Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #4

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On Feb 4th, 2010 the McStay Family, Joey, Summer, Gianni, and Joseph Jr vanished from their home. It looked like the family simply got up and left their home never to return.

Law Enforcement was convinced that the McStay family ran away to Mexico.

Patrick McStay, Joey's father, along with other loved ones knew there was no way Joey and his family would never flee to Mexico. There was no reason for this scenario presented by law enforcement.

Up until the remains of the family were found buried in the desert on November 11, 2013, Patrick McStay searched for his son and his family.

Family friend Chase Merritt was arrested for the McStay family murders on Nov 7th, 2014 and finally, Merritt's first-degree murder trial is underway.

The McStay forum is in our private section. However, we are making the discussion of the trial public.

Link to prior general discussion threads:

Thread #1
Thread #2
Thread #3
Thread #4
Thread #5
Thread #6
Thread #7
Thread #8
Thread #9
Thread #10
Thread #11
Thread #12
Thread #13
Thread #14
Thread #15
Thread #16
Thread #17
Thread #18
Thread #19
Thread #20


Closing Arguments:

Thread #1
Thread #2

Thread #3
 
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Hey Everyone,

We are lucky that two members are going to make it possible to know what is going on during the closing arguments.

La2Cabo and Frankie Hellis with work hand in hand to post updates from the courthouse.

eeLa2Cabo will be in the courthouse and sending messages to Frankie Hellis who will then post the information.

Thank you both for helping Websleuths members and visitors have a better understanding of the is really going on in court.

What we will do is start a new thread tomorrow for closing arguments and go from there.

What do you think?

Will we get a guilty verdict? If so how fast?

Or will it be an aqquital? If so how fast?
 
The argument about the absence of a court order is just that, an argument. It will be quickly dismissed IMO. Not contacting jurors is set in stone and the numerous affidavits confirm that Wallace was well aware of the rules.

McGee's affidavit will tick off the judge since he used his illness as an excuse to bend the rules once already.
 
Admin Note:

Roundhouseman is now a Verified Insider in this case.

Please remember to be respectful to them at all times and remember that they do not need to provide links to anything they say in their posts.
 
MissJames:
IMO it was part of the trigger but there’s more .

Chase had an active warrant out. What are the odds Joey ,or Summer via Joey , threatened bringing in LE upon discovering charles merritt received funds from EIP’s acct that Joey had not given him. Final straw for Joey?

Supposedly they were getting some big orders with the potential from 10’s of thousands to millions. At the same time Joey is distancing himself & these desls from charles merritt. Think Chase might be getting angry?

After the disappearance, Chase had nothing good to say about Summer McStay . Summer didn’t like Chase & was not quiet about it . Blow to the jaw was probably part of the rage Chase had built up , blaming Summer for turning Joey against him, stories he tells himself in his warped brain.

He even seemed to dislike the two boys . He thought they were spoiled brats.

So it wasn’t over just $30,000 in my view . It was about more possible jail time , losing part of the profits from a million+ dollar job and any future jobs.
Rage
All , JMHO

Yes, RAGE. And white hot jealousy. He was angry and resentful, imo. He thought he should be a full partner with Joey. Why does Joey have a beautiful new home, and 100k in his checking account? While Chase was overdrafted and about to be evicted?

He felt entitled to those stolen checks. He KNEW that Joey would eventually see those cashed and forged checks. But I guess he didn't really care. So either he already planned to get rid of his boss or he somehow thought it would work out and he could convince him it was no big deal.

I think Chase was seething with anger and resentment and jealousy towards Joey and his family. Summer gets to be a stay at home mom, and design and decorate her new 4 bedroom home, and shop for the kids all day. And she doesn't deserve it because she is a B. And those kids are spoiled brats and don't deserve to be spending the money that Chase himself is working is hard to bring in.

With narcissists it is all about them. If Joey dared to question Chase about those stolen checks, and threaten to cut him out of future jobs because of it, it would trigger all of that seething rage.
 
What you describe makes me think of “wound collecting.” It’s a common trait of mass murderers, and I suspect it’s what brought Chase to to the point of killing the McStay family.

On Wound Collectors

MissJames:


Yes, RAGE. And white hot jealousy. He was angry and resentful, imo. He thought he should be a full partner with Joey. Why does Joey have a beautiful new home, and 100k in his checking account? While Chase was overdrafted and about to be evicted?

He felt entitled to those stolen checks. He KNEW that Joey would eventually see those cashed and forged checks. But I guess he didn't really care. So either he already planned to get rid of his boss or he somehow thought it would work out and he could convince him it was no big deal.

I think Chase was seething with anger and resentment and jealousy towards Joey and his family. Summer gets to be a stay at home mom, and design and decorate her new 4 bedroom home, and shop for the kids all day. And she doesn't deserve it because she is a B. And those kids are spoiled brats and don't deserve to be spending the money that Chase himself is working is hard to bring in.

With narcissists it is all about them. If Joey dared to question Chase about those stolen checks, and threaten to cut him out of future jobs because of it, it would trigger all of that seething rage.
 
Kids are allowed in courtrooms, they just have to be quiet. I've taken my kids to observe court in the past with non violent cases.

Of course kids who are actually testifying are allowed into the courtroom. But as spectators? I have seen kids brought to the courtroom department, several times each year. I've been practicing since 2002.
Every single time (except once, in a closed courtroom, specially set and assigned- when the witness had an infant and a toddler and could not find child care), the bailiffs rushed to intercept the adult and child and get the kids out.

The only exception is middle school kids who get to sit in on a case during a mock trial group event.

That's my experience as an attorney in CA for 17 years.


It is actually not permitted for the same attorneys who did the trial to do the appeal. The reason being that one of the things the appeals court looks at whether the defendant raises it or not, is ineffective assistance of counsel. That is the reason for the attorney change for the appeal process.

Now that said, the trial attorney can certainly assist the appellate attorney. Since they were there for trial they are very familiar with all of it. They just won't be the attorneys of record after sentencing.

While it's discouraged for trial attorneys to handle their same client's appeal, because they may not be objective enough to see if anything went wrong, it is allowed and occasionally people do it.

GUILTY - Closing Arguments- Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #3


Sometimes guilty people go free simply because of a lack of evidence. (Caylee's case.)

GUILTY - Closing Arguments- Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #3


I watched every second of the Casey Anthony trial and there was absolutely enough evidence to convict her of murder, IMO. I saw the judges's face as he read the verdict form. He was stunned. Shocked.

And he himself has stated there was enough evidence to sustain a conviction of first degree murder against her.

We also have to remember that the jury also had multiple lesser includeds and other charges to convict her of besides first degree, premeditated murder including felony first degree murder, second degree murder, manslaughter, third degree felony murder, aggravated manslaughter of a child and aggravated child abuse.

They found her not guilty of every last one of those because each would have required a sentencing phase and after the brutal and punitive sequestering, they just wanted to go home.

That case changed the system such that now, judges are very reluctant to sequester juries much at all.

But it does make sense to me that if a person didn't think there was enough evidence to convict Casey Anthony of any of the crimes I listed, they'd be on the fence with CM's case.

IMO, there was plenty of evidence for both cases to end up with homicide convictions.
 
@MsFacetious

It's hard for me to see the comments about the defense attorneys. They are not all horrible people. My boss definitely gets attached to his clients and their families. He takes injustice very hard, when an innocent person gets convicted it is hard on him.

I don't know these attorneys... but they were doing their job. Without defense attorneys our system can't function at all. It already has enough issues as it is.

As an ex lawyer I agree with you in general, but not in relation to this pair.

They are deeply unethical IMO.

I don't know whether some of that is simply cultural and Cali is looser - but when I was rereading Malines opening recently I was stunned at the outright false statements and misdirections once we learned what the defence had actually learned in the discovery phase.

Furthermore i think McGee's conduct in delaying the trial, and his contempt of court in closing was simply outrageous.

This is before we even get into Maline's day to day behaviour

- calling witnesses without any of the relevant reports being prepared
- basing questions on content the judge had specifically banned
- speculating on matters to seek false answers
- attempting to procure perjured testimony

I won't even comment on the jury tampering!

A pair of rotten eggs
 
I hope that all the people in law enforcement and the prosecution team had the champagne flowing last night. They worked so hard for years to get that sweet verdict. I felt so good for them and spent more time watching them during the sentencing rather than Merritt.
 
I hope that all the people in law enforcement and the prosecution team had the champagne flowing last night. They worked so hard for years to get that sweet verdict. I felt so good for them and spent more time watching them during the sentencing rather than Merritt.

MR walked out of there like a bad arse straight to her next assignment!
 
IMO, there was plenty of evidence for both cases to end up with homicide convictions.
rsbm

What I've observed in this case, in general and not specific to any particular poster, is that some who said they didn't think the evidence was sufficient for a conviction didn't progress from this stance as the trial unfolded. The trial is not opening statements, it's a fluid thing, things were not crossed off lists as they fell to the unreasonable or downright obviously fabricated side, leaving the only one reasonable conclusion. And then there are others who are and were always fixed on a different perpetrator or group of perpetrators at the start of trial and didn't follow the trial, who persist with incorrect facts and still insist the only evidence against Merritt was theft of money which is not evidence of murder.

I'll give some examples of what the evidence proved while opinions did not shift -

Cathy Jarvis admitted in conversation with Merritt in the jail in February this year that she does not know where Merritt was that night. Wave goodbye to your alibi right there Merritt - her testimony was perjury. We can forget anything and everything else she said, including Merritt getting cheques on the 4th.

The phone call from Joey's phone at 8.28 that night that did not connect to Merritt's phone which was off the grid she could not have seen.

She was calling him from 6 pm and he wasn't answering for 3 1/2 hours.

Merritt uttered the first ever lie in February 2010 that Joseph wanted to delete QB (custom account) to hide money from Summer. The hiding QB from Dan was an attorney/client fabrication for trial and the DKDI defence. Where's the critical thinking?

What are the reasonable possibilities for who could have raised the cheque in the house at 8 pm that night in the same peculiar manner cheques were raised that week and the next? Who? Joseph the account owner or Chase the payee. Once you know that they were murdered and buried and not traipsing across the border, in what world is it reasonable to assume Joseph and Summer were alive after that critical event but not using their phones? In what world is it reasonable to assume that Chase unknowingly raised a cheque with the exact same memo line next day? Or that Joseph would print a cheque alignment page and try to create a cheque he'd already asked Chase that day to write, and then just leave it mangled in his printer, or would delete it same as Chase did on a cheque which had a forged signature on the 2nd; that someone a ghost maybe but not Chase would go back and try to bury the QB activity in the early hours of the 8th but that Chase would as a matter of coincidence call QB that day and the next to delete QB custom from the cloud; that Chase would backdate cheques to the only possible last date Joseph was alive to write cheques. Where's the critical thinking, or discussion of what is reasonable?

It's more than theft - as all these many MANY incriminating details illustrate - it's what happened in the house at 8 pm on the 4th, the forgery before the 4th, Joseph's calls to the bank and log in to QB sandwiched in between all the while bombing along the freeway to Rancho, Chases's phone activity that lunch time, Joseph's last call to Chase coinciding with Chase's phone going dark, Cathy's fabricated (null) evidence, and the attempts to wipe QB in the days afterwards before reporting Joseph missing.

Supplemented by knowing Chase with his phone was in the desert where the family was buried. Not explained by the defence as some postulate without pointing to a shred of evidence and not a whiff of Vlad. Who needed them missing? - as McGee pointed out in his opening. This was more than murder, it was a need to hide the family and evidence of murder. The Trooper was staged for the wild goose chase and whose evidence was in it? Not some other random unidentified profile - Chase's.

So finally, upwards of 11 touch-DNA profiles in the graves. But none belonging to the McStays, proving BRD that those touch-DNA results are not representative of what went into the graves over 9 years ago.

It's frightening to think some have 'convicted' DK or Mike in their own minds, based on early dislike and prejudice, accused SBSD of tunnel vision and bias based on nothing, but maybe malice, all the while ignoring their own biases, and ignoring the evidence in this trial.

It's fruitless IMO to keep stating over and over again that reasonable doubt exists all the while refusing to acknowledge the number of convoluted and mostly ridiculous (and as we've seen brazenly fabricated) alternative explanations that are required, most of which don't pass the smell test but none of which do when viewed all together, and not recognizing what totality of evidence means in this case. I have to wonder about some people's motives for maintaining a position throughout a trial which revealed the answers and much more about the underhanded tactics of the DT and their attempts to sabotage the trial since their case flopped with the jailhouse tapes, particularly when the prosecution did not overstate their case in opening speeches and many jumped off that to say they thought then he was guilty but the prosecution didn't prove what they set out to.

MOO

(sorry I got a bit of a bee in my bonnet this morning. :D )
 
Good morning all!

After yesterday's announcement I felt exhausted, and emotionally drained even though I was elated the victims, and their family members finally received justice.

I take full exception when anyone says Maline, and McGee were just doing their jobs. Gah!

As everyone knows I have been a trial follower for decades now allowing me to see many defense attorneys representing their clients in murder trials.

Imo, no way, no how do most act like M&M have behaved in this trial. Imo, they purposefully made a mockery out of our justice system.

I still believe complaints should be filed against them both to the ABA. We cannot allow attorneys like them to do the unethical things they have done throughout without any accountability.

Some of the best trial attorneys I've seen have been defense attorneys.

No, they didn't behave like these two who turned this trial into a three ring circus with them being the circus barkers. It's even more appalling that for many years McGee was a prosecutor. He knew better, but he just didn't care along with his sidekick, Maline.

The other great defense attorneys were calm, respectful of court rules, and represented their clients extremely well. It was obvious they did not have any desire to make the trial all about them.

Imo, from minute one from OS it was far more important to them to have notoriety ...even if they had to bald face lie to the jury, which they did throughout.

They are the reason why defense lawyers have a bad name. They, and others like them shame all of the good defense attorneys which are many.

It's the Baez, Steve Feldman, Maline, and McGees in our court system who have no ethical boundaries of how low they are willing to stoop...hoping for a win. It doesn't matter what it takes which included lying, and deceiving the juries.

It isn't even about CM to them. He's just who they use to have their own narcissism fed. Just three narcissists feeding off of each other. No wonder they seem to get along well with CM. Imo, They're personalities are very much alike. To win at all cost..true justice be damned.

Jmhoo
 
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The state will start calling witnesses showing CMs bad character evidence.

They may call Susan back to the stand first or another family member.

Imo
Well we certainly will find out more about Merritts character. And hopefully some answers to long held questions. Did he have a heart attack and spend time in the hospital? Was there a trip to Saudi?

It's going to be a compellingly day in court for sure.
 
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