Closing Arguments- Chase Merritt Charged W/Murder of Joseph, Summer, Gianni and Joe Jr McStay #3

[MissJames]

Wasn't part of the demand for the affidavits that the DT assure that no other jurors were approached or contacted? That is a glaring omission.

Yes, which is why I think there will be a screeching halt to this trial until there is an investigation.
DT is well aware of the complications Judge Smith now faces.

 

[MissJames]

The more I think about this, the more I think there really may be a mistrial.
How can they possibly investigate the DT with trial proceedings ( jury deliberations) still ongoing .
There is protected work product between defendant & lawyers.

ETA : Then we have a Defense lawyer stating in an affidavit his memory of part of the proceedings is impaired . Seems important to me.

 

[Hatfield]

IMO it's time for the Judge to bare his fangs and find the defence team in contempt

This is hardly the first instance of misconduct (Mcgee in closing anyone?)

I get the argument that the defence attorneys are not responsible - but IMO they are indeed responsible for the conduct of their entire team. It was after all, McGee/Maline who brought the documentary person(s) to the Court room.

IMO it is not the Court's concern to inquire whether or not Documentary man operated against their express orders. The simple fact is that a member of the defence team is clearly guilty of jury tampering and they own that.

I totally agree.

IMO
In this particular situation, the pleading of the 5th is almost an admission of guilt. Because he is the person being charged with going against court instructions not to contact jury members.

So if he is choosing to invoke the 5th , then that is basically like a defendant who is charged with a crime and electing to not testify on his own behalf.

So he is basically saying lets go to trial about this because I aint saying anything.

And contempt type "trials" are different because the judge himself has the power and control to issue a verdict and sentence for the contempt charges in his own courtroom. That is my understanding anyway as I have seen other judges sentence rowdy gallery members on the spot for contempt due to their outbursts in the courtroom.

So the judge, after confirming with the alternate jury member(s) what happened to them, should accomadate him and declare him guilty of contempt and then administer punishment to him and/or his defense team.

IMO a likely and fair punishment for RW would be a $$$ fine, community service, or maybe even spending an evening in the county lockup along with it.

Its in the judge's hands now and I think the judge will be forced to take further action now.

For the defense team, the judge is likely to just admonish them verbally with formal strict warnings to control all their members otherwise more serious penalties would come their way too. For RW he should get a more severe penalty from the judge. Or maybe there will be a separate mini-trial before the judge declares him guilty of contempt.

I almost wonder if him breaking the rules was done on purpose in a futile attempt to get a mistrial or something.

Defense team member in McStay family murder trial takes Fifth Amendment in juror contact – San Bernardino Sun

 

[Tortoise]

Diverting a little from the current controversy, but the Judge told the jury that Merritt had burglary conviction(s) and there was no evidence that Joey knew about it.

On one level I can see that this would partly weigh in the defence's favour, because it lends to their argument, if true, that Joey gave Merritt cheques. On another level it seems to me that this could prejudice a jury to believe that Merritt stole from Joey and make a guilty verdict unsafe. After all, Merritt chose not to give evidence because he could be impeached.

Personally, I think the prosecution should ask for the Judge's recusal and file motions for mistrial and attorney misconduct, based on all the defence's shenanigans. There is no way they would have been allowed, in retrospect, to allege 3rd party culpability for these murders based on what DT produced at trial.

IMO

 

[MissJames]

I totally agree.

IMO
The pleading of the 5th is almost an admission of guilt in this particular situation. Because he is the person being charged with going against court instructions not to contact jury members.

So if he is choosing to invoke the 5th , then that is basically like a defendant who is charged with a crime and electing to not testify on his own behalf.

So he is basically saying lets go to trial about this because I aint saying anything.

And contempt type "trials" are different because the judge himself has the power and control to issue a verdict and sentence for the contempt charges in his own courtroom. That is my understanding anyway as I have seen other judges sentence rowdy gallery members on the spot for contempt due to their outbursts in the courtroom.

So the judge, after confirming with the alternate jury member(s) what happened to them, should accomadate him and declare him guilty of contempt and then administer punishment to him and/or his defense team.

IMO a likely and fair punishment for RW would be a $$$ fine, community service, or maybe even spending an evening in the county lockup along with it.

Its in the judge's hands now and I think the judge will be forced to take further action now.

For the defense team, the judge is likely to just admonish them verbally with formal strict warnings to control all their members otherwise more serious penalties would come their way too. For RW he should get a more severe penalty from the judge. Or maybe there will be a separate mini-trial before the judge declares him guilty of contempt.

I almost wonder if him breaking the rules was done on purpose in a futile attempt to get a mistrial or something.

Defense team member in McStay family murder trial takes Fifth Amendment in juror contact – San Bernardino Sun

Huge
According to the DT Mitigation Specialist, as the DT left the court on WED MAY 29th Wallace asked the group about approaching jurors for interviews .
She describes the conversation in her affidavit .
The incident with the alternates was the following day.
These are from the affidait copies posted on twitter by JDCrighton. All 3 pages attached:

 

[MissJames]

Diverting a little from the current controversy, but the Judge told the jury that Merritt had burglary conviction(s) and there was no evidence that Joey knew about it.

On one level I can see that this would partly weigh in the defence's favour, because it lends to their argument, if true, that Joey gave Merritt cheques. On another level it seems to me that this could prejudice a jury to believe that Merritt stole from Joey and make a guilty verdict unsafe. After all, Merritt chose not to give evidence because he could be impeached.

Personally, I think the prosecution should ask for the Judge's recusal and file motions for mistrial and attorney misconduct, based on all the defence's shenanigans. There is no way they would have been allowed, in retrospect, to allege 3rd party culpability for these murders based on what DT produced at trial.

IMO

Agree -hate it , but agree.

 

[Mica]

.

 

[Hatfield]

View attachment 188038 View attachment 188039

Huge
According to the DT Mitigation Specialist, as the DT left the court on WED MAY 29th Wallace asked the group about approaching jurors for interviews .
She describes the conversation in her affidavit .
The incident with the alternates was the following day.
These are from the affidait copies posted on twitter by JDCrighton. All 3 pages attached:

Very interesting in that she says she basically told him the proper procedures and that she waits till after the verdict and after jurors are released before she would approach them.

So even if RW eventually claims he didnt hear that part and didnt know he had to wait till after they were released from court duty, then that still puts him on the guilty side of things because of the old adage:

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse"

People are expected to know and follow the rules of the courtroom.

 

[MissJames]

Very interesting in that she says she basically told him the proper procedures and that she waits till after the verdict and after jurors are released before she would approach them.

So even if RW eventually claims he didnt hear that part and didnt know he had to wait till after they were released from court duty, then that still puts him on the guilty side of things because of the old adage:

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse"

People are expected to know and follow the rules of the courtroom.

I think Wallace wanted to beat her to it. Everyone else who might want to talk to jurors afterwords, too.

 

[Tortoise]

Agree -hate it , but agree.

I don't think they will ask for a mistrial because I think they would have done it by now. But if they did, the prospect of a new trial is not so daunting IMO. Pared back to what this trial should have been about and with a proper court day schedule this could be done and dusted in under 6 weeks.

IMO.

 

[missy1974]

Wasn't part of the demand for the affidavits that the DT assure that no other jurors were approached or contacted? That is a glaring omission.

We didn't get to hear anything, but this is from the reporter that was there...

The judge asked for the statements, called affidavits, from defense attorneys McGee and Rajan Maline, and from Wallace. They are to outline any advice, directions and limitations from the attorneys to the defense team, and from Wallace to explain his actions toward the two alternate jurors, and why he did it.

McStay case: Judge bars defense team member tied to film crew from courthouse for approaching jurors – Press Enterprise

I think the Prosecution will push to seal verdict again or ask for mistrial.

If the jury verdict is Not Guilty & it’s read into the record , before an investigation , that could mean CM can’t be tried again , right?

So what if there has been more jury tampering & that’s why Wallace took the 5th?
It’s a legitimate concern . JS took Wallace at his word , that no other jurors were approached.
He can no longer accept that , IMO.

Yes, JS maybe took Wallace's word for it, but at the same time, if no other jurors have come forward saying he approached them, he is taking their 'no word' for it as well. The jury also has a responsibility to report any incidents, don't they? I guess the judge could pull them in one by one and ask if anyone has approached them, he doesn't have to say what for... but I would hope that if they were approached that they would have said something to the bailiff or the court already. JMO

ETA: no idea why it broke up the quote to you @MissJames and it won't let me fix it lol

 

[geevee]

Yes, JS maybe took Wallace's word for it, but at the same time, if no other jurors have come forward saying he approached them, he is taking their 'no word' for it as well. The jury also has a responsibility to report any incidents, don't they? I guess the judge could pull them in one by one and ask if anyone has approached them, he doesn't have to say what for... but I would hope that if they were approached that they would have said something to the bailiff or the court already. JMO

ETA: no idea why it broke up the quote to you @MissJames and it won't let me fix it lol

RSBM

I was thinking the same thing, if any members of the jury had been approached, they'd likely have done what the alternates did, inform the judge immediately, and that apparently hasn't happened.

 

[MissJames]

We didn't get to hear anything, but this is from the reporter that was there...

The judge asked for the statements, called affidavits, from defense attorneys McGee and Rajan Maline, and from Wallace. They are to outline any advice, directions and limitations from the attorneys to the defense team, and from Wallace to explain his actions toward the two alternate jurors, and why he did it.

McStay case: Judge bars defense team member tied to film crew from courthouse for approaching jurors – Press Enterprise


Yes, JS maybe took Wallace's word for it, but at the same time, if no other jurors have come forward saying he approached them, he is taking their 'no word' for it as well. The jury also has a responsibility to report any incidents, don't they? I guess the judge could pull them in one by one and ask if anyone has approached them, he doesn't have to say what for... but I would hope that if they were approached that they would have said something to the bailiff or the court already. JMO

ETA: no idea why it broke up the quote to you @MissJames and it won't let me fix it lol

Hypothetically , jury tampering could involve a willing juror or jurors .
Not accusing or critiicizing this jury , just pointing out what the Judge & the Prosecution might be considering .

 

[missy1974]

The more I think about this, the more I think there really may be a mistrial.
How can they possibly investigate the DT with trial proceedings ( jury deliberations) still ongoing .
There is protected work product between defendant & lawyers.

ETA : Then we have a Defense lawyer stating in an affidavit his memory of part of the proceedings is impaired . Seems important to me.

This stuck out to me in the affidavits... not for this situation but more for appeals later if he is convicted. If he actually had a medical issue that caused memory loss or memory recall half way through a trial, how does that affect his ability to defend his client effectively? I'm more curious than ever to know what happened now lol

 

[MissJames]

RSBM

I was thinking the same thing, if any members of the jury had been approached, they'd likely have done what the alternates did, inform the judge immediately, and that apparently hasn't happened.

I don’t think the Prosecution is going to quietly make that assumption , based on their requests in the first hearing . JMO

 

[missy1974]

I totally agree.

IMO
In this particular situation, the pleading of the 5th is almost an admission of guilt. Because he is the person being charged with going against court instructions not to contact jury members.

So if he is choosing to invoke the 5th , then that is basically like a defendant who is charged with a crime and electing to not testify on his own behalf.

So he is basically saying lets go to trial about this because I aint saying anything.

And contempt type "trials" are different because the judge himself has the power and control to issue a verdict and sentence for the contempt charges in his own courtroom. That is my understanding anyway as I have seen other judges sentence rowdy gallery members on the spot for contempt due to their outbursts in the courtroom.

So the judge, after confirming with the alternate jury member(s) what happened to them, should accomadate him and declare him guilty of contempt and then administer punishment to him and/or his defense team.

IMO a likely and fair punishment for RW would be a $$$ fine, community service, or maybe even spending an evening in the county lockup along with it.

Its in the judge's hands now and I think the judge will be forced to take further action now.

For the defense team, the judge is likely to just admonish them verbally with formal strict warnings to control all their members otherwise more serious penalties would come their way too. For RW he should get a more severe penalty from the judge. Or maybe there will be a separate mini-trial before the judge declares him guilty of contempt.

I almost wonder if him breaking the rules was done on purpose in a futile attempt to get a mistrial or something.

Defense team member in McStay family murder trial takes Fifth Amendment in juror contact – San Bernardino Sun

I agree with you about Wallace and taking the 5th, it's pretty much admission of guilt, but he already admitted in court that he did approach them (if he tweets are correct). I had to go and look up what constructive contempt was because that is how it's described in part of the filing...

Direct and Indirect Contempt

Contempt of court may be "direct" or "indirect." Direct contempt occurs in the presence of the court - during a court proceeding, for example. Indirect contempt occurs outside the presence of the court.

Civil contempt often occurs indirectly - for example, when a party is ordered to turn over financial records within thirty days but refuses to do so. Indirect contempt is sometimes called constructive or consequential contempt.
Civil Contempt of Court - FindLaw

I think this is where the 'order' comes in and their argument that if there was no order, there can't be charges. Will be interesting to see what the State files in response and what the judge rules. Hoping we will find out one way or the other. I think the guy should be held responsible in some way. I am not convinced that the defense knew about it beforehand, planned it, or encouraged it, not after reading their statements.

 

[missy1974]

View attachment 188038 View attachment 188039

Huge
According to the DT Mitigation Specialist, as the DT left the court on WED MAY 29th Wallace asked the group about approaching jurors for interviews .
She describes the conversation in her affidavit .
The incident with the alternates was the following day.
These are from the affidait copies posted on twitter by JDCrighton. All 3 pages attached:

Yep, so there is no way that Wallace could say he didn't know the rules IMO Her's on top of the other affidavits saying they know it was discussed and he knew, and Geurard's affidavit saying "any reasonable person would know not to contact the jury". I really do think that after that conversation he thought he needed to get "in" before anyone else and he thought this was okay since he wasn't doing anything other than giving them a card ... again, the guy is definitely guilty of being a dumbass IMO

 

[Cricket28]

Yeah, there were a lot of references throughout the trial about the jury, public, lawyers, witnesses, family all in the same hallway coming and going at breaks, etc. Another poster here went early on @Cricket28, IIRC she had a day of sitting around lots, maybe she has some insight as well.

Sorry @missy1974 I just saw this a few threads back. Better late than never I guess.

I attended day 9 and then again on 2/7. On day 9 Maline was 20 mins. late. On 2/7 the alternate hurt his hand and court didn't start until 1:30. It took me about 45 mins to get to the courthouse in the morning. It wasn't too bad, but still frustrating to drive there and have to wait. I can imagine how the jury felt. Then it was out of their hands. Now they set the schedule. And there is no more waiting around (as long as the jury members are all on time), they can go straight in to deliberations.

MOO

 

[MissJames]

We didn't get to hear anything, but this is from the reporter that was there...

The judge asked for the statements, called affidavits, from defense attorneys McGee and Rajan Maline, and from Wallace. They are to outline any advice, directions and limitations from the attorneys to the defense team, and from Wallace to explain his actions toward the two alternate jurors, and why he did it.

McStay case: Judge bars defense team member tied to film crew from courthouse for approaching jurors – Press Enterprise


Yes, JS maybe took Wallace's word for it, but at the same time, if no other jurors have come forward saying he approached them, he is taking their 'no word' for it as well. The jury also has a responsibility to report any incidents, don't they? I guess the judge could pull them in one by one and ask if anyone has approached them, he doesn't have to say what for... but I would hope that if they were approached that they would have said something to the bailiff or the court already. JMO

ETA: no idea why it broke up the quote to you @MissJames and it won't let me fix it lol

No problem . Just focusing on good thoughts for the McStay’s family & friends today, ignoring the little things : )
I used a Blackberry way back when I joined when Caylee Anthony was missing. The forum system was a bit different , too.
I can see several issues with my own posts since I returned recently. My photos are thumbnails & I’ve double quoted.
Oh yeah, and I’m old !!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think they will ask for a mistrial because I think they would have done it by now. But if they did, the prospect of a new trial is not so daunting IMO. Pared back to what this trial should have been about and with a proper court day schedule this could be done and dusted in under 6 weeks.

IMO.

This made me think of recent comparable ongoing death penalty trials.

We actually have one going on in SC now where 5 children were murdered by the father.

I didnt follow that trial, and how long the guilt phase lasted, but even not knowing, I'm willing to bet it did not take months, and months to try. Guessing maybe 3 or 4 weeks or even less.

I do recall the verdict of guilt came in around four hours in the SC case. Now they are already into the sentencing phase.

It continues to amaze me how so many or most all other states try death penalty cases in a very timely manner with no time wasted yet in CA it's the total opposite.

If they are able to accomplish the same kind of trials much much quicker then why does it take months, and months to do the very same thing in CA?

I truly don't understand it.

Jmho