Chloroform Murders/Abductions

[Mullins]

Thanks

You pointed out some things I hadn't thought of. It is a strange topic, I know, but one that unfortunately I am considering in part of my research. Maybe something will connect somewhere along the way with some other cases. I believe that the use of chloroform (if it was used) was to keep victims alive so that they could more easily be raped/tortured and that the perpetrator derived much pleasure in knowing they were still alive and helpless/powerless. This could be accomplished with lots of things other than chloroform, depending on both the victim and the perpetrator. A gun to the head for example. But there's a reason I'm looking into chloroform as a method of abduction in past murders/missings, and I appreciate the feedback.

Thought I'd add my thoughts since I have a bottle of each and was wondering myself about the reasons for the questions :waitasec:

I was actually told by doctors to use nail polish remover for the glue on my skin from surgical tape, after checking my bottle mine is 100% acetone which carries a warning about causing vapor gases and cause dizziness, headaches, etc. Could that be what was causing the trouble in the ER?

On to the paint thinner; what I have is called Klean Strip, supposed to be better than paint thinner but contains the warnings of buildup vapors causing dizziness, headaches, etc. is fatal if swallowed.

Truth is there have been predators that have attacked using mace or pepper spray as well as the ones told about using chloroform and I read the articles posted about hollywood exaggerating on the chlorofrom some time ago at CTV I think, in the crime library but if you think about it logically if a rag is soaked in this stuff right before you grab the victim, now this rag is also covering the mouth and nose in most depictions and the victim is grabbed from behind, how long should it take? Thing is hollywood speeds it up because every minute is money and that's all but in reality it won't take long for that person to pass out and not be able to struggle. It only takes 2 minutes to strangle a person to death so maybe after one minute, imo that's still quick especially if your mouth and nose are covered and you can't scream either.

As for the huffing paint and glue stuff I grew up with many teenagers that did this in excess and watched them burn up their brain cells, to be truthful I watched the effects a lot and they hallucinate, are totally out of it but as a matter of fact there are a lot of household chemicals that will produce this effect. This kind of abuse of one's brain imo is the most dangerous and I see similarities with this and meth. These people are dangerous, one who had been a life long friend blew his wife's head off with a shotgun by the time he was 19, he was one of the biggest abusers of the huffing paint era.

Someone that can't be around any kind of fumes from household cleaners, bug spray, bleach, ammonia, oven cleaners, hair dye and perms, etc. because of medical reasons might be more knowledge about the potency of this stuff too besides an abuser. I don't think in an abduction type scenario the abductor would have to have a tolerance built up anyway because of it taking place in an open area so they aren't inhaling the fumes up close through the nose and mouth like the victim wherein it would be more like odor to them but fumes being inhaled to the victim. Any form of cutting off oxygen to the brain even without the use of chemicals will result in unconscienceness.

 

[Richard]

I worked as a printer many years ago. At the end of the day, we would fill up squirt bottles with Trichloretholene and spray wash the presses to get all of the ink and paper dust washed out. I almost always got a headache in the process.

There was a room with several open pans filled with Trichloretholene where we would put the print rollers to be cleaned off, and where we would pick out one that we might need for a job. Once, one of the guys was missing, and nobody saw him leave the building or go to the break room. He was found in that room in sort of a daze because he had stayed in there too long looking for a roller.

There are (and were then) some pretty strict OSHA regulations about that substance and others like it. Obviously for pretty good reasons.

 

[MyJessieAngel]

I worked as a printer many years ago. At the end of the day, we would fill up squirt bottles with Trichloretholene and spray wash the presses to get all of the ink and paper dust washed out. I almost always got a headache in the process.

There was a room with several open pans filled with Trichloretholene where we would put the print rollers to be cleaned off, and where we would pick out one that we might need for a job. Once, one of the guys was missing, and nobody saw him leave the building or go to the break room. He was found in that room in sort of a daze because he had stayed in there too long looking for a roller.

There are (and were then) some pretty strict OSHA regulations about that substance and others like it. Obviously for pretty good reasons.

You know, when I was about 21 (loooooong time ago) I worked as a printer too, in a container company. (we printed the bags that horse feed is sold in, etc). Anyway, I used to have to spray some kind of strong-smelling solvent on the rollers and wipe them, respray, rewipe, until they were clean (after we had emptied the inkwell, of course), and I remember the fumes making me sick to my stomach sometimes. After my daughter Jessie was born, they had told me that if I had another baby I would have lots of testing done (to make sure all was well with my next child). Anyway, while I was working as a printer, we found out I was pregnant with my daughter, Jeni (who is now 17). My doctor made me quit my job because the solvents we used were clearly marked that exposure to the ingredients and breathing the fumes would cause birth defects..all my employer could give me was a dust mask (not good enough, sorry), so I had to quit. Thing was, I was probably exposing Jeni to the fumes for at LEAST a month before we even knew I was pregnant. Thankfully, she was born healthy, and hardly ever gets sick.
Just my two cents.

 

[Mullins]

Thanks for your input---I received a lot of thought good ideas. I also wonder if something like that was used to subdue a victim (but not kill them, only render them incapacitated somewhat) would it leave marks/burns on the skin I wonder? (Not only the cleaning fluid you mention, but also chloroform). I wonder if there would be noticeable marks on the skin, nose, throat, etc that would clue an investigator in? I suspect there would.....

You know, when I was about 21 (loooooong time ago) I worked as a printer too, in a container company. (we printed the bags that horse feed is sold in, etc). Anyway, I used to have to spray some kind of strong-smelling solvent on the rollers and wipe them, respray, rewipe, until they were clean (after we had emptied the inkwell, of course), and I remember the fumes making me sick to my stomach sometimes. After my daughter Jessie was born, they had told me that if I had another baby I would have lots of testing done (to make sure all was well with my next child). Anyway, while I was working as a printer, we found out I was pregnant with my daughter, Jeni (who is now 17). My doctor made me quit my job because the solvents we used were clearly marked that exposure to the ingredients and breathing the fumes would cause birth defects..all my employer could give me was a dust mask (not good enough, sorry), so I had to quit. Thing was, I was probably exposing Jeni to the fumes for at LEAST a month before we even knew I was pregnant. Thankfully, she was born healthy, and hardly ever gets sick.
Just my two cents.

 

[PonderingThings]

Sandra Bullock did a movie called "The Vanishing". Its a terrible remake of an AWESOME french thriller, but, as I recall there was a lot of focus on using chloriform in an abduction... not only the amount, but the way you have to mash it into someone's face, the time it takes, and the pitfalls (a dead body if given too much), the possible advance warning because of the strong odor, etc..

I may be remembering this wrong as its been some time since I saw the movie.... but maybe its worth a trip to Blockbuster?

 

[meggilyweggily]

My tidbit: in Roald Dahl's memoir "Boy," he writes about where he got in a car accident in childhood which severed his nose (ew). The doctor came to his house and chloroformed him and Roald woke up 18 hours later with his nose sewed back on. I don't think he felt a thing.

 

[meggilyweggily]

Oh yeah -- the Chicago serial killer of the 1880s, H. H. Holmes, killed a man with a chloroform-soaked rag. And it left burns on his face. Holmes tried to claim the man committed suicide but the police didn't buy it and he was eventually hung.

 

[Mohabi]

A long, long time ago when I was a teenager.... I had daily contact with turpentine because I painted with oils. Back then my daddy supplied it to me in a corked bottle. I'd pour a bit into a jar and rest the used brushes and spatulas in the jar so I could use them again when switching colors. I remember quite well getting nauseated after a while and would have to air out the room. The airing out didn't quite work very well because I painted daily and had turpentine soaked wipes laying around. I remember quite distinctly that my room always smelled like turpentine. That would have killed a few of my very valuable brain cells over time, (now you know why I'm weird) but nobody then thought this was "getting high", I must say it was more like "getting nauseated". It's a drunk feeling.... like a really BAD drunk though!

Re chloroform: it smells a lot better than paint thinner or turpentine and is a lot more potent, the effect on your brain is instant. I posted on another thread but towards the end of it and it was missed. Back then when the world wasn't as controlled yet, wart removers contained chloroform and by the CLOUD that surrounded you when you opened the small bottle, they contained lots of it. I remember well that I would turn my head to the side when opening the bottle, but still was "drunk" and felt like passing out by the time I had applied a bit of it to my wart and closed the bottle again. The smell indeed is sweet and very pleasant, but the effect on awareness (i.e. instantly feeling drunk) is quite impressive.

I am no chemist, but I'm sure it would take very little chloroform to put a child to sleep and just a little longer period of inhalation - to put a child to sleep permanently.

 

[littlehorn]

I work in cooling/refrigeration sales. We sell theft-proof key-locking caps for home air conditioning systems because in the larger cities, kids who want to get high like to use the charging port for your home AC to release R-22 into the air and huff/inhale it.

I would assume R-22's effects when concentrated would be very similar. It has a sickly-sweet smell like choroform is described as having.