Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

Discussion in 'Zahra Clare Baker' started by wenwe4, Nov 12, 2010.

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  1. wenwe4

    wenwe4 Active Member

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    I believe that the talented people here can help to bring justice for this precious little girl. I have seen incredible sleuthing, valuable information from experts in the field and laypeople alike. While our hearts are breaking that we believe she has passed, our common goal unites us.

    While we are waiting for final confirmation that the remains found are indeed Zahra's, I have hesitated to start this thread as I do not wish to be disrespectful to anyone - especially Zahra or her family. Sadly, I do not believe that there is any chance we will find Zahra alive at this point, and am hoping to begin our focus on putting pieces together that might have led up to her demise.

    If Mods feel this is an inappropriate thread at this time, my sincerest apologies and feel free to delete. I am only hoping to continue our ferverent focus and sleuthing - on a topic that is looking to be highly relevant. Please know, I mean NO disrespect in opening this thread.
     
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  3. stormsailor

    stormsailor New Member

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    i've been thinking the same thoughts. but i don't believe we can do anything but wag. we do not know what evidence the body may reveal. we do not know what evidence is already collected, other than area's in the home and what was revealed on the first search warrant. we can make educated guesses from this info and from statements made by people interviewed in msm, but those are not depositions and are not really credible.

    now its just wait and see.
     
  4. grayjay

    grayjay Active Member

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    They desecrated the body, most likely to cover up for desecrating the body.
     
  5. wenwe4

    wenwe4 Active Member

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    Sadly, Fox news is now announcing that the remains are indeed Zahra's.

    The human remains found in North Carolina Wednesday were confirmed to be those of missing Australian 10-year-old Zahra Baker, WCNC-TV reported Friday, citing a source close to the investigation.

    Authorities discovered a bone last week that may be connected to Zahra’s case.

    snipped from http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,602162,00.html
     
  6. wenwe4

    wenwe4 Active Member

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    I have a few theories in mind about what might have led to Zahra's death. Of course there are theories of abuse, both physical and sexual. I am more curious about the effects of Neglect on Zahra. Essentially, withholding from the child the very things they need to thrive and grow. For Zahra, we know she needed a prosthetic leg, crutches, and continual medical monitoring for her amputation - as well as ensuring her cancer didn't return.

    We have a WS member here who has invaluable first hand information about amputees and prosthesis. I am hoping Allusonz will again post about how often a child needs to have checkups and adjustments, etc on their prosthetic leg.

    What would be the consequences of an ill fitting prosthesis? I am wondering if wounds - left untreated could result in infection and a systemic response.
     
  7. Meagain

    Meagain New Member

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    I imagine the mattress (assuming they have that) will tell much.
    And what DID ever happen with the mattress situation?
     
  8. DLT88

    DLT88 New Member

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    I remember her posting about that. She said (oy, forgive my lack of medical terminology) that sepsis could very easily set in from one of these stump sores from prosthesis -- even when they are well-fitted. I have a friend who has gotten them on both her leg stumps and she said they are extremely painful and that she cannot put on her legs until they are better. If Zahra got those (chances are high she did) and was forced to keep putting on that leg, the sepsis could have set in and poisoned her whole system.

    It's my guess that her death was a combination of neglect and abuse (of course, neglect IS a form of abuse). I wonder how long it will be before we will find out the condition the remains are in --- if they show trauma pre-death or post-death, etc.
     
  9. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    I am betting that the COD was physical abuse and/or medical neglect. I found it very telling that LE had to get confirmation from Australia regarding Zahra's prosthetic. IMO that indicates she was never fitted or received one stateside. That in and of itself to me would constitute medical neglect. I hate to think she suffered long. I would rather think her death was mercifully quick. Unfortunately I do not think that will turn out to be the case.
     
  10. sunsetbeach

    sunsetbeach Active Member

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    I was asking about the black eye picture this morning and someone linked me to the info. Back in August when that was taken Zahra didn't look good. I wasn't just looking at the black eye but her appearance as a whole. Her face looked swollen. Could her cancer have come back and no one knew because she was never taken to a doctor? My Mom walked around for 2 years with Lung cancer and didn't know it until she got really sick and went in to the ER where they informed her of the Stage 4 cancer and gave her 6 months.
     
  11. epiphany

    epiphany Active Member

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    IMO, I believe the COD was a final and extremely violent physical beating that resulted in Zahra's immediate death. I do believe physical, psychological and emotional abuse and neglect had been ongoing and escalating since Z's arrival in the US. However, I'm thinking that COD was a final release of extreme rage, anger and physical violence upon Zahra in the form of a vicious, rage-fueled life-ending beating.
     
  12. tlcya

    tlcya Well-Known Member

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    I know that the cancer recurrence specuation has come up at several points in this case. I would give that idea more consideration if it weren't for the furniture store saleswoman who saw Zahra on September 25th (I believe don't really want to have to fetch link but I will). There was no mention of Zahra looking terribly ill or unwell. If I recall correctly, the woman actually spoke briefly with Zahra.
     
  13. Moonlit

    Moonlit New Member

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    This is the part that keeps stumping me too. IIRC the woman even stated how good Zahra looked when she saw her.

    I am in total agreement with Sunset about the August pic. She just looks so bad, not because of her eye, but in general. To me, she is almost unrecognizable as Zahra. I would think she was possibly ill with cancer again if not for the account of the furniture store woman.
     
  14. mck16

    mck16 New Member

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    As far as Zahra's appearance, didn't she attend school? Or was she home schooled? Wouldn't a teacher have noticed something if she did attend school.

    Also didn't one of the letters sent from jail by her stepmother say that she (stepmother) always wanted to be a vampire? Has there been any speculation that some kind of satanic ritual took place or maybe even took place on a regular basis? I know that is far out, but I also know it does happen. Just something I thought of last night. tia
     
  15. mistressammie

    mistressammie New Member

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    From the very beginning of this case, I suspected medical neglect. I think EB and AB were afraid of getting in trouble for not providing the kind of medical care Zahra needed and decided that disposing of her was the best idea. Of course, I feel drugs may have played a role as well.
     
  16. wenwe4

    wenwe4 Active Member

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    What we do know is that Zahra attended school through June (ish) 2010. She was attending school @ the time of the hearing aides video, because the school was involved with assisting her to obtain these (from what I remember). We know that CPS has been involved with the family previously (from what has been reported by family and friends - no confirmation from CPS).

    I believe AB & EB wanted CPS out of their lives, so they moved, told the previous school they were "homeschooling" and never enrolled her in any education program from their on. I think they probably moved - leaving no forwarding address (due to the bounced checks, CPS, and bill collectors on their tail). Because Zahra never showed up to school this school year in the fall, and the neighbors at the home said they never knew a child lived there, AB & EB were "motivated" to keep Zahra away from anyone who might report them to CPS for abuse or neglect.

    Certainly, if it hadn't been done before - someone would notice bruises, ill fitting leg, sores, sickly child, etc. It could be that Zahra wasn't let out at all except for the furniture store incident - just to avoid anyone who might look at a disabled child more closely.

    One more thought, children with disabilities are at a much higher risk of abuse and/or neglect.
     
  17. mck16

    mck16 New Member

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    Thank you for that info. If I could ask a couple more questions please/

    What is the timeline in Zahra's life? How old when she left Australia? How old when she had her bone cancer and all the treatments? When did her Dad marry stepmom? Thanks for your answer or any directions as to where I can get this information.
     
  18. Sneechwatcher

    Sneechwatcher New Member

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    Graphic theory -- based on the several strange places and things they looked at such as the woodchipper and the mattress and removing the drain in the kitchen sink (as seen in photos)
    IMO - she might have died of natural causes/neglect and maybe AB & EB in their neglectful parenting didn't notice that she had passed for a day or two -- since she supposedly stayed in her room so much maybe they failed to check on her. Then - when they discover what has happened they panic -- because how would they explain to police and the coroner why they hadn't called earlier. How would they explain a day or two old dead body in their house ?
    Pardon the graphic nature but there's no delicate way to say --- then maybe they dismembered her and put the limbs through the woodchipper and burried the torso and head.
    It's sick and twisted but it would make all the pieces of this puzzle come together.
    Then they came up with the ridiculous ramsom note .....and we all know how it went from there. The fire in the mulch pile could have been to get rid of clothes and bedding.
     
  19. Melanie

    Melanie Inactive

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    Oh, I'm so sorry sunset (big hugs). From my experience, the body shows signs when the inside isn't working correctly. Shortly before my mom passed I knew something was terribly wrong. Here I am crying in hysterics, and she's not listening to me (not one word Melanie you know I hate doctors). This was in September. By January she was gone from complications of untreated diabetes (with a level of 700). She was wasting away before my eyes, but just kept saying she wasn't hungry.

    So yes, I believe something similar could have been going on with Zahra when that photo was taken.

    MOO

    Mel
     
  20. Dejasade

    Dejasade New Member

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    This is what I was thinking too - the dismemberment part. I think that is why they were checking the drains...maybe they did it in the bathtub and they were looking for blood in the drains..
    ick.......I hate even thinking about it.
     
  21. DLT88

    DLT88 New Member

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    I tend to think so, too, Epiphany. I think Zahra was EB's punching bag on a daily basis. I think EB stormed into that room in rage whenever she felt it, and beat Zahra. As with most abuse cases, the violence gets worse and ends up in murder. I think it's very possible Zahra was also dying of cancer or sepsis, but I think it was a beating that ultimately killed her at the moment she died. Just my hunch.
     
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