Cause of Death and Time of Death *MERGED* (Warning: Contains Graphic Content!)

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Juno

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I'm still sticking with my theory in light of recent documents (search warrants). IMO Zahra was raped by these men (arranged by EB for drugs or possible cash...remember the supposed $10,000...maybe it was taped, photographed or on webcam). This rape caused internal injuries to Zahra, hence the blood on her legs. EB took her home and explained her staying in bed as a stomach ache ( didn't AB or someone say she had been sick with a stomach ache?). The child then died from those injuries. EB tells AB that they can't report the death because of all the abuse allegations, they would never be believed that she died from a "virus". So, they dismember her and spread her body all over the place. They report it as a kidnapping thinking that Zahra will just be another statistic after a little while. Another missing child that has never been found. EB did say something in one of her letters about there being so many "missing" kids. She also says she wonders if it would have been different if Zahra hadn't been from AU and a cancer survivor. Makes me think that she believes that maybe LE and the public wouldn't have been SO concerned if she was just any "ordinary" kid that had gone "missing". There are NO ordinary kids...they are all extraordinary in their own ways!

I know its all disgusting but this is the direction my gut has led me in from the very beginning. Just my theory but I can't shake it!!

Excellent post McMomma! I too believe they thought she would just be another missing child and that no one would search as much nor care as much as they did for this extraordinary girl.
 

NcMomma

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Sorry about the "violent comment" Ducky! I just can't help being sooo angry right now! I will just go scream those thoughts out my front door! Probably scare the crud out of my neighbors but thats Ok.
 

Clue Hopper

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Reading what EB told LE through LD, does not add up to what LE has informed us about the remains or the prosthetic. At the time (not saying she even knows now) I am thinking she didn't know about the tip with SY and JY. I am wondering if she was trying to place blame on AB and clear herself, SY and JY of any wrong doing. I think she is going to extreme extents to cover up this (alleged) sexual assault from AB. I think it is because she knows for her "safety" he would need to be behind bars if he found out.

The reason I do not think AB had any involvement at all is because the HPD Chief is very emotional about this case. It has rocked him among others to the core. I think if there were even a slightest indication that AB was involved he too would be sitting in a cell right now. I think he was able to account for his time not only via the boss and others, but GPS locations from his cell phone. JMO though.

I do think EB had help with the dismemberment and hiding of it. I think it came from someone else involved. Maybe that is where the "done something very bad and needed to leave town" came from. It's all JMO, but to me it fits.
 

WhyaDuck?

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Sorry about the "violent comment" Ducky! I just can't help being sooo angry right now! I will just go scream those thoughts out my front door! Probably scare the crud out of my neighbors but thats Ok.

No problem. I quite understand.
 

believe09

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I have a hard time with the drug sale theory only because this woman could get 10K out of a stranger no problem. She appears to be a grifter-so why the need to trade her step child at all knowing that the jig would be up unless the child died? And was dismembered so that COD would have been hidden?

DYS was looking for them. Zahra was old enough to tell the tale of her abuse and had some sense of worth-she made friends. She sparkled. She would have told.

I think it is a far simpler story-the chit was hitting the fan for EB and possibly AB. So they killed her and carted her around until they could figure out what else to do with her.
 

drivinmebonkers

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Reading what EB told LE through LD, does not add up to what LE has informed us about the remains or the prosthetic. At the time (not saying she even knows now) I am thinking she didn't know about the tip with SY and JY. I am wondering if she was trying to place blame on AB and clear herself, SY and JY of any wrong doing. I think she is going to extreme extents to cover up this (alleged) sexual assault from AB. I think it is because she knows for her "safety" he would need to be behind bars if he found out.

The reason I do not think AB had any involvement at all is because the HPD Chief is very emotional about this case. It has rocked him among others to the core. I think if there were even a slightest indication that AB was involved he too would be sitting in a cell right now. I think he was able to account for his time not only via the boss and others, but GPS locations from his cell phone. JMO though.

I do think EB had help with the dismemberment and hiding of it. I think it came from someone else involved. Maybe that is where the "done something very bad and needed to leave town" came from. It's all JMO, but to me it fits.

You have to remember the only reason EB is in a cell right now is because she admitted to the ransom note, If she hadn't she wouldn't be in jail right now either. Neither have been charged with the Murder of Zahra! They could of dismembered her at night (when he wasn't working) and disposed of her AT night (when he wasn't working) and that could explain that theory, we don't know whether it was night or day when they dismembered or disposed. So he very well could of been involved in this. JMO
 

SherlockHomey

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As I said once before in another thread, 'developments change things' and so with that in mind
I think it is time to revisit my theory on the cause of death.

IF the stories told in the warrants turn out to true it appears possible that Zahra
may have died from a blow to the head given by one of at least two men that are alleged
to have raped Zahra.

It may possibly have happened along these lines:
Use/abuse of Zahra by the two men was traded for drugs for one or more of the parents use.
But in the course of the rape/abuse Zahra was hit on the head and perhaps injured
badly enough to later die at home.

The parents can't exactly let Zahra be examined by a doctor who would realize rape/abuse
had happened and Zahra might tell what happened if she lived or DNA might point
to the two men who might in turn tell about the deal they made to get to use Zahra
and so they kept her at home and she died.

Again the parents cannot just call 911 and say Zahra died because the body would
tell a story of rape and abuse and the DNA inside Zahra and other evidence likely
would have led to the uncovering of the identity of the two men who raped & hit
Zahra (the men had records-don't know if their DNA would have been on file but possible)
and that in turn would lead to the two men telling of the deal made for them to get
to use/abuse Zahra and that might get Adam and Elisa charged along with the two men.
(I haven't read the legal thread yet but I have heard that if someone is killed when you
participate in a felony you can be charged equally even if you did not hit or shoot
the victim yourself.)

Pressured by LE confronting Elisa with the fact that she failed the poly,Elisa
begins to spill the details of the body dismemberment and the disposal locations.
I can only guess that she felt that she was safe enough in releasing that info to LE
since her and Adam 'really didn't kill Zahra' and more importantly with the flesh gone the
DNA evidence that might have led to the two men would be gone as well.
As long as nothing proved Adam or Elisa actually murdered Zahra, Elisa may have felt
the investigation would eventually stall there and go no further.
Or perhaps Elisa felt there would reasonable doubt at trial due to that same lack of evidence.

Still, until we have the word from LE that this is also their theory I have to keep in mind that
Elisa failed the 3 main questions in that poly and that could mean very simply that she killed Zahra
and her and Adam disposed of the body. The two man rape thing may turn out
to not be involved in her death. She may have survived that abuse only to later have been
murdered at home by Elisa in one of her fits of rage.

I'm with this too and the "what he did after was horrifying". I wonder if the "he" means one of the men in the alleged rape and not AB.
 

SherlockHomey

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I don't know where to post this but in the one search warrant it states that EB and AB went to Octoberfest on Friday Oct 8th between 7 and 9 pm. It then states that when they got home, "Zahra went to bed". I thought AB hadn't seen her that night. Did she go with them to Octoberfest? And how could AB not have seen her on Friday if they went home and she went to bed?
 

Clue Hopper

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I don't know where to post this but in the one search warrant it states that EB and AB went to Octoberfest on Friday Oct 8th between 7 and 9 pm. It then states that when they got home, "Zahra went to bed". I thought AB hadn't seen her that night. Did she go with them to Octoberfest? And how could AB not have seen her on Friday if they went home and she went to bed?

That was EB's statement to LE. When first asked after the 911 call.
 

Mountain_Kat

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I think it's important to remember that much of what we find in these search warrants is based on things LE was told during the course of their investigation. It doesn't neccesarily mean everything is true, just that LE was told this or that and they investigated.

I've heard many posters state that Zahra was raped by 2 men, as though that were an established fact. It isn't. It's a 4th hand tip investigators recieved and followed up on. There may have been some validity to this tip, or there might not. Until we find out more information with respect to LE's investigation of this tip, we should take it all with a huge grain of salt, imo.

People lie...especially people who have alot to lose by telling the truth. The only way to tell what is the truth and what is a lie, is to investigate the validity of what has been said. And that's exactly what we are looking at with respect to these search warrants...investigation.

MOO, and all that.
 

Allusonz

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EB is a master manipulator, street savvy, and tells so many untruths that I believe that LE was led on many wild goose chases. LE had to basically work on the assumption of collect everything, leave no stone untouched. LE was forced to either rule out or substantiate in order to bring justice to Zahra
Many of the items have me puzzled that they collected on the search warrants I have seen

What puzzles me more is what is not listed on the items seized the one that pops out to me is the prosthesis

That would be like taking the insulin away from a diabetic MOO
 

Clue Hopper

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I have a few questions bugging me, We know from the 911 call that Z didn't have her hearing aides. Why on earth would they be found in a velvet bag in EB's jewelry box? Wouldn't they have been in Z's room? Did she frequently not wear them? Was she not allowed to wear them? Were there more than one set? That part of the evidence has me puzzled a bit.
 

wenwe4

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I have a few questions bugging me, We know from the 911 call that Z didn't have her hearing aides. Why on earth would they be found in a velvet bag in EB's jewelry box? Wouldn't they have been in Z's room? Did she frequently not wear them? Was she not allowed to wear them? Were there more than one set? That part of the evidence has me puzzled a bit.

Last night on NG a guest was asked this same question. The guest responded that this was yet another way EB could keep Zahra disoriented.

I am wondering about the inconsistencies with where things happened and/or were dumped vs. where they were found.

1) Zahra was to have been raped at a "block home" in some other town (name escapes me at this minute) - then how did she get home? Better yet, how did she get to the block home and without appropriate supervision?
2) EB claims to have placed the mattress and box springs in a dumpster - that must have been a huge dumpster and why didn't anyone notice if there was a significant amount of blood on it?
3) EB says AB wrapped the prosthesis up in a white plastic bag and threw it out at a dumpster - how did it end up where it was found?
4) EB says remains dumped at another dumpster - but found on Dudley Shoals rd?
 

passionflower

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Now, after learning about the rape from 2 subhuman men and a kick to the head.
I am thinking that EB was sick of Zahra crying and sick, beat her with Zahra's leg.
AB just didn't want to know anything and ignored everything.
AB knew what had happened. AB knew Zahra had no hearing aids.
AB knew everything and just went on with his everyday life.
Zahra died of no medical treatment and neglect, IMO.........a horrible painful death.
All 4 animals and anyone else that knew about this and didn't get Zahra help,
IMO is responsible for Zahra's death in 1 way or another.
I hope none of these people can ever have a day without guilt, never have a peaceful life or sleep ever again.........These low life's don't deserve to even breathe our air!
How many more guys did EB/AB let have their kicks with little Zahra?
God Bless all LE that have to even be in the same area as these idiots.
the only reason I think they aren't arrested yet for murder is LE might think there are
more involved???
 

Clue Hopper

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Last night on NG a guest was asked this same question. The guest responded that this was yet another way EB could keep Zahra disoriented.

I am wondering about the inconsistencies with where things happened and/or were dumped vs. where they were found.

1) Zahra was to have been raped at a "block home" in some other town (name escapes me at this minute) - then how did she get home? Better yet, how did she get to the block home and without appropriate supervision?
2) EB claims to have placed the mattress and box springs in a dumpster - that must have been a huge dumpster and why didn't anyone notice if there was a significant amount of blood on it?
3) EB says AB wrapped the prosthesis up in a white plastic bag and threw it out at a dumpster - how did it end up where it was found?
4) EB says remains dumped at another dumpster - but found on Dudley Shoals rd?

Thank you for the hearing aide answer. It's what I thought, but didn't want too.

For 2-4 My own opinion is what we are seeing from EB is early on in the case. I do not think she was cooperating as well as LD led out for her to be. I am thinking and mind you this is just a theory not fact. That someone else involved decided to tell the truth, and upon them re-questioning EB about their new tips, her lawyers advised her if they were true she needed to be cooperating fully. That is why she was brought to the locations. Her original story of the dumpsters wouldn't work with the new information. All just speculation there.
 

passionflower

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Last night on NG a guest was asked this same question. The guest responded that this was yet another way EB could keep Zahra disoriented.

I am wondering about the inconsistencies with where things happened and/or were dumped vs. where they were found.

1) Zahra was to have been raped at a "block home" in some other town (name escapes me at this minute) - then how did she get home? Better yet, how did she get to the block home and without appropriate supervision?
2) EB claims to have placed the mattress and box springs in a dumpster - that must have been a huge dumpster and why didn't anyone notice if there was a significant amount of blood on it?
3) EB says AB wrapped the prosthesis up in a white plastic bag and threw it out at a dumpster - how did it end up where it was found?
4) EB says remains dumped at another dumpster - but found on Dudley Shoals rd?
also
Zahra's body? or larger piece was found in a buried hole...........
on LEVI show, lady said all the ME has is a leg bone, then said NO TISSUE AT ALL.
Can't tell if Zahra was raped.............
all bone and no tissue in such a short time? even with buried piece???

IIRC EB drove Zahra to the creeps who raped her......dropped her off and picked her up.............no link, just think I heard it on radio. Maybe Levi's????
 

Linda7NJ

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Last night on NG a guest was asked this same question. The guest responded that this was yet another way EB could keep Zahra disoriented.

I am wondering about the inconsistencies with where things happened and/or were dumped vs. where they were found.

1) Zahra was to have been raped at a "block home" in some other town (name escapes me at this minute) - then how did she get home? Better yet, how did she get to the block home and without appropriate supervision?
2) EB claims to have placed the mattress and box springs in a dumpster - that must have been a huge dumpster and why didn't anyone notice if there was a significant amount of blood on it?
3) EB says AB wrapped the prosthesis up in a white plastic bag and threw it out at a dumpster - how did it end up where it was found?
4) EB says remains dumped at another dumpster - but found on Dudley Shoals rd?

I think they only found the liner along that road. Not the entire prosthesis.
 

Linda7NJ

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Zahra's body? or larger piece was found in a buried hole...........
on LEVI show, lady said all the ME has is a leg bone, then said NO TISSUE AT ALL.
Can't tell if Zahra was raped.............
all bone and no tissue in such a short time? even with buried piece???

IIRC EB drove Zahra to the creeps who raped her......dropped her off and picked her up.............no link, just think I heard it on radio. Maybe Levi's????


Right now, I am not buying into the rape by two men.

I said from the onset, they disposed of this child and created a fake kidnapping complete with ransom note and diversion fire to HIDE something HUGE like sexual abuse.

If she was sexually assaulted, my money is still on her father and EB. I will always believe that she was, by the two of THEM. However, I highly doubt that part will ever come up or be proved.
 

Allusonz

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The gel liner was found. That is completely different from the prosthesis.

Gel liners are use to compensate for weight gain/loss in the socket of the prosthesis

The prosthesis would consist of the socket, titanium parts, knee joint and foot in my opinion

Hope this helps
 

passionflower

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respecctfully snipped from LINDA7NJ

If she was sexually assaulted, my money is still on her father and EB. I will always believe that she was, by the two of THEM. However, I highly doubt that part will ever come up or be proved.

ITA with this.............
but if they needed a favor or money or drugs..........I'll bet they sold Zahra out for sex also.
 
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