Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia - #2

Discussion in 'Serial Killers' started by Aberline_1979, Sep 25, 2013.

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  1. bessie

    bessie Verified Insider

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    Here are a few questions:

    How many WS members would like to discuss the CSK case from the beginning, examining the facts as reported by LE?

    How many members are willing to drop the BF drama/conspiracy/paranoia, and comply with Websleuths TOS to discuss CSK?

    How many are willing to drop the code-speak, and write in straightforward terms (including appropriate links) so that your posts are comprehensible to ALL members?

    How many are willing to set aside suspicions about other posters, and extend courtesy toward fellow members who have no interest in your personal drama?

    I'll await your responses or "thanks", and reassess in 2-3 days.

    As I told all of you awhile back, I am trying to keep this thread open for you. That can't happen without your cooperation, and lately I've received practically zilch.

    Thanks.

    Bessie
     


  2. catswhiskers

    catswhiskers Active Member

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    Thank you bessie. I've been hanging in here for a while now - I've read the entire threads, but have to say that for the most part I haven't had a clue what is being discussed. Honestly it's often been plain creepy watching folks imply that they have inside knowledge and go as far as pointing the finger at each other. Other terrific WS members who were posting and reading here originally appear to have given up and departed the thread completely - I've only hung in here on the off chance that there will be a legitimate break in the case some day.

    <modsnip>

    ** Just wanting to clarify that my comment about not knowing what's going on in this thread has nothing to do with my knowledge or awareness about this case. I'm Australian, female, and not too much older than the Claremont victims (though not from W.A.) - so I have always known of the crimes and associated media coverage all over Australia. The posts here are what makes the thread difficult to follow and maintain interest in.
     
  3. billywhizz

    billywhizz Member

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    Apologies Bessie, but something quite unexpected happened in the thread.

    A POI mentioned in this news article (http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/wes...uest-dna-samples/story-fnhocxo3-1227168035093) began posting in the thread trying to derail discussion about Noel Coward's claims which have been left in detail on another thread on the internet on the CSK. These claims are all available to the public (you don't need to be a member to view them), have apparently been reported to police by Noel and were being discussed in this thread at the time.

    The POI, Noel and various other associates used to live at this house many years ago (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-...te-second-fire-in-myaree-in-four-days/5960520) which burnt down one week before Noel's interview with police (which is mentioned in the first article I linked).

    Noel refused to provide DNA to police during his interview. And the most recent article written on the CSK has stated that police are expecting positive developments in the case towards the end of this year due to familial DNA testing.

    There is a strong list of coincidences that extend much further, but if we are not allowed to discuss those coincidences and "sleuth" then you should close this thread down so the CSK(s) will stop getting their jollies by posting under various guises in order to talk about their crimes and provide disinfo.

    The reason no one can make any sense of the thread is because you keep deleting posts by these POI's, and the people making reference to them then come across as writing "code speak", when in fact they are the ones that have caught these persons of interest out at their games.
     
  4. ExcaliburX

    ExcaliburX Former Member

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    ExcaliburX post 10 June (#667) - which (hopefully) may provide some further clarity on parts of the above.

    "Droc appears to have made his claims for many years solely against TT with the support of his self acknowledged powerful friends (including an ex Australian senator and an eminent university professor) until he was interviewed by police in December 2014 (refusing to provide DNA and a statement).

    After the suspicious fire at his old house a week before the interview (which he did not mention in 400+ posts on BF which started later in early 2015). The fire is under investigation by the arson squad according to the media.

    And then his publicly available story changed.

    Dramatically. To group involvement.

    Including more than the three CSK murders. He alluded to the Gerard Ross, Lisa Brown and Lisa Govan murders - all unsolved homicides in WA during the late 1990's.

    With the police focus on a single perp / profile and the DNA testing of taxi drivers, I would assume that someone previously tested would be feeling pretty confident they had been eliminated.

    Until late last year.

    Police advances in DNA testing and new enquiries. Including familial DNA profiling. Presumably from someone who previously refused DNA testing.

    That POI have been subsequently eliminated through DNA testing indicates there must be associated DNA evidence.

    If multiple perps in a group situation (as Droc claimed) were involved this would negate the elimination of POI solely on DNA. A murder may be committed with two or more perps and one or more might not be stupid enough to leave DNA. Particularly if one was driving and was not involved in any direct physical contact with the victim.

    It would be interesting to review the remaining mutual friendships of Droc and TT.

    Given the vehement hatred of TT by Droc over what appears to be close to two decades and his claims that he is a SK, you'd think it would challenging to remain friends with both unless you had some vested interest in "sitting on the fence".

    Droc had some interaction with TT through social media in August 2014 (links in my first post #635) shortly after TT comments about the Jill Meagher murder case in Melbourne perpetrated by Adrian Bayley.

    The day after that social media interaction a picture of the swamp appeared in Drocs profile background (referred to in my first post #635). Very odd subject matter and timing and wonder if there was some symbolism in that exchange.

    I certainly don't have a profile background of a swamp and hopefully you don't either. Particularly when posted after an exchange with someone the day before you have claimed is a SK.

    Also very interested in the comments made in the final Droc posting on the BF thread. There has been very little discussion on that despite the gravity of what was claimed and I wonder why that is.

    As for the suspicious fire that occurred a week before his police interview.

    Powerball / lotto odds I reckon.

    Regarding a set up on the fire at his old house to indicate guilt, who knew his address from the mid 1990's?

    More importantly still, how did they know he was to be interviewed by police in a weeks time?

    Who of his friends knew this?

    Also why did Droc delete the stat dec from the BF site with the Myaree address, and probably again more importantly, why the secrecy about that address anyway (particularly when you haven't lived there for over a decade) if you had no involvement and / or that site was not involved?

    And the claims by Droc on BF about rituals and masks in the murders?"
     
  5. MyLeftFoot

    MyLeftFoot Member

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    xcaliburX post 10 June (#667) - which (hopefully) may provide some further clarity.

    "Droc appears to have made his claims for many years solely against TT with the support of his self acknowledged powerful friends (including an ex Australian senator and an eminent university professor) until he was interviewed by police in December 2014 (refusing to provide DNA and a statement).

    After the suspicious fire at his old house a week before the interview (which he did not mention in 400+ posts on BF which started later in early 2015). Under investigation by the arson squad according to the media.

    By your own admission, Droc had not lived at this address for over a decade. The fact that there was a suspicious fire at that address doesn't mean he had any involvement. Investigators would be far more likely to look at the circumstances of the current owners/tenants.

    And then his publicly available story changed.

    Dramatically. To group involvement.

    Including more than the three CSK murders. He alluded to the Gerard Ross, Lisa Brown and Lisa Govan murders - all unsolved homicides in WA during the late 1990's.

    Droc never claimed these suspicions to be fact.

    With the police focus on a single perp / profile and the DNA testing of taxi drivers, I would assume that someone previously tested would be feeling pretty confident they had been eliminated.

    Until late last year.

    Police advances in DNA testing and new enquiries. Including familial DNA profiling. Presumably from someone who previously refused DNA testing.

    That POI have been subsequently eliminated through DNA testing indicates there must be associated DNA evidence.

    If multiple perps (such as Droc alluded to) were involved this would negate the elimination of POI solely on DNA. A murder may be committed with two or more perps and one or more might not be stupid enough to leave DNA. Particularly if one was driving and was not involved in any direct physical contact with the victim.

    It would be interesting to review the remaining mutual friendships of Droc and TT - there is at least one remaining.

    That would be the responsibility of the police if they felt strongly enough about Drocs suspicions ( remember, these are only suspicions not proven fact )

    Given the vehement hatred of TT by Droc over what appears to be close to two decades and his claims that he is a SK, you'd think it would challenging to remain friends with both unless you had some vested interest in "sitting on the fence".

    Droc had some interaction with TT through social media in August 2014 (links in my first post #635) shortly after TT comments about the Jill M case in Melbourne.

    The day after that social media interaction a picture of the swamp appeared in Drocs profile background (referred to in my first post #635). Very odd subject matter and timing and wonder if there was some symbolism in that exchange.


    A picture of a swamp is of no significance. It's a swamp...just a swamp!


    I certainly don't have a profile background of a swamp and hopefully you don't either. Particularly after an exchange with someone the day before you have claimed is a SK.

    Clutching at straws..It's just a swamp! Some people find beauty in the wetlands.

    Also very interested in the comments made in the final Droc posting on the BF thread. There has been very little discussion on that despite the gravity of what was claimed and I wonder why that is.

    It's because Droc was voicing his suspicions. That's all! There is no gravity in suspicions. Only in fact!

    As for the suspicious fire that occurred a week before his police interview.

    Coincidence that it happened in that week. Droc didn't know he was about to be interviewed so how could anyone else know?

    Powerball / lotto odds I reckon.

    Regarding a set up to indicate guilt, who knew his address from the mid 1990's? How did they know he was to be interviewed by police in a weeks time? Who knew this?

    No one knew he was about to be interviewed. Not even Droc himself!

    Also why did he delete the stat dec from the BF site with the Myaree address, and probably more importantly, why the secrecy about that address anyway (particularly when you haven't lived there for over a decade)?

    Exactly. You're clutching at straws again!

    And the comments by Droc about rituals and masks."

    [B]You keep referring to Droc and TT as POI's. When were either publicly declared POI's? Never!
    Only by you on BF and WS's

    All parties and all parties claims have been thoroughly investigated. None are POI's in this case!

    If you have further information to that would change that status, please take it to SC.
    Other than that, your case is exceedingly weak!
     
  6. Aynia

    Aynia New Member

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    Everyone is doing an excellent job at trying to get this topic closed. Congratulations.
    And Bessie thank you so much for your work and patience.

    sent from my mobile using tapatalk
     
  7. PrimeSuspect

    PrimeSuspect Under the Milky Way

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    I remember when there was talk of a serial killer at large in Perth, one suspect was a guy around 30 who lived with his mother. I wonder if he suspect number 2 or was removed from the probable suspects? I think he complained about being under surveillance by the police and felt harassed.

    It's interesting that Jane Rimmer and Ciara Glennon were found in opposite directions of Perth, the killer cleverly disguising any familiarity with dumping sites.

    I wish Sarah Spier's remains were found for her families sake.
     
  8. MyLeftFoot

    MyLeftFoot Member

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    Same here....My heart breaks for that family!
     
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  9. MyLeftFoot

    MyLeftFoot Member

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    Quote from article https://au.news.yahoo.com/sunday-ni...r-will-never-give-up-search-for-sarah-spiers/


    "I have followed a lot (of) false hope," Don said.

    "And it's burned up a lot of energy."

    But one phone call in particular has stayed with him - the only one he believes is genuine - and which either came from the killer or someone who knows them.
    It was at 2am on a Sunday morning shortly after Sarah went missing. The caller asked him, "Are you Sarah's father?"

    Don won't give details of what the man said but he still believes it wasn't a hoax.

    The caller gave him a location - 5600ha of dense land and bush. Don went there but the size of the location and the dense vegetation meant looking was "hopeless".

    "I would like them to somehow get in touch with me and verify what they had to say because that has haunted me for 19 years," he said.

    While the bodies of the Claremont killer's other two victims - Jane and Ciara Glennon - have been found, Sarah is still missing.

    "I hope one day we will be able to do something for Sarah," Don said.


    I think the parcel of land referred to here is in Karnup
     
  10. MyLeftFoot

    MyLeftFoot Member

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    Going on Paul Ferguson's comments...His belief that Sarah would be found in the same area as JR.
    That area in the Peel locale is the only area of the size quoted.
     
  11. MyLeftFoot

    MyLeftFoot Member

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    Just a comment on the Gerard Ross case....It has been widely assumed that it has nothing to do with the events around Claremont....Why?
    It is assumed that because Gerard was a child, he was taken by a pedophile. This is not necessarily so!
    I understand that Gerard was not sexually assaulted but that he had been badly beaten and had a ligature around his neck.
    This sounds like enacted rage to me. Someone who may have suffered similarly at the same age and possibly Gerard was just a convenient and vulnerable outlet for that. (poor lad!)
    What bugs me is the area where Gerard was found..
    An area that has commonality to one, quite possibly two of the CSK's victims and an area that raises the question.. Why/How is it significant to the CSK.
     
  12. billywhizz

    billywhizz Member

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    This article http://www.news.com.au/national/no-...r-of-gerard-ross/story-fncynjr2-1226730066395
    says

    "Detectives said Gerard had suffered a senseless "brutal death" and that his body appeared to have been hurriedly dumped.

    They initially suspected sexual interference but later said there was no evidence of it. Still, the cause of death was so horrific that it was kept from most of the taskforce. Gerard's parents were deliberately kept in the dark."

    How do you understand how Gerard was found if his family doesn't?

    Even if true, DNA advances will eventually find something on the ligature.

    Why do you think that area is common to CSK? One victim attributed to CSK was found north of Perth, one south of Perth.

    Why would CSK then go back south again for Gerard?
     
  13. billywhizz

    billywhizz Member

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    Gerard went missing on a Tuesday during school holidays at 9:30am. What occuption would abductor need to manage that?

    Teacher? Pretty alert that time of morning usually? No work during hols?

    Or maybe night shift worker?

    Would your typical SK really be up and about at 9:30am?

    CSK victims all disappeared late at night
     
  14. Bartholemeus

    Bartholemeus Former Member

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    I think it's a real stretch.

    Serial killings, even if there isn't a sexual assault are almost always sexual. An example might be the perpetrator gets off sexually by killing, or watching someone die. So even though there may not be intercourse or other sexual interaction, the killing is still about sex/sexual desire.

    People who are into adult women are typically not into young boys. Stranger things have happened but I'd need to see some more evidence.

    Police have never linked the two cases. They would know if it's the same killer so that would mean they have chosen to keep this from the public. I'm not sure they would do that.
     
  15. bessie

    bessie Verified Insider

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    The thread is open for posting again. We'll give it one last try.

    Discuss the case, and not each other!

    If the accusations and fighting among members starts up again, the thread will be closed permanently.
     
  16. Sutton

    Sutton New Member

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    Glad to see this thread is back in action.

    Jumping off the post by MyLeftFoot that discusses Sarah's body having never been discovered--how concealed where Jane and Ciara's bodies? Were they just on the side of the road? Were they on a path or trail? Were they covered or concealed in any way?

    Who found their bodies?

    Do we know how long Jane and Ciara's bodies are estimated to have laid there before they were found (a day? a week?)?
     
  17. MyLeftFoot

    MyLeftFoot Member

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    Billywhizz....FYI http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Missing+Gerrard+found+strangled.-a061060415
     
  18. Bartholemeus

    Bartholemeus Former Member

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    JR

    - a few meters off the side of an unsealed road against a paddock fence and covered with some branches
    - discovered after 57 days from memory
    - Discovered by a iddle aged lady who go out of her husbands car to pick some devil lilies (fleur de lis)

    CG

    - 30 or so meters from the road in semi-dense scrub
    - discovered after 19 days
    - discovered by a young apprentice doing some work in the area. Think he went for a pis s.
     
  19. crabstick

    crabstick Former Member

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    Perths latest paedophile ring bust is classic group of > 8 criminals with similar interests that clustered to do some very bad things.

    I tried to post a new separate thread on this but on both occasions the post vanished.

    Interestingly one of the charged is a church pastor. A father had been farming his 11 year old child out as a sex slave. 4 million images discovered.

    This may cast a much wider net with possible links to other crimes as it develops. Its a major break through with those charged quite spread out over the metropolitan area.
     
  20. MyLeftFoot

    MyLeftFoot Member

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    That's right...they haven't linked the two cases. In fact, they've said very little about this case (as with the Claremont killings). They have however, publicly declared no link in regard to other murdered/missing women such as Lisa Brown and Sarah McMahon. There appears to be as much secrecy around Gerard's death as the three Claremont victims.

    http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/current series/tandi/341-360/tandi346.html

    Characteristics of victims

    While the victims of serial killers are diverse, a serial killer usually selects a 'type of victim' (Ressler, Burgess & Douglas 1988). Victims of serial killers have been noted to share common characteristics such as age, appearance, occupation, hairstyle, lifestyle and race.

    Overseas research indicates victims are usually young, vulnerable Caucasian women (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004). Serial killers also tend to target other vulnerable victims such as children, the elderly, the homeless, prostitutes or mentally retarded persons (Kraemer, Lord & Heilbrun 2004: 330). Victim selection tends to be based on easiest access for the serial killers (Aki 2003: 20).

    Male serial killers generally tend to target prostitutes, women, or young boys or girls as victims, usually strangers. Female serial killers generally target victims whom they know and with whom they have shared some kind of relationship, with more than 70 percent targeting family members or persons who are dependent on them (for example, patients; Fox & Levin 2005). Female serial killers commonly commit filicide or infanticide (Aki 2003), usually natural-appearing deaths (for example, poisoned infants).

    ***It has been suggested that victims are most likely spatially biased toward the serial killer's home centre. Serial killers in general target locations they know best, concentrating on potential victims within their immediate environments and surrounding areas (Brantingham & Brantingham 1981; Godwin & Canter 1997).
     
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