Christmas Morning Picture of Burke and JB...

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by Ames, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. Toltec

    Toltec New Member

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    Children have accidents so JonBenet's wouldn't be unusual. What is unusual is the Monday morning visits to the school nurse. Why would JonBenet see the school nurse when she could have easily told her mother she was ill? It just doesn't fit into JonBenet's personality that she could not tell her own mother she was not feeling well.

    The timing of the visits...Mondays, seems suspicious to me. What happened over those weekends that JonBenet felt she needed to seek help from someone other than her parents? Was it something she felt she could not tell Patsy or John? Were Patsy or John somehow involved in JonBenet's seeking outside treatment?
     


  2. Nuisanceposter

    Nuisanceposter Remembering Little Miss Christmas

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    I've often wondered if JonBenet's Monday visits to the school nurse weren't related to her issue with staying dry. Perhaps she needed dry underwear, or perhaps she needed help with the "frequent infections that were hard to clear up" that Patsy told Pam Griffin about in PMPT. She said they were due to JB "always being in wet underwear."

    Now how long does one have to be exposed to wetness in order for an infection that requires treatment to clear up to form? Why on earth would Patsy take Beuf's word for it that such a situation was normal for a 6 year old girl and not take JonBenet to a specialist? Why should a child even have to deal with something like that, when her wealthy, well-insured parents have every opportunity to address the condition with a specialist?

    Personally, and this may be too harsh, but I consider Patsy's failure to make JonBenet's incontinence issue more important to address rather dismiss as abuse by neglect on Patsy's part. There is absolutely no way JonBenet could have possibly enjoyed having to endure such a problem and no reason that she should have had to. I guarantee you that Patsy would not have tolerated the same condition on herself without seeking the opinion of a specialist, just taking the internist's word for it that it was normal and "no big deal."
     
  3. DeeDee249

    DeeDee249 Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if PR made the full extent of JBR's incontinence known to her pediatrician? I know several moms who, when their kids were in that 2-8 year old age bracket, kept a waterproof sheet on their beds because nighttime wetting was still an issue, and yes, they were told it was nothing to worry about and the child would outgrow it. (they did)
    BUT- in JBR's case, it was much more than nighttime accidents. Overnight accidents are usually wetting, not soiling, for the most part in kids over 3. But for a formerly completely toilet-trained child to resume urinating and defecating IN HER CLOTHES in the daytime, as well as an night indictes a severe emotional problem. Usually, this problem is sexual abuse of the child by a family member, but there can be other causes.
    While many pediatricians would not see the overnight issues as a problem, I know of NO pediatrician who would think the daytime wetting/soiling is "nothing to worry about". They would try to probe and see what the home situation is, or they would recommend a specialst.
    The reason for her visits to the school nurse on several Monday mornings are very suspect to me. First, because the school would not make them available to LE IN THE CASE WHERE THE CHILD HAS BEEN MURDERED!!!
    But also because I'd like to know if JBR visited the nurse because she had vaginal pain or some other internal discomfort. If there ever was anal penetration, the sphincter could be stretched (causing inability to "hold" it till reaching a toilet) and/or it could be painful to defecate. So the child holds it so long that they cannot hold it any longer and they have an "accident".
    Sexual abuse is often the first thing a person trained in these matters would suspect when a child of that age (who was previously trained) regresses in their toileting.
     
  4. elannia

    elannia Active Member

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    Bumping this thread... has anyone heard anything more about what was in the photo?
     
  5. CorallaroC

    CorallaroC New Member

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    Here is a larger excerpt from the June 23, 1998 interview - RedBBM - hope this helps
    (full interview transcript at this link at ACR - http://www.acandyrose.com/1998BPD-Patsy-Interview-Complete.htm)

    25 TOM HANEY: Let's talk still about the
    0528
    1 120TET. Like I say, this was on your role of
    2 film and it's not exactly the same photograph
    3 that was taken by the police.
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
    5 TOM HANEY: But it's, it's, it shows --
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    7 TOM HANEY: -- pretty much, I guess, or can
    8 you tell me when that would have been taken?
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue why
    10 anybody would take a picture like that. I don't
    11 know (inaudible). Who took the picture?
    12 TOM HANEY: Well, it's on your roll --
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: It's on my --
    14 TOM HANEY: -- of film on your camera.
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
    16 TOM HANEY: And this legal pad that you --
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    18 TOM HANEY: -- identified --
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    20 TOM HANEY: -- do you know when that would
    21 have been in that position?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. So this, this was taken
    23 before photo one was?
    24 TOM HANEY: Before the police photos.
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, okay. I don't know
    0529
    1 when this was taken, or why it was taken. I
    2 mean, it's nothing.

    3 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recognize that pad, I
    4 know it's (inaudible) photo?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but we had a lot of
    6 those around. There was a picture in another
    7 one. I think.
    8 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes)
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: I bought like those Office
    10 Depot's or Office Max or whatever they are and I
    11 usually kept a bunch of them, you know, kept
    12 them over here, right around here in the
    13 kitchen.
    14 TRIP DeMUTH: By the telephone?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but, you know, they
    16 float all over.
    17 TRIP DeMUTH: So it wouldn't have been
    18 unusual to be where it is?
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: No. No. Gosh
    .
    20 TOM HANEY: Just a second, okay?
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
    22 TOM HANEY: So would this particular note
    23 pad be, belong to somebody in particular or --
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: No, not necessarily.
    25 TRIP DeMUTH: Now, what about the bag, the
    0530
    1 plastic bag?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: This one?
    3 TRIP DeMUTH: No.
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: This one?
    5 TRIP DeMUTH: Uh-huh (yes).
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know, I can't
    7 tell what's in there, what it is.
    8 TOM HANEY: Try, I don't know if that
    9 helps?
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: Do you remember what was in
    11 that one?
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: Remember we talked about a
    13 plastic bag in photo 52.
    14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I mean, I had plastic
    15 bags getting some things ready to go to the
    16 lake.
    17 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: You know, I was packing it
    19 kind of on the landing up there.
    20 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: And then we saw one down at
    22 the bottom of the stairs.
    23 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: And you said that picture
    25 was taken early that morning.
    0531
    1 TRIP DeMUTH: Right.
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: So that could have -- that
    3 could have been the bag with the clothes going
    4 to the lake and I could have brought it down and
    5 saw the note, dropped the bag. But if this was
    6 taken before that, then I don't know what's in
    7 that bag. I don't know what that is. I can't
    8 tell. I don't know.

    9 TRIP DeMUTH: Okay.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know what was in
    11 that one, either. I can't tell what that is.
    12 It looks like there's writing on that, red.
    13 TOM HANEY: Do you remember taking that
    14 photograph?
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: No.

    16 TOM HANEY: Did you take photographs
    17 Christmas morning?
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: I think we took some stills,
    19 yeah.
    20 TOM HANEY: Okay.
    21 PATSY RAMSEY: Could have been taken of the
    22 kids unwrapping and things like that.
    23 TOM HANEY: Did you take the photos or --
    24 PATSY RAMSEY: I probably took some, John
    25 probably took some.
    0532
    1 TOM HANEY: Did the kids take any?
    2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. Oh, I don't
    3 know. That just seems really weird, unless
    4 somebody was trying to get rid of film and just
    5 (indicating) clicked anything. I can't imagine
    6 why you just take a pictures of a messy hallway.

    7 TOM HANEY: Okay.
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: Did you want to see me?
    9 TRIP DeMUTH: That's a good point.
    10 PATSY RAMSEY: What is it? There's
    11 smudges.
    12 MR. ARMISTEAD: See what I'm saying?
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
    14 What could that be?
    15 TOM HANEY: Just for the record, Ellis has
    16 pointed out some black smudges on the center
    17 post of the spiral staircase.
    18 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh, uh-huh (yes). That
    19 looks strange, though.

    20 TOM HANEY: Okay. And just real briefly,
    21 this was, is 91KKY23, and this would have been
    22 taken Christmas morning and that's where the
    23 children would have been dressed that morning
    24 and had slept Christmas Eve.
    25 TRIP DeMUTH: And the main reason we wanted
    0533
    1 to show you that, actually you've already
    2 answered the question, early on we saw the pink
    3 top in the bed, right?
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: (Nods head in the
    5 affirmative.)
    6 TRIP DeMUTH: And you had remembered her
    7 wearing that.
    8 PATSY RAMSEY: I would like to have a copy
    9 of that sometime.
    10 TOM HANEY: Your call.
    11 MR. BURKE: I think we should break.
    12 TRIP DeMUTH: I'll get you a copy of that.
    13 TOM HANEY: It's 12:01 and we'll go off the
    14 tape.
     
  6. OliviaG1996

    OliviaG1996 Member

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    I wonder why this picture has never been released.
     
  7. KKazoo87

    KKazoo87 Active Member

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    I can't recall which thread it was but I believe it's been said that the pictures of the hallway (maybe right by the bottom of the staircase) were the last few pictures on the roll of film from John Ramsey's camera. Him or someone else snapped the last few in a hurry so they could to send the film to be developed. I also think something in the picture was slightly different than it appears in the police photographs but I don't think it's been decided what..kind of sounds like the notepad from the interrogation above.

    ETA (and laughing at myself) it's this thread. Page three is what I was recalling but I don't think it's ever been determined for sure what the picturen showed. The notepad has my vote though.
     
  8. InstantProof

    InstantProof Member

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    Sounds to me like the notepad is out somewhere. It was found put away, wasn't it? An intruder isn't going to put it away if they found it out.
     
  9. andreww

    andreww Former Member

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    And how would an intruder know where to put it "away" if it was never "away" when he found it?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. anne11

    anne11 Member

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    Respectfully snipped from Toltec's post from 2007 i think, It was John who finished the roll of film in the hallway, snapping away randomly. He managed to get a shot of the scarf on the wet bar and a note pad on the hallway table.
     
  11. johnjay

    johnjay New Member

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    What is the significance of the scarf?
     
  12. anne11

    anne11 Member

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    I think they were trying to find the source of some the crime scene fibers. it was either JR's scarf that was a gift from his daughter Beth or one PR had bought to give as a christmas gift
     
  13. SuzDuJour

    SuzDuJour Well-Known Member

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    But why would Patsy's response be "Oh God", and "Why would anyone take a picture like that"? Odd response to a scarf.
     
  14. tml

    tml Member

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    When I read this I had a weird thought...what if it was a photo showing something that was removed from the scene by the time police were there, taken in a different context (in this case to finish the roll), one in which a scarf laying on a chair is meaningless...except now, it's not, because the scarf was somehow part of JB's death. I know there is still speculation as to what was actually used to choke JB - rope twisted around a paintbrush stick, JB's turtleneck twisted around and pulled against her... - but what if it was a scarf?

    Just a thought that popped up while browsing...I can't imagine why her reaction would be what it was for something more overtly connected to JB's molestation or murder...in that case I would expect something more over the top. This reaction is more like an omg-I-completely-forgot-about-that and now what type of thing...and it seems genuine, to me indicating that whatever the photo shows, she really was surprised to see it there, either because someone else took the photo, or because she took a photo of something completely innocuous prior to JB's death, forgot (because it wouldn't have mattered at all at that point), and then later, when the scarf or whatever was used during the murder, got rid of it, but forgot about the photo?
     
  15. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    OliviaG1996,

    Interesting post. Patsy is all over the store in this interview, note how she sidesteps the pad question regarding ownership:
    That is not an outright no.

    DeMuth takes the opportunity to pin PR down on JonBenet's bed clothing.
    Most likely because at some future point the missing pink bottoms would be raised as an issue, i.e. compare with white long-johns and the bloodstained pink barbie nightgown?

    .
     
  16. CircuitGuy

    CircuitGuy Active Member

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    Here is my pure speculation based only on the text, which I've only seen posted here. I don't actually know anything at all. I'm just reading the transcript posted in this thread.

    16 TOM HANEY: Well, this photo 12OTET8 was on
    17 your roll of file in your camera. And on the
    18 same roll is the next photo, a Christmas morning (less than 24 hrs before the crime)
    19 photo of the kids.
    (Suppose photo shows the pad was sitting out that morning but had been put away when the police photographed the area 24 hrs later)
    20 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes). Oh, God.
    (snip)
    1 Like I say, this was on your role of
    2 film and it's not exactly the same photograph
    3 that was taken by the police.
    4 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-huh (yes).
    5 TOM HANEY: But it's, it's, it shows -- (the pad left out in this photo but not the morning you found the note)
    6 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
    7 TOM HANEY: -- pretty much, I guess, or can
    8 you tell me when that would have been taken?
    (They want to work out when it might have been put away.)
    9 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't have a clue why
    10 anybody would take a picture like that. I don't
    11 know (inaudible). Who took the picture?
    (PR says she doesn't know. Maybe she doesn't. She asks why and who as if to formulate an answer to when. That's logical, but it also suggests maybe she's dismayed someone took a potentially incriminating photo.)
    12 TOM HANEY: Well, it's on your roll --
    13 PATSY RAMSEY: It's on my --
    14 TOM HANEY: -- of film on your camera.
    15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
    (Giving simple answers like "I don't know" and not speculating is what lawyers tell you to do for a deposition.If she were innocent and felt like the police hadn't already decided she did it, I would expect her to speculate and try to help the police narrow down a time frame. OTOH, this is a deposition where lawyers urge suspects to stick to the facts.)
    16 TOM HANEY: And this legal pad that you --
    (...that you said you kept near where the police found it.)
    17 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    18 TOM HANEY: -- identified --
    (He notes she identified it so there can be no confusion if they need to use this in court.)
    19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
    20 TOM HANEY: -- do you know when that would
    21 have been in that position?
    22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. So this, this was taken
    23 before photo one was?
    (Because if somehow this were taken later, maybe the intruder found it where she keeps it, wrote the letter, and then just left it lying there. Or maybe someone else put it there.)
    24 TOM HANEY: Before the police photos.
    25 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, okay. I don't know
    0529
    1 when this was taken, or why it was taken. I
    2 mean, it's nothing.
    (It's as if she's thinking, "Someone could have innocently put it away on Christmas before the intruder came. Where not even clear when that photo was taken. It looks bad, but it doesn't prove anything.")
    3 TRIP DeMUTH: Do you recognize that pad, I
    4 know it's (inaudible) photo?
    5 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, but we had a lot of
    6 those around. There was a picture in another
    7 one. I think.
    (She offers that this might not be the pad the RN pages came from. It looks bad that the pad appears in the picture but was found put away after the RN writer used it. She needs to minimize this.)

    So to my unknowledgeable reading, it sounds like they're hoping to find how that pad got moved and possibly find something incriminating. PR's answers are consistent with it looking bad, but she doesn't say anything damning. As she says, "it's nothing". It looks kind of suspicious but doesn't prove anything.
     
  17. singularity

    singularity New Member

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    Throw me in with the group who believes different photos are being discussed there and the first one sounds ominous. She also gets a free pass on that but no shock there. They had a stack of those to hand to Patsy during the entire interview.
     
  18. UKGuy

    UKGuy Well-Known Member

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    CircuitGuy,
    There is something going on here since I think the R's have next to no Christmas photos to talk about about, so why does someone point and shoot at the referenced objects in the photos?

    Its as if fake evidence is being generated, i.e. pictures on a camera that might had others before the roll was removed?

    Also the investigators will know if its the pad used to author the RN since impressions will be left on underlying pages.

    That's what I think the investigators are trying to establish, i.e. fabrication of a crime-scene?

    .
     
  19. singularity

    singularity New Member

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    Interesting observation. When reading the transcripts I also wondered if such a scenario was really possible. What are the chances of John taking those few pictures to finish the roll and they just happen to have certain items in them. These were supposed to just be random shots. Then there's these pictures taken earlier in the roll showing the pad in such a place that even LE can pick up on it. To even entertain the idea of someone fabricating evidence to this degree requires premeditation. This throws BDI out the window instantly. It would place certain PDI theories on shaky ground as well. It moves JDI to the top of the list and would also allow for the possiblilty of that outlandish PDI theory that she premeditated her murder for some whacky religious sacrifice or whatever which never passed my smell test. These interviews were a massive opportunity wasted. I wish the FBI could have asked these questions. I never would have moved on from this issue until she gives a legitimate explanation for any of these photographs. Saying "its nothing", "I don't know",etc. doesn't cut the mustard. Its inexcusable. I'm hoping a lot of photgraphs get shown on that series later this year.So much about this case still isn't known. One reason I could never settle on a specific theory either way...we never had all the pieces to the puzzle. I would love to see the photographs taken at the Whites. Something in those pictures does not add up. The clothing they all wore that night is brought up several times in the interviews....even to the point of asking if she wore socks which sounds absurd. BPD had the photographs taken that evening so why do they continually ask what they were wearing? They KNOW what they were wearing....there's photographic proof. LIke I said...something doesn't add up.
     
  20. Cranberry

    Cranberry Member

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    I believe it was the pen that was put away not the notepad. In the Charlevoix search warrant it states that JR handed the notepad to Det. Patterson. JR talks about the notepad at the end of the day in the 6/24/98 interview - which was the day before PR's interview about it on 6/25.
    3 LOU SMIT: If I might just
    14 touch on a couple of other things. When
    15 you, the police officers at one time asked
    16 you for a note pad.
    17 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    18 LOU SMIT: Tell me the
    19 circumstances surrounding that?
    20 JOHN RAMSEY: Linda Arndt when
    21 we found the note and she said look, as a matter
    22 of routine, I need samples of your handwriting
    23 and Patsy's, just routine, I said I understand.
    24 So I grabbed a note pad that had some of Patsy's
    25 grocery lists or something on it, and I said
    0504
    1 this is Patsy's handwriting and they grabbed a
    2 pad I had taken some notes on from a seminar and
    3 it was on the bar and I said this is my
    4 handwriting.
    5 LOU SMIT: Where, do you remember?
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: This bar.
    7 LOU SMIT: And where was
    8 Patsy's?
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: Patsy's was on
    10 this table here.
    11 MIKE KANE: Okay.
    12 VOICE: John, would you point to
    13 the bar again?
    14 JOHN RAMSEY: This is the back
    15 hall in the garage, this little sink bar that I
    16 had, the sink was right there. Pad that I
    17 picked up.
    18 LOU SMIT: Was on that table?
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: Was on that
    20 table.
    21 LOU SMIT: Okay.
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: I just gave
    23 them the whole pad. I said this is
    24 Patsy's handwriting, this is mine.
    25 LOU SMIT: Okay. Now, I am
    0505
    1 going to show you two photographs; that's
    2 number 52 and number 645, that shows that
    3 particular area. And I will show that for
    4 the camera. Can you pick that up? And
    5 these were taken again during the
    6 kidnapping phase of the investigation.
    7 Now, if you will just take, first of all,
    8 52 and tell me what you see there?
    9 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, it's the back
    10 hall. There is a couple of things over here by
    11 the stairway that would have been put there to
    12 take downstairs for storage. There's a plastic
    13 bag.
    14 LOU SMIT: Do you know what's
    15 in that bag?
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: Not for sure.
    17 LOU SMIT: Do you know why
    18 it's there?
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: Not for sure. No.



    22 LOU SMIT: Now what table
    23 did you get Patsy's pad from?
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: I am pretty sure it
    25 was this table. I don't know if that's it or it
    0508
    1 doesn't quite look like in this picture, but I
    2 think it was laying on this table. The only
    3 other place it could have been, but I swear I
    4 picked it up off this table, would have been the
    5 telephone table right here.
    6 LOU SMIT: Do you
    7 remember --
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: Not with a
    9 hundred percent certainty, but I would, my
    10 recollection is that I picked it up off of
    11 this table.
    12 LOU SMIT: Just one more
    13 question. I have got a photograph here
    14 called 17.7. Somehow this is in your roll
    15 of pictures or someone's roll of pictures
    16 from before, okay, and it shows, first of
    17 all, put it to the camera so they can see
    18 that. And I am going to show you that.
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah.
    20 LOU SMIT: Do you know who
    21 would have taken that photograph?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: It's remotely
    23 possible that I was having trouble with my
    24 camera, I think, and I don't remember doing
    25 this, but I can remember just clicking the
    0509
    1 camera, trying to see if it worked.
    2 LOU SMIT: When was that?
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: I mean, I don't
    4 know. I mean it was, you know, the only time we
    5 got the cameras out were typically at Christmas
    6 time. But this looks like the pad frankly that
    7 I gave her.
    8 LOU SMIT: Does that look
    9 like the spot where you would -- that you
    10 picked it up from?
    11 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, my
    12 recollection, yeah.
    13 LOU SMIT: So that could be
    14 the actual pad of a picture taken prior to
    15 what happened?
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: That's possible.
    17 LOU SMIT: What else do you
    18 notice?
    19 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, this bag is
    20 still there, the school bag in the corner. The
    21 toy is still roughly where it was. There is a,
    22 I think that was a Santa Claus or something that
    23 was --
    24 LOU SMIT: Santa Claus suit?
    25 JOHN RAMSEY: Suit, yeah, or
    0510
    1 something, likes look. I don't remember what it
    2 was. But that's there. Looks like it's still
    3 in this picture. This red present is still
    4 there. Day-Timer is not there in this picture.
    5 LOU SMIT: What?
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: The Day-Timer
    7 doesn't look like it's there in this picture.
    8 LOU SMIT: In the picture
    9 taken prior, the Day-Timer is not there?
    10 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. I think that
    11 is -- I think that is my Day-Timer, but I am
    12 not sure. I had one that was similar, black.
    13 LOU SMIT: You notice the
    14 bags that are in this picture dated prior,
    15 the prior one, the bags, the plastic bags,
    16 does it appear as they have been moved to
    17 you?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    19 Definitely.
    20 LOU SMIT: Do you know why
    21 they would have been moved?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: I don't know what's
    23 in there. I mean it -- there is something else
    24 of course here on the floor, looks like a
    25 stocking or something, Christmas stocking. But
    0511
    1 no, I don't. I mean I can't -- sometimes when
    2 we bag up clothes that we were going to give
    3 away, you know, that might have been what that
    4 was.
    5 LOU SMIT: That's kind of
    6 coincidental, isn't it, to have a
    7 picture --
    8 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, it is.
    9 You think this came off my camera or
    10 you're not sure?
    11 MIKE KANE: I am pretty sure it
    12 came off your camera.
    13 JOHN RAMSEY: They asked if we had
    14 any pictures of the Christmas party and I
    15 literally -- well, it's possible, because we
    16 had an unusual, an uncompleted roll of film in
    17 the camera and I think I clicked off some
    18 pictures fairly quickly just to finish up the
    19 roll, handed it to the policeman, one of the
    20 uniform fellows that was there, and they took it
    21 to get developed.
    22 LOU SMIT: Okay. So this
    23 picture here with the pad --
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: Could have
    25 been when I was just burning up pictures.
    0512
    1 LOU SMIT: At the scene?
    2 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
    3 LOU SMIT: That morning?
    4 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
    5 LOU SMIT: So it could have been
    6 taken just shortly before?
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: Right, it's
    8 possible. That I think I remember they wanted
    9 pictures of the party and I said yeah, we got
    10 'em, there was wasn't complete.
    11 LOU SMIT: So then that would
    12 show the pad in its spot that morning?
    13 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
    14 LOU SMIT: Prior to you giving it
    15 to the police officer?
    16 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
    17 LOU SMIT: That explains that then.
    18 BRYAN MORGAN: If that's what --
    19 (MULTIPLE SPEAKERS).
    20 BRYAN MORGAN: I think when did you
    21 do that?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Pretty early on.
    23 I mean, I think we very early on were concerned
    24 about the cleaning lady and the fact that she,
    25 you know, asked to borrow money and called Patsy
    0513
    1 all upset and had a big fight with her sister
    2 the day before. I mean this was just kind of
    3 like coming out, I didn't know about it, and you
    4 know, Officer French was there, we very quickly
    5 focused on the cleaning lady. I think they had
    6 a wire tap put in place, they got hold of the
    7 police in wherever she lives, Lafayette or
    8 something like that, and they got involved.
    9 So I think they wanted pictures of
    10 the party because I think she was -- she was at
    11 that 23rd party. Is I think the reason why they
    12 wanted that roll of film. As well as they had
    13 pictures of JonBenet on it. I don't remember if
    14 that was the reason or not, but...
    15 LOU SMIT: So then when this
    16 photograph was taken you think you clicked
    17 some off?
    18 JOHN RAMSEY: Uh-hum.
    19 LOU SMIT: That's why it
    20 shows the pad there and then later you
    21 gave the pad to the officer?
    22 JOHN RAMSEY: Right.
    23 LOU SMIT: Now it's a short time
    24 later then that these photographs are taken and
    25 trying to figure out why they would have moved
    0514
    1 the bag?
    2 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, there is
    3 something else laying there too.
    4 LOU SMIT: So that's a
    5 question we have to answer.
    6 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, I don't know.
    7 There is no reason I would have moved it.
    8 LOU SMIT: So that wouldn't
    9 have been three days prior that this thing
    10 was taken, but it could have just been
    11 taken hours prior--
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: It could have been
    13 that morning. Yeah, it could have been.
    14 BRYAN MORGAN: Could I see the
    15 photograph? Lou, is there any way to tell where
    16 in the sequence of the roll it was taken?
    17 LOU SMIT: On the roll of John --
    18 I am sure there is. I am sure the negatives
    19 would be available.
    20 VOICE: (INAUDIBLE).
    21 LOU SMIT: That would show what
    22 number, that's absolutely true. Now if you
    23 remember doing that?
    24 JOHN RAMSEY: I do, I think I did
    25 it, because I had to finish the roll up to get
    0515
    1 it out of the camera.
    2 LOU SMIT: Makes sense.
    3 JOHN RAMSEY: Because it was
    4 one of those electric rewinds and all that.
    5 MIKE KANE: What kind of camera
    6 was it?
    7 JOHN RAMSEY: I -- it's a --
    8 well, I am stretching if I try and remember. We
    9 got a new camera, but I think that was after --
    10 after that.
    11 VOICE: But it had an auto winder?
    12 JOHN RAMSEY: Yes, I am pretty
    13 sure it did. Yeah, I am sure it rewound or --
    14 it was one of those cartridge (INAUDIBLE).
    15 LOU SMIT: I just, if I could just
    16 -- I know it's getting close to five on our
    17 thing -- I think we came here a quarter after
    18 and the tape was put on, these are two-hour
    19 tapes, so we still have a little bit of time but
    20 I wanted to ask you a question and that's in
    21 regards to the pineapple.
     

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