CATCH THE LATEST WEBSLEUTHS RADIO AS WE LOOK INTO THE TERRIFYING WORLD OF MEDICAL SERIAL KILLERS
CLICK HERE TO LISTEN

Clever or Lucky?

Discussion in 'JonBenet Ramsey' started by SuperDave, Jun 16, 2010.

?

Clever or Lucky

  1. Rs were clever

    4.3%
  2. Rs were lucky

    95.7%
  1. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    It's been on my mind for some time, but MurriFlower motivated me to finally put it up for a vote.

    I've heard it said that the Ramseys were extremely clever to successfully fool LE. The counter argument is that LE was not fooled (unless they wanted to be) and the Rs were lucky to have a spineless DA, clumsy cops and money to buy powerful lawyers and heavy-hitter "experts."

    Judge for yourselves.
     
  2. Mastermind

    Mastermind New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Lucky.

    Lucky to have found the right police jurisdiction to commit this crime in.
     
  3. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I think the Midyettes would agree.
     
  4. cynic

    cynic Active Member

    Messages:
    1,652
    Likes Received:
    24
    Trophy Points:
    38
    For those looking for more evidence that ML is an incompetent buffoon, (if more evidence is indeed needed,) there is no need to look further than the Midyette debacle.
    For those unfamiliar with the case, I would strongly suggest they take a look as it sheds a great deal of light into the Boulder “justice” system.
    I agree with this bloggers view:

    The lucky couple
    Molly and Alex Midyette should get on their knees every night and thank whatever providential power they might believe in for having the good fortune to live in Boulder County. In almost any other jurisdiction, at least one of them would very possibly be in jail.
    Rather than traipsing about the Erie community while being monitored by an ankle bracelet, the suspect would be counting stale hours from the confines of a cell.
    But the Midyettes are lucky. They live in a county where the district attorney is the feckless Mary Lacy, engineer of last year’s fiasco involving John Mark Karr as well as other assorted public travesties. And so, when a grand jury under the care and feeding of her office finally got around this week to indicting the two with child abuse for the death early last year of their infant son, Jason, the most serious charge was a Class 2 felony.
    Now maybe you think that eight to 24 years, the normal range for a Class 2 conviction, minus “good time” of course, is a punishment fit for the crime. If so, you should read the grand jury’s indictment.
    There you will discover that at his death, 10-week-old Jason had more than 20 broken bones “in various stages of healing,” including breaks in his arms, legs, ribs, hands and feet. His skull had been fractured, too, with a “complete loss of gray-white interface involving the cerebrum,” which is as bad as it sounds. And he had “contusions on the right and left temporal lobes of his brain” that were “older than other hemorrhages found in Jason’s brain.”
    You will learn, too, from the testimony of an expert at The Children’s Hospital, that while many such injuries are fairly common in serious child abuse because of “abusive squeezing,” “violent shaking” or “twisting or pulling forces applied near the end of a bone,” the “hand and foot fractures are very uncommon, and are likely the result of a direct blow.”
    Only one conclusion fits this sickening set of allegations: Jason was not dropped or bumped and thus bruised and broken by accident, or even in a single violent fit of quickly regretted rage. He was roughed up repeatedly, brutally, and without anyone reporting a single incident either to a doctor or a cop.
    The only question is, by whom?
    The grand jury thinks it knows. It indicted Alex Midyette, among other things, on a charge of knowingly or recklessly causing injury to his son. Molly Midyette was indicted essentially for standing by and failing to act. So why isn’t the father facing a count of first-degree murder, for which bail could easily be denied?
    Perhaps only the prosecutors from Lacy’s office who presented evidence to the grand jury know for sure, but here’s what Colorado law says: “When a person knowingly causes the death of a child who has not yet attained 12 years of age and the person committing the offense is one in a position of trust with respect to the child, such person commits the crime of murder in the first degree.”
    Former Denver prosecutor Craig Silverman, who’s provided first-rate commentary on this case for KHOW radio’s Caplis & Silverman Show as well as other venues, tells me that “knowingly” in legal parlance does not mean intentionally, let alone after deliberation. It’s a lower standard. Which makes the failure to recommend the more serious charge even more mysterious.
    Meanwhile, in Denver, prosecutors waited only four days this week to file first-degree murder charges against a couple who allegedly starved a boy confined to a closet. The final torment of 7-year-old Chandler Grafner must have been indescribable.
    But then, so was Jason Midyette’s.
    http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/onpoint/archives/2007/05/carroll_the_lucky_couple.html
     
  5. madeleine

    madeleine New Member

    Messages:
    4,970
    Likes Received:
    11
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I can't vote,If RDI,one was clever ,the other one was lucky.
     
  6. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I knew there was a category I was forgetting.
     
  7. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Unlucky to have their daughter killed in their own home, while they slept totally unaware that she was being tortured and murdered in their basement.

    Lucky they were people of 'substance' and 'influence' so they were not ridden over roughshod by the BPD (thrown in jail until one of them 'confessed').

    Clever that they engaged skilled counsel at the outset, to save them from being blamed for murdering their child by the incompetent LE.

    Unlucky that the murderer of their child has not yet been found.
     
  8. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I appreciate what you say, MurriFlower, but that's not what was meant. You said that RDI confused you. This poll was an attempt to clarify.
     
  9. Mastermind

    Mastermind New Member

    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That actually may have been an unwise move on their part.

    The decision to "lawyer up" brought more suspicion on them and impeded the investigation even more.
     
  10. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok, maybe I did say they confused me. What I meant was that what RDI says is confusing. The fact that RDI is confused doesn't mean that I am confused as well. Clear?
     
  11. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Like glass. My point in starting this poll was to show that RDI is not confused. I just wanted to make sure you appreciated the effort I went to for you.
     
  12. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Appreciated?? Goodness me, man, I think this means I will now be forever in your debt LOL. I might have to slew a dragon to even the score!

    So far 100% reckon they're just lucky, no one has voted for clever. Let's see, can we make a list of their luck in order of importance? I'll start....

    1. Incompetent Cops
    2. Corrupt DA
    3. Stupid Coroner
    4. Superhero Attorney(s)
    5. Useless Experts
    6. ????
     
  13. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    You threw down the gauntlet.

    Which is pretty much how I figured it would go.

    I think it would be a long list after a while.
     
  14. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I never did no how!!

    You'd say that no matter how it went.

    OK, now I'm throwing the gauntlet down. We've got numbers to spare. Let's see what you got.
     
  15. WHITEFANG

    WHITEFANG New Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't forget, Simultaneous dissociation.
     
  16. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    That's certainly how it seemed. I just wanted to set the record straight. That's all.

    WRONG. If it had gone the other way, I would have been shocked.

    Cyril Wecht has described this case as the perfect storm, where every single thing went just right for the Rs. He's not alone in that assertion. I happen to think it was a regular storm, and Boulder just had a really lousy boat.

    First and foremost, they were lucky in that they had each other. Two suspects means no suspects. Each one gives the other built-in reasonable doubt.

    Second comes the DA and all the problems there: the inexperience, the lack of will, the connections to defense attorneys, the general political bent of the city, undercutting their own witnesses, ad infinitum.

    Then you have how the cops messed up the crime scene, PLUS the tendency of defense attorneys to put the state on trial. As the OJ Simpson case proved, there will be someone on a jury who doesn't like cops.

    That's as good a place to start as any.
     
  17. WHITEFANG

    WHITEFANG New Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    That's as good a place to start as any.

    Remember the excruciating pain, that is the key. SD has it and the R's never had a clue. They sacrificed their daughter at the altar of SD's musings. It is called DUAL, SPONTANEOUS, INSTANTANEOUS DISSOCIATION. The first in recorded history. And how it pains him to know they experienced this psychological phenomenon, casting all their memories of their heinous acts into the sea of eternal forgetfulness. Oh the horror he's had to endure while destroying these lovely people! We can't possibly comprehend the tribulations he suffers every time he visits us with his presence and wisdom. We should be grateful for all he endures to enlighten us.
     
  18. SuperDave

    SuperDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,263
    Likes Received:
    77
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Knock it off, Fang. It's not funny.

    YOU said that, not me.

    Tried to, anyway. Why don't you go bother madeleine? She brought it up.

    Don't give me that. I'm not destroying anyone. They don't need me for that.

    The only thing I'll say about that is that I'm sure there are people who are pleased to have me around.
     
  19. WHITEFANG

    WHITEFANG New Member

    Messages:
    1,070
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't be coy. Take responsibility. You have no evidence. You have nothing.

    And just in case you don't know, it is not funny what you have said about these people without any evidence. THEY LOST THEIR CHILD.
    YOU ARE IN PAIN?
     
  20. MurriFlower

    MurriFlower Inactive

    Messages:
    1,980
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok, we've already got the cops and the DA. So I'll just add the suspect collusion in sixth place. Not that I think that this was lucky, I'd put it in the clever basket myself.

    Ok, still plenty more numbers left.
     

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice