Child gun deaths occurs roughly twice as often as publicly reported.

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by animlzrule, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. animlzrule

    animlzrule New Member

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    According to a front-page New York Times report ("Children and Guns: The Hidden Toll") published Sunday, accidental child gun deaths occur roughly twice as often as publicly reported.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?hp&_r=0


    The National Rifle Association cited the lower official numbers this year in a fact sheet opposing “safe storage” laws, saying children were more likely to be killed by falls, poisoning or environmental factors — an incorrect assertion if the actual number of accidental firearm deaths is significantly higher.

    Because of maneuvering in Congress by the gun lobby and its allies, firearms have also been exempted from regulation by the Consumer Product Safety Commission since its inception.

    This is a pretty damning report. It'll be interesting (and predictable) to see how the NRA spins this one....:facepalm::banghead:
     
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  3. Nova

    Nova New Member

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    "When children are killed in unintentional shootings, medical examiners and coroners classify many as homicides, or even suicides."

    The entire article is disturbing and yet worth reading, but for those who don't want to read down to where the undercount is explained, see above. "Homicide" just means killed by another person; it doesn't specify intention or lack thereof.

    What is perhaps most disturbing is that California has 4 times the population, but fewer than half the childhood gun deaths (accidental or intentional or total) as Georgia or North Carolina. I wonder why...
     
  4. Sonya610

    Sonya610 Former Member

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    The above statement seems quite believeable and the article's rebuttal makes no sense. Firearms that are "mishandled" by criminals includes leaving them around, getting high and dropping ones pants (with gun) on the floor, leaving loaded firearms around small children etc.... The criminal element "mishandles" the firearms and then the children in the house end up firing them.

    It happens once or twice a year in the nearby (high crime) city. Half the time the scumbags "hide" the gun and then call 911 to report the shooting as if no one will ask what happened to it.
     
  5. Karmady

    Karmady Former Member

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    Considering the source, I also would focus on the definitions of "mishandling" and "children," especially since a lot of gun related deaths are linked to gang violence with children getting caught in the crossfire or hit by random shots through walls, doors and window. And a lot of the gangbangers are, technically, still "children."

    jmo
     
  6. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    The thread title is a little misleading, isn't it? It says that child gun deaths are more common than reported but what the article says is that accidental gun deaths are more common than reported. Whether classified as a homicide or an accident it's still a gun death so this issue shouldn't change the number of child gun deaths altogether. I think those things are in different statistical categories. Gunshot wounds are counted under causes of death and accidents, suicides, homicides are counted under manner of death.

    I don't care if you're a gangbanger or a law abiding, card holding member of the holy saints; if you let toddlers play with your loaded gun it makes you a criminal in my book, and should a child die, you're as good as a child murderer.

    There is just no excuse for this to happen, ever.

    Yeah, whatever, it's just children, totally disposable. Whyever should adults be required to behave responsibly? :banghead:

    Human beings being such selfish creatures, you'd think that everybody who needs guns laying around readily accessible to "protect themselves" would also give a thought or two to the fact that it could be them that the toddler kills with the gun that lays around.
     
  7. animlzrule

    animlzrule New Member

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    It's not misleading. We are given statistics on gun deaths. The issue is that the deaths are not being reported as accidental, they are being reported as homicide. So when the NRA and it's minions bleat about how much safer everyone and their dog would supposedly be if we were all armed to the teeth, their bogus statistics can hide the fact that double the amount of children are being killed by "responsible" gun owners than have been previously reported. It's common sense that having a gun in your home with a child is a recipe for disaster, and no amount of spin or propaganda by the NRA changes that. But money speaks louder than children's lives, so carry on NRA, carry on....
     
  8. animlzrule

    animlzrule New Member

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    No. The point is that the "accidental" gun deaths of children from gun shots not inflicted during what is considered to be a criminal act are being misreported or under represented as homicides, versus accidental gun deaths. Unfortunately, the perpetrators of these "accidental" deaths typically aren't prosecuted and killing a child due to a gun owner's negligence (not in the legal sense of the word but in the literal sense) isn't considered a criminal act. So the NRA can further misrepresent their propaganda by claiming that guns in the home make us safer, never mind that double the number of children than previously thought are being killed by them. The whole "responsible gun owner" becomes even more of an oxymoron.
     
  9. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    Yes, I got all that and I agree with you. But your headline doesn't say that, it says that children's gun deaths, regardless of the accidental nature or lack thereof or the perceived responsible nature of the gun owners, are twice as common as reported. I don't think the statistics can be so careless as to lose half the children who died.
     
  10. animlzrule

    animlzrule New Member

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    BBM. Of course they are. They propagandize to the fearful and paranoid, and knowingly use false statistics to promote their whole "responsible" gun owner trope. There is no movement to abolish the 2nd amendment in this country, there never was, and yet the NRA continues to talk about "doing away with the 2nd amendment". If people want to give their money to the gun industry, it's their right, but let's not pretend the NRA cares about anything other than making money. And they make that money at the expense of children's lives. The fact that gun sales have "skyrocketed" is a sad commentary on the gullibility of a certain segment of society. I don't know anyone that has a handgun. But getting back to the point of the story, children are being killed in far greater numbers by "responsible" gun owners, and it's not being reported. If we're not going to make it possible for children to live safely in their own homes, at least we should be getting the statistics right so their stories can be told.
     
  11. Sonya610

    Sonya610 Former Member

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    The NRA is a lobbying group who's sole purpose is to defend MY gun rights. That is why I send them money, that is why millions of other Americans send them money.

    They reflect the will of the gun owners in the U.S. I don't want the NRA to be "reasonable" I want them to fight tooth and nail to protect my rights. The other side isn't "reasonable" and anyone with common sense realizes that we should not be "reasonable" either. I don't want the NRA to give an inch.
     
  12. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam New Member

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    Agreed, but you can't outlaw accidents and you can't outlaw stupid.
    This article wasn't written in the hopes of reducing the accidental deaths of children. It uses children to advance the anti-gun agenda. IMO.
     
  13. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    You can't outlaw accidents and you can't outlaw stupid but you CAN outlaw irresponsible storing of dangerous items. That is not an accident, it's a crime (or should be.) Not just guns, for that matter. There are regulations as to how you're supposed to handle and store explosives and many dangerous machines to ensure safety, and laws that point out that you shouldn't carelessly let children shoot each other with your guns exist in many places in the world. It's been done and those societies did not collapse because a little bit of common sense was introduced in the legislation.
     
  14. TrackerSam

    TrackerSam New Member

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    You're not going to find out it was irresponsibly stored until after someone's been hurt. Laws don't prevent.
     
  15. Donjeta

    Donjeta Adji Desir, missing from Florida

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    Well, you never know. Some people might put their guns away because they want to obey the law or avoid getting fined or because they just get a clue. And those who don't can at least be held accountable later when their negligence has killed someone.

    Do you think all traffic laws should be got rid of because the same exact argument applies there? Not everybody is going to obey traffic regulations, some drunk people will no doubt drive unsafe vehicles too fast, ignoring stop signs while talking on their cell phones. Should we just shrug and say, no point outlawing that behavior because laws don't prevent all accidents, let's just let them continue the irresponsibility and not even try to hold them accountable for their actions? Should we not worry about outlawing murder and assault because laws don't seem to be preventing all of them and often you only find out about people's criminal tendencies after someone has been hurt ?

    Of course not.
     
  16. animlzrule

    animlzrule New Member

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    No, this article was written to show further proof that far more people, children included, are killed by guns in "accidental" incidents than are ever reported, thereby giving lie to the promotion by the NRA that having guns in the home makes one safer. Having guns in your home doesn't make you or your children safer, but it sure makes the NRA richer.
     
  17. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

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    Ask Mr. Frew how he feels about having a gun to protect himself.

    http://www.christianpost.com/news/j...er-after-wife-son-are-shot-and-killed-105648/
     
  18. animlzrule

    animlzrule New Member

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    For every anecdote about self defense use of a handgun, there are at least 2 stories of handguns killing people and children "accidentally" in their own homes or being killed by a friend or someone they love. Because once in a while someone gets lucky with a handgun we should be putting everyone at risk, including our children??? Wow.
     
  19. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

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    bbm, do you have a link to this as fact?
     
  20. Montjoy

    Montjoy Inactive

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    "For every time a gun in the home was used in a self-defense or legally justifiable shooting, there were four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides."

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9715182
     
  21. Elley Mae

    Elley Mae The enemy is here. beware

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    Firearm
    —
    In 2010, 31,672 persons died from firearm injuries in the United States(Tables 18 and 19), accounting for 17.5 percent of all injury deaths in that year. The two major component causes of all firearm injury deaths in 2010 were suicide (61.2 percent) and homicide (35.0 percent).
    The age-adjusted death rate from firearm injuries (all intents) was 10.1 in 2010, unchanged from the rate in 2009. The age-adjusted death rate for firearm suicide increased 3.4 percent in 2010 from 2009, whereas the death rate for firearm homicide decreased 5.3 percent.

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_04.pdf
     

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