that Father's day evening. KC only alternative was Lee's home which uses the same cell towers. IMO.

I do 100% believe KC went to the Caylee's body dump site to PLANT evidence.

Wasn't this the same date she showed up at Jesse Grund's house for a 'shower'?

 

[DaughterAlice]

Great thread Bond.

Nothing really new to add-just wanted to add my 2 cents that I believe KC likely did return to the remains site to either leave something or pick something up.

Two possibilities have been suggested here that I think definitely fit with what we've seen of KC's personality and way of thinking:

It seems likely to me that she was having the nightmares after being confronted with the reality of decomposition (either by returning to the dump site or with what she saw of the process while little Caylee :furious: was still in the trunk, or both). I think the decomposition process was a major shock to her self-centered little senses. We know how little she thinks ahead. Therefore, she likely never even considered/imagined having to deal with the harsh realities of a dead body on which nature is taking it's course, or that the process would even (inevitably) occur. Why else would she drive around so long with a dead body in her trunk in the FL heat? I mean, duh.

You mentioned that perhaps the body was under water or that she couldn't find it. A definite possibility IMO. I have always thought there was something to the way she kept insisting she "had no idea" where Caylee was. I too have wondered if there wasn't some truth (in a KC-stretching-and-bending-the-truth-kind-of-way) to that statement as she seemed fixated on it. I've thought it was true on some level, in KC's mind at least.

Great thread guys. Hats off to JWG, Bond, AZLaywer and all of you.

BBM - we should find an Almanac to confirm the weather patterns at the time. My memory can be quite faulty, but I seem to recall that it was very VERY dry that year, until the tropical storme (Fey?) came along & gave us a huge soaker. Even if it DID rain before then, it's hard to imagine that it was enough to put the location underwater.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Someone else posted this in this thread, # 44:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4932799&postcount=44"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Casey returned to the disposal site - theories[/ame]


Week ending Rainfall amounts

6/8/2008 0.4
6/15/2008 1.71
6/22/2008 1.42
6/29/2008 2.02
7/6/2008 0.94

 

[Chiquita71]

Hello WS

I do not have any strong opinion re: Casey returning to the disposal site. This is sleuthing: Senior Class level and I am still in kindergarten. With the excellent information presented here, along with ping information: I can easily see Casey (as it is in the theory) at least drove by the remains site. This sleuthing is top notch and I am happy to be able to read as you sleuth. TIA.

RE: The teddy bear. Honestly, I don't know if I made this up or not: didn't Cindy say she told Casey she was sleeping with the bear? Because it smelled like Caylee? And, this one(I don't know why I think this): didn't Cindy say or someone say that Casey took the bear because Cindy said she was getting comfort from the bear?

Have I made this up, or am I repeating a theory I read and can no longer tell fantasy from reality? Let me know WS...TIA. :crazy:

...JS...