Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

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I will check for links. I thought the salesclerk explained that she noticed Z and was sure it was her because she had noticed her odd gait and then noticed it was due to a prosthetic. She walked right past Z, even placing a hand on her shoulder.

I will search for link. Maybe that is ONE thing I will do right tonight.

Thank you for checking! I've heard variations of their account but if she did notice an "odd gait" that would answer some questions.
 
I have looked and the best I can find is the video of the actual employees speaking about it in their own words. It says nothing about her gait. I can only assume the odd gait was a WS assumption or bad reporting but I can find no sign of reference to Z's gait at this point in MSM.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6X0zxpMQvE[/ame]
 
The removal of the portions of wall and floor in her bedroom really suggest gory violence.

But I do wonder about vomit. I think it is technically possible for those same portions to be removed to test that. It would also show up under the presumptive tests, as far as I'm aware. It would be in the same general pattern if the bed weren't directly in contact with that wall (even out a few inches).

VERY GRAPHIC: I'm not sure that processes of decomp would take up such a tall and large area of wall.



The sinks and plumbing being removed is due to dismemberment of some sort -- or the washing up of blood. I'm 99.999% sure. Don't y'all think?
 
The removal of the portions of wall and floor in her bedroom really suggest gory violence.

But I do wonder about vomit. I think it is technically possible for those same portions to be removed to test that. It would also show up under the presumptive tests, as far as I'm aware. It would be in the same general pattern if the bed weren't directly in contact with that wall (even out a few inches).

VERY GRAPHIC: I'm not sure that processes of decomp would take up such a tall and large area of wall.



The sinks and plumbing being removed is due to dismemberment of some sort -- or the washing up of blood. I'm 99.999% sure. Don't y'all think?


I wouldn't go so far as to say I am 99.9999% sure but I cannot explain what was removed from the home with a death by illness, no violence involved. I think something made LE think there was phsyical evidecne to be had on those items.

Phsyical illness alone IMO would not leave evidence in those specific areas.

I am still leaning towards sick and violence being COD.

ETA I still think conscious medical neglect played a very important role though. I think once it got so bad, a very deliberate decision was made not to seek medical attention even when it became obvious it was needed. I only wish I knew for sure who all was involved in THAT, most despicable decision.
 
I think that poor child suffered her last day as she had never been made to suffer before and that breaks my heart for her.
 
I tend to think so, too, Epiphany. I think Zahra was EB's punching bag on a daily basis. I think EB stormed into that room in rage whenever she felt it, and beat Zahra. As with most abuse cases, the violence gets worse and ends up in murder. I think it's very possible Zahra was also dying of cancer or sepsis, but I think it was a beating that ultimately killed her at the moment she died. Just my hunch.

I agree with you completely. We see, far too often, cases like this where a child is abused by a parent, often a step-parent, on a regular basis until the adult "goes too far" and kills the child. I don't think they "mean" to kill the child, they just "forget" to control themselves.
I think EB was the person doing the actual physical abuse while AB stayed silent or followed her lead, because there apparently were no signs of abuse in Australia prior to EB stepping into the picture. But he allowed it to happen and they both knew there would be hell to pay if and when what happened to Zahra was discovered.
Basically, systematic abusers don't want to kill the child involved because there goes their punching bag. They want the kid around to vent their frustrations on or to play their sadistic games with. But it's usually only a matter of time before such a volatile situation ends in irreversible damage.
That's what the the signs in this case tell me happened with Zahra.
I don't believe this was a case of medical neglect due to the sighting of Zahra in the furniture store around 9-25-10, when she was not seen to appear ill at all. Unless it was something rapid, I doubt she died of medical neglect, except the kind that happens after a kid is beaten half to death and no one seeks help.
 
I agree with you completely. We see, far too often, cases like this where a child is abused by a parent, often a step-parent, on a regular basis until the adult "goes too far" and kills the child. I don't think they "mean" to kill the child, they just "forget" to control themselves.
I think EB was the person doing the actual physical abuse while AB stayed silent or followed her lead, because there apparently were no signs of abuse in Australia prior to EB stepping into the picture. But he allowed it to happen and they both knew there would be hell to pay if and when what happened to Zahra was discovered.
Basically, systematic abusers don't want to kill the child involved because there goes their punching bag. They want the kid around to vent their frustrations on or to play their sadistic games with. But it's usually only a matter of time before such a volatile situation ends in irreversible damage.
That's what the the signs in this case tell me happened with Zahra.
I don't believe this was a case of medical neglect due to the sighting of Zahra in the furniture store around 9-25-10, when she was not seen to appear ill at all. Unless it was something rapid, I doubt she died of medical neglect, except the kind that happens after a kid is beaten half to death and no one seeks help.

BBM
I completely agree with this Gitana and right now I'm thinking Zahra may have had extensive internal injuries that perhaps caused some kind of internal bleeding or hemorraghing. God rest her soul!
 
Kind of O/T

Was there ever a thread for discussion of the ransom note? I've looked through everything in this forum, and I can't find a discussion just for that.

ETA: Nevermind, I found it. :)
 
One thing to remember is that young children have not learned psychological pain they experience real pain. For children that have grown up only knowing pain from my experience there pain tolerance levels are much higher.

I know Zahra's prosthetic was way to small. I also do know that if i would ask my daughter if anything was wrong when she was in pain she would say no. If i asked on a scale of 1 - 10 i would be lucky to get a 3 in the pain category. A levell 3 of pain to her would be excruciating to myself.

I often saw this first hand with so many children and was thankful when a nurse/doctor would look at me and ask what my thoughts were as i knew from her being cranky etc that the pain level was unbearable. Another way we found my daughter dealt with her pain was to fall asleep, odd as it may seem.

I have a feeling that this young lady experienced pain on a daily basis in fact i know it whether it be from cancer, abuse, a ill fitting prosthetic and around health care professionals there was always a smile for them as she knew they were there to help her much as it was with my daughter

I have a feeling that Zahra's way was to smile through that pain the best she could, so much like many other children MOO
 
This is why I would be interested in the observations of those who say they saw Zahra in the furniture store on 9/25. IIRC, they said they noticed her prosthetic leg. Why? Was it because Zahra was wearing something (such as shorts) that made it obvious, or was she walking in a manner that drew attention to it? Also, what about her demeanor when she finished the school year this past spring? Was it difficult for her to walk? Did she seem to be in pain? :waitasec: I also agree that having survived cancer, twice, she may have developed a resiliency to pain and camouflaged it well. MOO

I thought the woman "Pat" saw her, walked by her and touched her shoulder (so she didn't startle her, said 'excuse me') but another employe noticed the prosthesis - she was wearing "tights" probably didn't go to the tops of her shoes and the skin tone was different.

When EB was ready to leave - she called Zahra speaking her name.
 
I have looked and the best I can find is the video of the actual employees speaking about it in their own words. It says nothing about her gait. I can only assume the odd gait was a WS assumption or bad reporting but I can find no sign of reference to Z's gait at this point in MSM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6X0zxpMQvE

We were discussing this early on, that if the prosthesis had not been refit in the time they were in the US, Zahra's gait would be off - the photo of Z in the front yard of the trailer from this summer - it appears one shoulder and one hip are off. It could also have been the yard was not even -

Has it been confirmed that she had received no medical care or are we still just assuming?
 
we are still just speculating at this point. We know for a fact that the prosthetic had to be identified and WAS identified by using serial numbers and info obtained from Australia. So we feel pretty safe in assuming the prostethic is the same one she travelled here from Oz with.

We know that she was given her hearing aids at a large charity event at a racetrack here is the US thanks to intervention from teachers, who had concerns about her hearing impairment interferring with her education.

We have no confirmation that Zahra was never seen for medical treatment here in the US but it seems a safe assumption at this point based on the facts we do have.
 
We were discussing this early on, that if the prosthesis had not been refit in the time they were in the US, Zahra's gait would be off - the photo of Z in the front yard of the trailer from this summer - it appears one shoulder and one hip are off. It could also have been the yard was not even -

Has it been confirmed that she had received no medical care or are we still just assuming?

JMO The only medical care Ive seen confermed since she came to the US is the hearing aides. With HIPPA laws though ZIm not sure we will ever know for sure. Im no expert by any means and am not sure if since shes been confermed deceased if that would release those boundries. Im hoping someone else can answer that.
 
When I try to think logically about the information and evidence we've been given, my thoughts go to the possibility that Zahra died/was murdered when she was up and awake and her prosthetic was in place.

Looking at the photos of the home where evidence was removed, that leads me to believe that she may have been struck in her bedroom, on or near her bed. Sometimes it just takes one blow, aimed at just the right spot, to kill a person. And of course if something is being used to strike someone, well the odds increase considerably. Multiple blows would have the same disastrous effect.

So if she was home alone with EB and they were fighting, or EB was "punishing her" for something, I would think that the place she would flee to get away from the violence/rage/anger is her bedroom. And with someone angry and in a rage chasing her in there...who knows. Especially if Zahra dared to run away from a "punishment".

The reason I think she was wearing the prosthetic is because it was disposed of along with her remains. And the location where at least a portion of it was found, the gel liner, also gave up a large bone belonging to Zahra. If the prosthetic was in place at the time of her death and someone had tried to remove it after the fact, would that gel liner stay in place? Would it be more difficult, perhaps with bloating, to remove? Do the prosthetics basically come in separate pieces? Perhaps Allusonz can weigh in on that.

I'm beginning to think that the piece of evidence that EB's lawyers turned over to police might have been the rest of the prosthetic which was disposed of in the third location (possibly Indian Grave Rd) and that LE only actually found the liner at the Christy Rd site. If that leg had been dismembered, then the bone that was found was likely the femur...probably displaced by animals.

As always JMHO and please shoot the holes in this theory because it's just too awful to comtemplate. I much prefer the died of natural causes peacefully in her sleep version.
 
When I try to think logically about the information and evidence we've been given, my thoughts go to the possibility that Zahra died/was murdered when she was up and awake and her prosthetic was in place.

Looking at the photos of the home where evidence was removed, that leads me to believe that she may have been struck in her bedroom, on or near her bed. Sometimes it just takes one blow, aimed at just the right spot, to kill a person. And of course if something is being used to strike someone, well the odds increase considerably. Multiple blows would have the same disastrous effect.

So if she was home alone with EB and they were fighting, or EB was "punishing her" for something, I would think that the place she would flee to get away from the violence/rage/anger is her bedroom. And with someone angry and in a rage chasing her in there...who knows. Especially if Zahra dared to run away from a "punishment".

The reason I think she was wearing the prosthetic is because it was disposed of along with her remains. And the location where at least a portion of it was found, the gel liner, also gave up a large bone belonging to Zahra. If the prosthetic was in place at the time of her death and someone had tried to remove it after the fact, would that gel liner stay in place? Would it be more difficult, perhaps with bloating, to remove? Do the prosthetics basically come in separate pieces? Perhaps Allusonz can weigh in on that.

I'm beginning to think that the piece of evidence that EB's lawyers turned over to police might have been the rest of the prosthetic which was disposed of in the third location (possibly Indian Grave Rd) and that LE only actually found the liner at the Christy Rd site. If that leg had been dismembered, then the bone that was found was likely the femur...probably displaced by animals.

As always JMHO and please shoot the holes in this theory because it's just too awful to comtemplate. I much prefer the died of natural causes peacefully in her sleep version.

ITA, Kamille. Although, I'm not inclined to think that Zahra ran to her room to get away from the beating. If we are to believe BB, and I do, it was typical for EB to go into Zahra's room to beat her.

I'm also not convinced that this beating occurred while AB was out of the home. It may have , but it could very well also have occured while he was home. Again, if we are to believe BB, it was not uncommon for AB to stand by and do nothing when EB was beating this child.

JMO
 
The Indian Graves site still disturbs me and I think you may be right about EB being responsible for the search there. I had not thought of the possibility that the evidence Dubbs "retrieved" coming from there.

ETA I have just checked the PDF and it is not specified where evidence was "retreived" from so you may very well be right. This would explain that search area and why LE went there.
 
The Indian Graves site still disturbs me and I think you may be right about EB being responsible for the search there. I had not thought of the possibility that the evidence Dubbs "retrieved" coming from there.

ETA I have just checked the PDF and it is not specified where evidence was "retreived" from so you may very well be right. This would explain that search area and why LE went there.

Do we know if EB accompanied LE to the Phillip Lane address?
 
We know from MSM that LE did search an undisclosed residence that was not the 21st street one at some point. They declined to specify or confirm the address or their reason for searching it. This link states EB was present but did not leave the vehicle. I am thinking this one was the former Burns address maybe?

found link http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=Za...9&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=e1807761,88d679cf had to seach cached pages

snipped

Investigators went to a former residence of Elisa's Monday, but sources told WBTV that she never left the police SUV she was transported in. Police said they had searched at least two places Monday.
 
We know from MSM that LE did search an undisclosed residence that was not the 21st street one at some point. They declined to specify or confirm the address or their reason for searching it. This link states EB was present but did not leave the vehicle. I am thinking this one was the former Burns address maybe?

found link http://cc.bingj.com/cache.aspx?q=Za...9&mkt=en-US&setlang=en-US&w=e1807761,88d679cf had to seach cached pages

snipped

Investigators went to a former residence of Elisa's Monday, but sources told WBTV that she never left the police SUV she was transported in. Police said they had searched at least two places Monday.

There was a MSM video interview of the neighbour at the Burns Rd address, the other trailer at 4920 Burns, and she said that EB had not come to that location that she was aware of. I know I'll never be able to find the link but I did see it.

A lot of neighbours at Phillip La have been outspken in the media and they have not mentioned her going there with LE either that I'm aware of.

I think the media just got that wrong and it was the Dudley Shoals site that they were referring to. Not a former "residence" per say but in the area of a former residence. We have seen footage of that.

MOO
 
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