Australia Claremont Serial Killer, 1996 - 1997, Perth, Western Australia

[alwaysquestion]

Two Claremont Trinity bodies at 347 degrees (PMS 347) Irish Green Pantone
Other colour of the flag is Orange (PMS 151)

http://desktoppub.about.com/od/colorpalettes/ss/The-Colors-Of-St-Patricks-Day.htm

1996 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Manchester_bombing

Could you please say what you mean by "two Claremont Trinity bodies"? And what is the paint reference for? Are you implying that this perpetrator has taken into account paint colours? And what has the Manchester bombing got to do with this discussion? I see that the bombing occurred on 15 June 1996 and that is day 167 so are you saying this killer used 167 degrees for Jane Rimmer and he chose that because of the date of Manchester occurrence? I do wish you would put an explanation to some of your posts because without an explanation no one can discuss with you.

I read that Rimmer is an anglo-saxon based name and the base meaning is poet as in rhymer.

 

[alwaysquestion]

Crabstick: you wrote "just bashed and dumped". I believe Gerard was a little more harmed than just "bashed". From what I have read and what I have been told the injuries afflicted upon Gerard were so horrendous that many of the crime squad detectives were not made privy to the exact injuries and those that did view the body were totally and utterly sickened.

There is a connection with this terrible abduction and murder with previous abduction and murder victims. I will detail that when I post some of my data next week. I am still checking the detail for accuracy.

 

[Parkie]

Well my original post did not go thru so I better copy it first next time. As Stakehill Rd curves northward to the left there is a big square former pine plantation on the right by the bend. You need to be on the 3/3/2006 timeline as I can`t see it on later timelines. Basically S 32 23.171 E 115 49.374 There are 2 tracks 6 m apart going horizontally at the top & 1 going south with some pines still adjacent. Going by memory it was along the lower top track about 170 to 220 approx. metres in. Unless it was down the left vertical track as you come in but it think it`s the former. I was on my dirtbike & thought some bike rider has come unstuck & I went back to read the cross. Quite a sad case indeed. Yes Crabstick I do know about the Pantone colour match book quite well. Interesting where you are heading btw.

 

[crabstick]

So someone with knowledge of print colours would have known 347 PMS Pantone Green of St Patricks day
Cops found traces of ink at the site?

 

[crabstick]

Julie Cutler went to Notre Dame University Fremantle. Julie lived in Freo flat?

The Irish know a thing or two about brand standards. A document describing the protocol for displaying the Irish national flag calls for using Pantone colors green 347 and orange 151.

It is fitting, too, that the University of Notre Dame’s shamrock should only be displayed using Pantone 347, according to official University branding standards.

–Christian O’Schrader

 

[Parkie]

Ink on rope clue is nothing to do with G.R.

 

[crabstick]

There was ink on some rope found at one of the sites. The angle between the two bodies was 347 degrees, the pantone colour of 347 PMS is used on the St Patrick flag.
The IRA had a milestone of 70 years? in 1996?
If you read the posts, you should be able to understand.

Could you please say what you mean by "two Claremont Trinity bodies"? And what is the paint reference for? Are you implying that this perpetrator has taken into account paint colours? And what has the Manchester bombing got to do with this discussion? I see that the bombing occurred on 15 June 1996 and that is day 167 so are you saying this killer used 167 degrees for Jane Rimmer and he chose that because of the date of Manchester occurrence? I do wish you would put an explanation to some of your posts because without an explanation no one can discuss with you.

I read that Rimmer is an anglo-saxon based name and the base meaning is poet as in rhymer.

 

[crabstick]

Printers ink was found on one of the sites. A printer would know what colour Pantone Green 347 is.
Just 1996, the year was a 70 year anniversary for the IRA. Coincidental maybe. Manchester bombing was 1996. Read prior Rimmer laid in Easter lilies?

It could be a military trained person or one working with others. Hes stalking people. Phone triangulation? How does he know where people are?

The Easter Lily is a badge worn at Easter by Irish republicans as symbol of remembrance for Irish republican combatants who died during or were executed after the 1916 Easter Rising. Depending on the political affiliations of the bearer, it can also commemorate members of the pre-Treaty Irish Republican Army, the post-Treaty Irish Republican Army, and either the Provisional IRA or the Official IRA. It may also be used to commemorate members of the Irish National Liberation Army.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Easter_Lily_(badge)

Pantone Inc. is a corporation headquartered in Carlstadt, New Jersey.[1] The company is best known for its Pantone Matching System (PMS), a proprietary color space used in a variety of industries, primarily printing, though sometimes in the manufacture of colored paint, fabric, and plastics.

Could you please say what you mean by "two Claremont Trinity bodies"? And what is the paint reference for? Are you implying that this perpetrator has taken into account paint colours? And what has the Manchester bombing got to do with this discussion? I see that the bombing occurred on 15 June 1996 and that is day 167 so are you saying this killer used 167 degrees for Jane Rimmer and he chose that because of the date of Manchester occurrence? I do wish you would put an explanation to some of your posts because without an explanation no one can discuss with you.

I read that Rimmer is an anglo-saxon based name and the base meaning is poet as in rhymer.

 

[crabstick]

I'm only going on what the media said. I didn't realise the injuries were so extensive.
347 Stirling hwy is between Queenslea dve and Avion way which backs onto St Quentin

Crabstick: you wrote "just bashed and dumped". I believe Gerard was a little more harmed than just "bashed". From what I have read and what I have been told the injuries afflicted upon Gerard were so horrendous that many of the crime squad detectives were not made privy to the exact injuries and those that did view the body were totally and utterly sickened.

There is a connection with this terrible abduction and murder with previous abduction and murder victims. I will detail that when I post some of my data next week. I am still checking the detail for accuracy.

 

[hoshizora]

Which Zodiac Killer are people referring to here; there are actually two lots of serial killings called 'zodiac' in America. The east coast based zodiac killer was named because of his predilection of planning and carrying out his murders on the exact time of sunrise. Apparently at the moment the sun starts to rise there is a triangular glow at the point on the horizon and that is what this killer worked his pattern on; for the life of me I can't recall the name to describe this sunrise event but someone here might know. The 2nd zodiac killer on the west coat of America is believed to have used a symbol used by astrologers to form his dump site pattern.

I disagree slightly with your proposition Hoshizora that the "acts are opportunistic and random". The Claremont perpetrator/s actions in my view, were not opportunistic nor random. Perhaps opportunistic in that when the girl appeared that had the look and presented him with 'availability' - each girl was alone - then he would strike. I believe the terrible rapes and assault incidents that preceded the abductions and murders were the work of this perpetrator as well. All these girls were alone in that they did not have current partners. I don't consider these attacks were random either - that is I don't think this perpetrator went out on a night and during that night he decided to attack. It is my opinion he went out on each night with a deliberate and intentional purpose. The night before would not count, the night after would not count. It is more than probably in my opinion, that the girls had met this killer socially on a prior occasion. I believe it highly probable that the Claremont perpetrator 'connected' his murders and sexual assaults, so that he was able to relive and increase 'his pleasure' as he progressed - each girl was later connected. The dump site locations also form part of this 'inter-connecting web that can never be broken'. He formed this deadly pattern and it now exists for eternity. How powerful must that be to the mind of this perpetrator?

I'm referring to the Zodiac Killer that was active in the west coast. I didn't realise there was another one on the east coast.

That's fine if you disagree. We each have our own theories about what happened to these women and we're all not going to agree on it.

By the way, what rapes and assaults are you talking about? As far as I know, there is only three women police believe are connected and are the work of a serial killer - Sarah, Jane and Ciara, which is why I was curious about Julie and now Sarah McMahon is being brought up.

 

[hoshizora]

Thank you for your kind words Hoshizora. I have been told some information about a taxi driver that lived off a road in the location of where Mr Coward is referring to. That has been reported to police early 2014. I don't like the way Mr Coward has gone about things either. He has also posted a blog article online with details he should never have published. In my opinion that was a very stupid and infantile action to take with no forethought of consequences that may eventuate.

I prefer a more scientific approach to examine why the Claremont perpetrator/s chose the final locations and the relevancy to those locations of the abduction sites. I think that these are the most important and relevant considerations in this whole sad and tragic story. The locations were chosen for a particular reason I am 100% certain of that.

I would be interested to see what your thoughts are on this?

I agree with what you're saying and look forward to seeing what you post.

My thoughts? Hmm. Well, I think the police have the person in their sights, even if they aren't high up the list and that's why the killings stopped (because if they did it again, the police would definitely have their man). It's hard to know if he followed the women or not to make sure they were alone, but I tend to lean more towards the idea of him spotting a young, attractive woman walking or waiting alone and it being an opportunistic act, especially due to the eyewitnesses who saw Ciara. I don't think he focused on anything more beyond that, not their jewellery, religion, or anything else. I also wonder about his urges to kill, just because a lot of serial killers speak of getting this "urge" to kill like Dahmer, especially if it was sexual (I hope I'm remembering correctly and it was him) and I think for the CSK, it was a sexual thing considering the profile of the victims. I have no idea why he'd dump two victims so far apart except 1) maybe to make it harder for people to track his location/house. Sometimes killers have dumped bodies near their houses, so maybe he thought if he dumped them at two extreme ends of Perth, it would throw the police off guard about HIS location? 2) To make it look like two separate murders, but something obviously stood out to police about the forensic evidence that made them connect the two. Ausgirl brings up a great point about the CSK being possibly good looking and him getting them that way. I think if it was someone who knew all three women, they would've been at the top of the suspect list! The only trouble I'm having is I think these girls were very smart and I don't think they would get into a car with a stranger. Unless Perth was a different place in 1996/1997? (I was 5/6, I don't remember it haha)

 

[hoshizora]

I don't see what Pantone Green 347 has to do with any of what you're saying.

If Pantone Green 347 is used in the Irish flag when they print in Pantone colours, then it makes a lot of sense that they would use it in the branding for the shamrock and in other Irish things when they print in Pantone colour.

Colours are organised together, so greens are grouped together and most of them share the first number 3.

Printer ink is printer ink. There is a few other variations of spot colour printing outside of Pantone too. Just because there was printer ink at the scene doesn't mean there is a link to Pantone colours.

(I'm about to collect a piece of paper in six days saying I have a BA in Creative Services, so I know what I'm talking about, haha. Also, I know about Pantone colours but I didn't know that Pantone Green 347 was used in the Irish flag.)

 

[crabstick]

The 2 bodies found were laid at 347 degrees. One of the girls was taken Saint Patricks day. Pantone Green 347 is one of the official pantone colours for St Patricks day. They are patented colours for the Irish flag of sorts by the sound of it. The flag isl a tricolor
http://www.diaspora.ie/starship/2009/12/irish-flag/

If there was ink found at the scene and the person was in the print industry, they would know this information. Nothing is certain, but the bodies one were laid to go through Claremont hotel or Bayview tce.

Read the thread information please.

I don't see what Pantone Green 347 has to do with any of what you're saying.

If Pantone Green 347 is used in the Irish flag when they print in Pantone colours, then it makes a lot of sense that they would use it in the branding for the shamrock and in other Irish things when they print in Pantone colour.

Colours are organised together, so greens are grouped together and most of them share the first number 3.

Printer ink is printer ink. There is a few other variations of spot colour printing outside of Pantone too. Just because there was printer ink at the scene doesn't mean there is a link to Pantone colours.

(I'm about to collect a piece of paper in six days saying I have a BA in Creative Services, so I know what I'm talking about, haha. Also, I know about Pantone colours but I didn't know that Pantone Green 347 was used in the Irish flag.)

 

[Ausgirl]

Ausgirl brings up a great point about the CSK being possibly good looking and him getting them that way. I think if it was someone who knew all three women, they would've been at the top of the suspect list! The only trouble I'm having is I think these girls were very smart and I don't think they would get into a car with a stranger. Unless Perth was a different place in 1996/1997? (I was 5/6, I don't remember it haha)

I'm just purely speculating here.. but for all we know, the killer could have spent time inside the clubs, chatting girls up and making himself look harmless. Or he could've been a face they'd seen many times before, somewhere or other, without necessarily being someone they knew personally.

We tend to trust familiar faces.. especially friendly ones, even if we know nothing about the person. I have even speculated that the killer was a club employee, after seeing the Jane Rimmer CCTV.. incredible, that she was picked up in that few seconds the camera wasn't on her. I think that was probably just the killer's luck, though.

Going on a bit of a tangent with the Jane Rimmer CCTV here... what made me think it was someone she'd met inside the club was this:

-- she ditched her friends, then waited outside the club. Why? For whom? I think she was probably waiting for someone, she looks at her watch. Looks up and down the road repeatedly, like 'where IS he'? But she *also* watched the club door now and then, and she can be seen standing by the pole, not watching the road at all. Like, she's been told to wait right there, but not how the person would be coming, or from where. So she watches the door, and then the footpath, in case he comes from there. Watches the road, in case he's gone to pick the car up first.

My question there is -- if this is so, why on earth wouldn't she tell her friends she was meeting someone? Was he someone she knew her friends wouldn't approve of? Someone who clearly had a girlfriend? Maybe an older guy?

If it was someone who'd approached her inside. surely her friends would have remembered that and told police. So I was thinking (but seriously doubt now) for a moment there, "staff" - someone who'd have made contact, and no-one would think it was anything worth mentioning. But then, of course we have to assume that all club staff were investigated very thoroughly, and cleared. It'd be an obvious step in the investigaton, so I'm guessing the police have no interest in club staff at all.

Looking at some of the CCTV.. I notice Jane takes a long look at one guy going into the club, who is tall and dark. I thought maybe she was just checking him out, but then, maybe he looked a bit like the person she was waiting for? She looks intently, then casually looks away, to continue watching the street.

Jane's expression and body language is interesting, when approached by Mystery Man, who is also tall and dark. His hand gestures look to me a bit like supplicating, his hand is out mid-waist level, extended to her. Apologising for making her wait? Showing her something? and then she laughs widely, but her body language isn't wide open as it likely would be if she knew the person well. If Mystery Man was her killer, though, and had made only causal contact, how could he be sure that Jane would be waiting there? So if he is the killer, he would have to be the person she was waiting for. And if he is, the cctv might be showing an exchange like this, "Oh hey, sorry that took so long, lost my keys (in his hand)" and she laughs.. the footage cuts out there, sadly. But Jane keeps waiting. Only now she's definitely watching the road, looking at her watch...

I don't think she was waiting for a taxi, at any rate.

As for the printer's ink --- where has it been said by police that the ink was a particular colour? I must have missed that.

 

[crabstick]

View attachment 68171
View attachment 68172
Just in the off chance

 

[Ausgirl]

The 2 bodies found were laid at 347 degrees. One of the girls was taken Saint Patricks day.

No, one of the girls was NOT taken on St Pat's day. Why do you keep saying this, when she wasn't.

Hasn't it also been established that one of the bodies wasn't where you said it was? Or am I wrong, there.

Also, did the police release the brand of the ink used? Or the colour?

 

[crabstick]

Since when did the cops have to say it was a particular colour? Pantone Green 347 would have been one of the colours thousands of St PATRICK DAY paraphernalia was printed on for the day. The cops have found some rope and the media alluded to printing industry equipment ties.
The police have all the info top secret. As good as they can anyway. Why would you expect the police come out with a colour? Its top secret.

Probably not related but last night two 51 year old people found dead in a Perth Dianella backyard. One an ex police officer. The media have said possible murder suicide.

As for the printer's ink --- where has it been said by police that the ink was a particular colour? I must have missed that.

 

[Parkie]

What I think crabs is on about is angles to the girls locations & bearing points on a compass to there. Then they link this to printing ink due to the ink on rope clue. Then they also link this to the iona/come ancestry of the girls names. Hence the Irish background. A long shot indeed which will amount to zip imo. BTW Pantone inks are used when you need the colour not to vary at all. On say a magazine when you have a photo to print you usually use the 4 colour process; Magenta (red) Cyan (blue) yellow & black. The photo is scanned & colours are separated into the 4 main primarys (primarys for printing that is) So each printing plate has all the pixels,half dots etc (image) on it for the colour needed to make a photo image when all 4 plates are in total registration with each other.The plates are totally smooth & are chemically treated so each of the 4 plates with the image on it are treated so it will accept ink & not water. The parts of the plate which you do not want ink on, well that area is treated so it will accept water & not ink. The plate is on a cylinder. Multiple rollers transfer the ink from the ink duct to the plate when water ( with additives) is also applied. The image is transferred onto a rubber blanket, also on a cylinder. Then it will appear reversed. It is then transferred to the plain sheet of paper or cardboard. There is a 3rd cylinder. This is the impression cylinder to keep pressure on the sheet as it goes thru the cylinders. All 3 cyls are above each other. Now when the 4 colour process is used to print a colour photo it varies quite a bit as you run the job & you have to juggle the ink keys quite a bit to keep the colour steady. This was done manually years ago. Even used today but most machines now you just key in how much ink to be released onto the ink rollers from across the ink duct what you need for how much ink is needed across the plate.Now as said 4 colour process varies a lot plus you have to stop catch up (ink on non image areas of the paper) plus water marks on the image due to too much water applied. It is a balancing process for ink/water on the plate & also keeping the colour tones steady. Plus the plate image has to stay steady. It does usually. When you see news articles on Reserve Bank changes on tv often you see a feed table with sheets of multi up $100 notes running down the feed table. The sheet goes into a front lay & is then pulled into a sidelay. This is so for any possible next processes on another machine, even guillotining after so they all can use a sidelay on the same side.Or knock up side for guillotining. This is so the sheet knocks up (pulls over) & everyone can keep the image in the exact spot they want for their process in the factory on the machine they are using. Now Pantone colours are used if you don`t want colour variation as happens with 4 colour process printing. You buy the 1 kg tins (or more) all made up. Sometimes if you don`t have the correct colour you can make up a batch by weighing how much you need & mix it up with an ink knife or a mixer. The PMS book says how much grams you need of each ink to mix. Some pantone inks are used when you need bold steady inks. Gold, pink, silver metallic for example. Metallics are a pain to wash up after when taking ink out of the ducts & washing up the rollers, plates & blankets. Now would CSK lay someone down on a compass angle line, to link to a PMS colour, to link to a tradie, to link to ancestry of a victim, on a hot summers night is an extremely long shot indeed. I would love to read the odds on that. Of all the Sk`s in the world I wouldn`t have read of one who has gone to an extreme like this. 100% certain this hasn`t happened here.

 

[Parkie]

Besides, the ink on rope clue; Well the percentages are that this would be most likely black. But from what I know this clue is a media beatup. It is not the cops voicing it, it is, (was) the Media.

 

[crabstick]

Was that map/gallery store on the corner in 1996? Trowbridges?

What was the business at 347 Stirling hwy at the time? It has rear parking. Or has that address been demolished?
There is probably a good view from the train station or even through the tracks?

The Irish know a thing or two about brand standards. A document describing the protocol for displaying the Irish national flag calls for using Pantone colors green 347 and orange 151.

It is fitting, too, that the University of Notre Dame’s shamrock should only be displayed using Pantone 347, according to official University branding standards.

–Christian O’Schrader

BTW Pantone inks are used when you need the colour not to vary at all. On say a magazine when you have a photo to print you usually use the 4 colour process; Magenta (red) Cyan (blue) yellow & black. The photo is scanned & colours are separated into the 4 main primarys (primarys for printing that is) So each printing plate has all the pixels,half dots etc (image) on it for the colour needed to make a photo image when all 4 plates are in total registration with each other.The plates are totally smooth & are chemically treated so each of the 4 plates with the image on it are treated so it will accept ink & not water. The parts of the plate which you do not want ink on, well that area is treated so it will accept water & not ink. The plate is on a cylinder. Multiple rollers transfer the ink from the ink duct to the plate when water ( with additives) is also applied. The image is transferred onto a rubber blanket, also on a cylinder. Then it will appear reversed. It is then transferred to the plain sheet of paper or cardboard. There is a 3rd cylinder. This is the impression cylinder to keep pressure on the sheet as it goes thru the cylinders. All 3 cyls are above each other. Now when the 4 colour process is used to print a colour photo it varies quite a bit as you run the job & you have to juggle the ink keys quite a bit to keep the colour steady. This was done manually years ago. Even used today but most machines now you just key in how much ink to be released onto the ink rollers from across the ink duct what you need for how much ink is needed across the plate.Now as said 4 colour process varies a lot plus you have to stop catch up (ink on non image areas of the paper) plus water marks on the image due to too much water applied. It is a balancing process for ink/water on the plate & also keeping the colour tones steady.