Caylee's Bruises

[Ripley007]

The hairdresser must of felt something was odd about the boo boo to take a cell phone photo. IMO, you usually ask a child that age..."gee honey what happened?" Who knows what Caylee said to the hairdresser.

Maybe it wasn't just the bruise itself that raised a red flag with the hairdresser. Maybe the combo of that plus the interaction she noted between mother and child?

 

[MaraSleuth]

toddler bruises as my pediatrician calls them, are most commonly found on shins. They are small curcular shaped "dings". I have managed to raise 4 toddlers so far, and every last one gets this type of bruise. Forehead bruises are also common,and those usually swell up pretty badly. Toddlers are busy bees and they often times are too caught up in their own activity to notice surroundings. My 2 1/2 yr old turned his head into the bathroom vanity just this morning. I'm in NO way defending the A family, esp. Casey, just trying to shed some light on the common look of bumps and bonks in toddlerhood.

I have to agree with this. MY 3 yr old is banged up regularly - he runs into things all of the time. Tonight he walked into the dining room table - he has a big ole bruise under his eye. I'd die if someone thought I hurt him.

 

[MaraSleuth]

The hairdresser must of felt something was odd about the boo boo to take a cell phone photo. IMO, you usually ask a child that age..."gee honey what happened?" Who knows what Caylee said to the hairdresser.

Oh! I didn't realize it was the hairdresser who took the photo!!! Yes - there would be a good reason for her to take the pic.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

toddler bruises as my pediatrician calls them, are most commonly found on shins. They are small curcular shaped "dings". I have managed to raise 4 toddlers so far, and every last one gets this type of bruise. Forehead bruises are also common,and those usually swell up pretty badly. Toddlers are busy bees and they often times are too caught up in their own activity to notice surroundings. My 2 1/2 yr old turned his head into the bathroom vanity just this morning. I'm in NO way defending the A family, esp. Casey, just trying to shed some light on the common look of bumps and bonks in toddlerhood.

I would have to agree with this as a mother of three children under five, and I can assure you, I believe KC is guilty as the day is long. I just knew I was going to be in prison before my son got into school. If there was a head injury to be had, this kid would be the one to do it. Sometimes it was several days in a row. I started to worry he was going to be permanently damaged from it all. And just today, my 20 month old daughter...who I would carry around on a cotton ball if I could...fell in the kitchen and hit her chin on an oak kitchen chair. Five hours at the ER, 6 stitches and 2 nervous breakdowns later she was up running around and playing with her brothers while I chased her around trying to stop her from opening it back up. You would think I was the only one traumatized today. I really don't think that she spent a lot of time with Caylee. Seems to me that Cindy and George had her so much that she probably didn't get much chance to really hurt her. At least that's what I hope. I could load up a bunch of my kids pics in a photobucket and I bet with the observant eyes here, you guys could have me in jail by noon tomorrow.

 

[MD MOMMY]

I agree with the posters above. I have 2 toddlers and they are FOREVER hurting themselves..bumps, bruises, cuts, you name it. Her pedi always tells me there are places bruises should be and places they should not be.

To the poster talking about the red cheek infant picture. Infant acne is really common and so are blocked tear ducts which could explain the marks. I'm not defending anyone and it could be abuse..just pointing out other possibilities.

 

[trafficsUP66]

I agree with the posters above. I have 2 toddlers and they are FOREVER hurting themselves..bumps, bruises, cuts, you name it. Her pedi always tells me there are places bruises should be and places they should not be.

To the poster talking about the red cheek infant picture. Infant acne is really common and so are blocked tear ducts which could explain the marks. I'm not defending anyone and it could be abuse..just pointing out other possibilities.

Hi MD MOMMY,

There was a pic with the infant acne shown also--but the one with the red cheek--entire side flaming! Just the one side....appeared to me the size of a small woman's hand. I just believe she was regularly abusing Caylee when no one was around to observe. And, she probably used some of the same above excuses over & over. CA seems to have believed everything Casey told her OR she was in denial.

But boy do I very much relate with toddler injury issues--I raised a hyperactive child who had to RUN every where he went and almost daily BAM right into a counter, a chair, the table.....one thing I will never forget--he comes in from outside, 4 years old at the time, holding onto his crotch with both hands jumping up and down-I say--"go ahead, go potty then" He remains in front of me, yelping cuz he can't speak and I realize suddenly there's something in his PANTS!
I put him to the floor, of course he doesn't want me to unbutton or un-zip but I've got to.....I pull off his pants and underwear and out flies about TEN HORNETS!
The poor kid was bitten from his privates all up and down his legs. He was still screeching but relieved mommy got them out! Right about then tho, I thought I was going to faint! I called 911 by this time I'm as he was when he came into the house--blubbering! I was scared to death he was allergic.

He wasn't, thank God.

But I have to say, with all his speeding around and rough play--he never got a black eye or had bruises on a constant basis--just the common bumps and scrapes, particularly on his knees and shins. He could whack his head against a counter and keep on running, sporting a teeny red mark on his forehead that would disappear within the day.

IMO, Caylee's abuse was a prelude to her murder. When I see her anger in that video with her parents it seems way out of proportion to the situation at hand. Can't imagine a 2 1/2 year old not readily appeasing such a mommy? I have seen many pictures, too many in which she seems apprehensive, probably not knowing from one moment to next what might set her mother off. In one of the videos, she grabs the crayon box as tho she's contemplating dumping the crayons out onto the floor. At her age, she thinks better of it and instead, turns her back to the camera and goes on coloring.
My boy--he would've dumped them over if I wasn't paying him his undivided attention!
But the difference I suppose is that he felt SAFE to do so!
Caylee did not, imo!

 

[Ripley007]

Hi MD MOMMY,

There was a pic with the infant acne shown also--but the one with the red cheek--entire side flaming! Just the one side....appeared to me the size of a small woman's hand. I just believe she was regularly abusing Caylee when no one was around to observe. And, she probably used some of the same above excuses over & over. CA seems to have believed everything Casey told her OR she was in denial.

But boy do I very much relate with toddler injury issues--I raised a hyperactive child who had to RUN every where he went and almost daily BAM right into a counter, a chair, the table.....one thing I will never forget--he comes in from outside, 4 years old at the time, holding onto his crotch with both hands jumping up and down-I say--"go ahead, go potty then" He remains in front of me, yelping cuz he can't speak and I realize suddenly there's something in his PANTS!
I put him to the floor, of course he doesn't want me to unbutton or un-zip but I've got to.....I pull off his pants and underwear and out flies about TEN HORNETS!
The poor kid was bitten from his privates all up and down his legs. He was still screeching but relieved mommy got them out! Right about then tho, I thought I was going to faint! I called 911 by this time I'm as he was when he came into the house--blubbering! I was scared to death he was allergic.

He wasn't, thank God.

But I have to say, with all his speeding around and rough play--he never got a black eye or had bruises on a constant basis--just the common bumps and scrapes, particularly on his knees and shins. He could whack his head against a counter and keep on running, sporting a teeny red mark on his forehead that would disappear within the day.

IMO, Caylee's abuse was a prelude to her murder. When I see her anger in that video with her parents it seems way out of proportion to the situation at hand. Can't imagine a 2 1/2 year old not readily appeasing such a mommy? I have seen many pictures, too many in which she seems apprehensive, probably not knowing from one moment to next what might set her mother off. In one of the videos, she grabs the crayon box as tho she's contemplating dumping the crayons out onto the floor. At her age, she thinks better of it and instead, turns her back to the camera and goes on coloring.
My boy--he would've dumped them over if I wasn't paying him his undivided attention!
But the difference I suppose is that he felt SAFE to do so!
Caylee did not, imo!

Thank you for your post! I needed a good laugh. Just glad my mouth wasn't full of Diet Pepsi when I read it! You know, you can keep the boy in line by threatening to tell his future girlfriends this story!!!

Re: Bruises and marks. I just never made much of them. Some red marks could be from recently sleeping on a lump or whatever. Know what I mean? And bruises, well, me and my kids have pale skin that bruises in heavy wind! I'm sure I've got lots of photos when they were young that captured a bruise or red mark that was completely innocent, so I hate to judge.

I go with the posters who've educated us all about bruises in the "wrong" areas of the body.

And re: the comment about your son feeling "safe" to misbehave, ITA. I haven't seen all the videos spoke of on this thread about Caylee looking scared or apprehinsive, but enough of you have and gotten an uneasy feeling from them so I trust your judgement.

 

[mimimama5]

Ok, so a little o/t but also on topic. Both my youngest boys have a clotting factor issue, meaning that they do not clot very at all. We discovered this when the now 2 1/2 yr old was 6 weeks old. I went out to the store and came back home to find my newborns FACE covered in bruises. I immediately did what all good mama's would do...threw my poor husband out of the house, called him every name in the book, and ordered him to not come within a mile of my child until I found out what had happened. Step 2 in my maniac state was to call the pediatrician and get my boy in immediately. I didn't stop to think that I could have potentially jailed my husband ( who sidenote is the single gentlest man I have ever met, he's never once raised his voice to me nevermind his hands) , my babe was hurt. So long story short, the pediatrician informed me that at that young age bruises usually formed in 6-12 hours of the incident, not the one hour that I had left my poor befuddled husband in charge. We ran lab tests and discovered that my son has Von Willibrand's, which we never would have known, and it was the carseat straps that had bruised his little face. I of course appologized profusely to the hubs, but being the gem that he is he understood that I was just mama lion defending her baby, he would have done the same thing had the tables been turned....so the whole point to this saga is that it may be possible that Caylee had a clotting factor issue as well, I think the stats on that are 1 out of every 100 people are missing a part of the series of factors and most don't realize it ever. She could be an east bruiser like our boys. I just have a hard time imagining casey being able to have enough control to never leave marks that CA or GA would question... as always this is my opinion take it for what its worth :twocents: LOL.

 

[LambChop]

Mimimama5. My grandchildren also have Van Willibrand's. Very rare, only about 3% of the population have it according to their doctor. Turns out it came down from my side of the family. The oldest granddaughter bruised very easily and the doctor checked her blood figuring it would come back negative but it was positive. Apparently the grandparent's never questioned KC on anything, stealing, the fact that she was pregnant, her lies, so the bruising was probably explained away by KC. Maybe the hairdresser could make out a hand mark or brusing from grabbing fingers. When I was younger I always had bruises and NO ONE ever hit me. My grandmother would just say you bruise easy just like me. We never knew it was associated with a blood disorder. It is very hard to believe that KC would kill her child, leave her in the manner she did and it was the first time she ever hurt this child. It just does not add up.

 

[EgyptNug]

There are certain locations on the body that tend to point towards abuse. These are not the usual areas that children get bumps and bruises. Common sites for NON-accidental injuries include the stomach, back, inner arms, chest, upper arms, ears, cheeks... it is not to say that an injury to the cheek for example could not be caused by an accident, it is just much less likley than the knees for example. Physicians and emergency hospital staff should be trained to detect an injury that appears suspicious.

I agree. When mine was a toddler, he'd routinely have little round bruises along his shin bones from crashing into stuff. From ages 1-3 he had a couple eggs on his forehead from falling or running into edges at different times. If the child bruises easily, I've seen a small light fingertip mark on a kid's bicep from an adult grabbing them before they ran in front of a car. I think all that stuff is routine. But a bruise on a soft part of the body is not routine, and should have an explanation associated with it.

All that being said, there are just too many pictures of Caylee, of almost any day in her life, in shorts and tanks or bathing suits, for there to be true physical abuse, in my opinion. But that doesn't mean Casey didn't hold her down tightly, or smack her. And I'd bet Casey DID intimidate Caylee when she wasn't neglecting her, when they were not in front of an audience. THat's how narcississists (sp) usually parent. But I don't think she was bruising her with the abuse, I think any bruising would be normal toddler bruises.

I did not see the hairdresser photo, but I do remember RM saying the eye bruise was from his coffee table.

 

[Friday]

Thank you for your post! I needed a good laugh. Just glad my mouth wasn't full of Diet Pepsi when I read it! You know, you can keep the boy in line by threatening to tell his future girlfriends this story!!!

Re: Bruises and marks. I just never made much of them. Some red marks could be from recently sleeping on a lump or whatever. Know what I mean? And bruises, well, me and my kids have pale skin that bruises in heavy wind! I'm sure I've got lots of photos when they were young that captured a bruise or red mark that was completely innocent, so I hate to judge.

I go with the posters who've educated us all about bruises in the "wrong" areas of the body.

And re: the comment about your son feeling "safe" to misbehave, ITA. I haven't seen all the videos spoke of on this thread about Caylee looking scared or apprehinsive, but enough of you have and gotten an uneasy feeling from them so I trust your judgement.

I've laughed my way through many of your messages, and also learned something about bruises in the "wrong" areas. Thanks for all that. :blowkiss:

I think, however, there's one indisputable fact that we've been skirting because it's almost too horrible for us to acknowledge: If KC killed Caylee in anger or revenge, or even indifference--by letting Caylee die instead of saving her--then there's an overwhelming liklihood that KC had physically hurt Caylee plenty of times in the past when Caylee was "difficult." Let's be honest--any mother who could drive around with her baby's decaying body in the trunk, and go out partying knowing that--is fully capable of harming that alive baby whenever she pleased.

In fact, when I watched Casey "loose it" and clench her fists during that August jail visit, the first thing I thought was, "I wonder how many times Caylee saw KC look like that at her, and I wonder what violence came next."

 

[hollyhobby1973]

The hairdresser must of felt something was odd about the boo boo to take a cell phone photo. IMO, you usually ask a child that age..."gee honey what happened?" Who knows what Caylee said to the hairdresser.

Is this the same hairdresser that KC claimed not to go to in one of the jailhouse videos to CA? I tell you, hairdressers that don't exsist, nannys that do exsist..or is that the other way around?:crazy:

 

[magic-cat]

Abuse can take so very many forms and all of it is not physical. I believe that Caylee was abused and that she was afraid of her mother. Casey was diabolical, to borrow a word from Jesse-she had more sides than anyone even realized, and unfortunately for poor little Caylee, one of those sides was a monster that Caylee was very likely afraid and aprehensive around when they were left alone.

What I wonder in my deepest heart is what did Caylee TELL Cindy that made her so violent that she CHOKED Casey? She knew Casey was a thief and a liar and had put up with THAT behavior for years. I feel certain that Caylee was beginning to TELL her things, and those things were the subject of their "fight" that night before she yanked Caylee out of the home forever. Of course we will never know, because Cindy and Casey will go on lying forever, but I have been wondering if she may have told Cindy something about the trunk or about some man or something else that sent Cindy into a fit of rage at her daughter. I doubt it was over a theft...I am sure there was something more that is being left unsaid and I KNOW that Cindy and Casey are both well aware of what THAT is...

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Inmate visitor log 1/9/2009 ???? Caylee's Bruises??? Could there be a connection?
Inmate visitor log shows on 1/9/2009 Casey had 2 visitors from 4:41pm-5:04pm. They were Williams Procknow and Dawn Murray. The reason for the visit is listed as "interview". No attorney present.Visitor log: http://www.cfnews13.com/uploadedFiles/Stories/Local/090123UPDATEDVisitation Log Anthony.pdf

I thought the case was closed by the DCS why would they visit Casey at the jail and why would Baez allow that visit? I have not seen an update regarding the visit. Has anyone heard anything?

 

[kageykaren]

Could there be another ongoing case tird into the murder of Caylee that would bring in child protective services at this late date?

 

[gardenhart]

I've laughed my way through many of your messages, and also learned something about bruises in the "wrong" areas. Thanks for all that. :blowkiss:

I think, however, there's one indisputable fact that we've been skirting because it's almost too horrible for us to acknowledge: If KC killed Caylee in anger or revenge, or even indifference--by letting Caylee die instead of saving her--then there's an overwhelming liklihood that KC had physically hurt Caylee plenty of times in the past when Caylee was "difficult." Let's be honest--any mother who could drive around with her baby's decaying body in the trunk, and go out partying knowing that--is fully capable of harming that alive baby whenever she pleased.

In fact, when I watched Casey "loose it" and clench her fists during that August jail visit, the first thing I thought was, "I wonder how many times Caylee saw KC look like that at her, and I wonder what violence came next."

When this topic first came up months ago, I thought there was nothing too it. It was first discussed as a redness around her mouth and that looked too much like the rash my daughter would get from drinking orange juice.

But after seeing that same tape of Casey and, frankly, seeing the whole family's anger, I'm not so sure.

I had the same thought about how many times Caylee must have seen that anger and how much more came next? People who indulge in rage fits usually don't just stick to verbal abuse, I think. Eventually it spills over into something else.

And if Casey could fly into such a rage over nothing, how much more could she have been triggered by typical toddler behavior?

Another thought - if people here can see that apprehension and fear in photos and brief videos, why in the heck didn't anyone in the family see it?! grrrrrrrr Is this yet another example of the As turning a blind eye?

 

[DotsEyes]

I haven't seen any photos of bruises. I haven't seen any marks on Caylee in any photos. A little red rash around the mouth is not uncommon in babies or toddlers as this area stays wet from bottles, hand feeding and wiping the mouth.

IMHO CA would never overlook suspicious bruising of Caylee, no matter what KC said. CA is defending KC now because she is in jail pending a murder trial, but at home if Caylee had unusual bruising - CA would have raised the roof. I just don't see CA ignoring ANY injuries to Caylee.

 

[Friday]

When this topic first came up months ago, I thought there was nothing too it. It was first discussed as a redness around her mouth and that looked too much like the rash my daughter would get from drinking orange juice.

But after seeing that same tape of Casey and, frankly, seeing the whole family's anger, I'm not so sure.

I had the same thought about how many times Caylee must have seen that anger and how much more came next? People who indulge in rage fits usually don't just stick to verbal abuse, I think. Eventually it spills over into something else.

And if Casey could fly into such a rage over nothing, how much more could she have been triggered by typical toddler behavior?


Another thought - if people here can see that apprehension and fear in photos and brief videos, why in the heck didn't anyone in the family see it?! grrrrrrrr Is this yet another example of the As turning a blind eye?

Re bolded by me: This is another awfully difficult subject to address, let alone try to sort out, because I believe beyond any doubt that Cindy adored, loved, treasured, and took care of Caylee's every need. In short, Cindy accepted full responsibility for Caylee's well-being except for making sure that Caylee's caregiver, KC, was a fit and reliable woman.

Cindy knew KC had a volatile temper, she knew KC was a liar, and a thief, and a "sociopath," and she knew Casey didn't want to accept responsibility for Caylee. Could there be a worse candidate to knowingly entrust with a toddler's daily care--other than a convicted murderer or pedophile?

Cindy regarded herself, correctly, as being "in charge" of Caylee's wellbeing, and yet she knew all of KC's shortcomings. She knew KC lied about working, she knew KC was so broke that she needed to steal $4,000, and yet, Cindy chose to believe for almost 2 years, that KC had actually employed a suitable "nanny" who looked after Caylee while KC wasn't working?

Given all of that, and given Cindy's very assertive personality, it is inconceivable that neither she nor George bothered to follow KC now and then, to make certain KC was telling the truth--which they knew she rarely did--so they could be sure that Caylee was safe and secure.

I will never understand why Cindy didn't feel any need to do that. For that matter, knowing what I do about Cindy, I cannot conceive of her not insisting on meeting "the nanny" early on. It just doesn't "jive" with her personality to me, let alone her very real commitment to Caylee.

I guess, to sum it all up, I dunno. I dunno. I wish someone with expertise and knowledge could explain it to all of us.

ETA: I have no thoughts about whether or not there's anything significant in those photos, and like many others here, my children--especially my son--was a walking, talking magnet for bruises, bumps and cuts, when he was young. I used to tear my hair out. LOL

 

[Friday]

I haven't seen any photos of bruises. I haven't seen any marks on Caylee in any photos. A little red rash around the mouth is not uncommon in babies or toddlers as this area stays wet from bottles, hand feeding and wiping the mouth.

IMHO CA would never overlook suspicious bruising of Caylee, no matter what KC said. CA is defending KC now because she is in jail pending a murder trial, but at home if Caylee had unusual bruising - CA would have raised the roof. I just don't see CA ignoring ANY injuries to Caylee.

You know, Dot, I completely agree with you on the one hand, but is it possible Cindy could have been as subconsciously "blind" to that as she was to Casey's pregnancy?

 

[DotsEyes]

You know, Dot, I completely agree with you on the one hand, but is it possible Cindy could have been as subconsciously "blind" to that as she was to Casey's pregnancy?

Nah, I don't think so. CA wanted to get custody of Caylee and suspicious bruises would have set off the alarms and she would have taken photographs as proof of KC's unfitness. If there is anything I am 100% sure of, it is that CA and GA loved Caylee and would never ignore her injuries. What KC did to them, they could forgive and overlook but not when it came to Caylee.