CO - Columbine High School, 13 murdered, 24 injured, 20 April 1999

[hipmamajen]

For anyone who is interested or has this channel at 9:00 pm central time (10 min) on National Geographic Channel a special about Columbine will be on. "The Final Report: Columbine". I heard on the promo something about Harris and Klebold not actually being outcasts, sounds interesting.

I recorded this on my DVR and just got around to watching it last night. I disagree with the researcher who said that they were not outcasts, though. His reasoning was that they had a group of friends, and that Eric went on dates.

I was a loser in high school. I was an outcast, and kids would spit in my hair on the bus and steal my stuff and mock everything I did and said. At the same time, I had a group of friends, I wasn't a loner. My friends were suffering the same sort of treatment I was, which in part is why we hung out together. It was a "strength in numbers" sort of thing.

I believe you can be an outcast and be treated in a reprehensible fashion by the students around you, and yet have a group of friends, too. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

I can't say if that's why they did what they did, or if that was just the rest of us looking for some sort of reason afterwards that might make a little sense. Everyone understands revenge. I just don't think that they were likely the popular kids in any sense of the word.

In all, I thought the show was interesting. Since this happened one suburb over and in the school district I graduated from, I've been following it pretty closely. I was surprised to learn that the Harris and Klebold parents still live here.

I'm not sure what to think about them. I have kids of my own so I know that you don't have complete control over them. I have some empathy for the parents. But, at the same time, how does your kid amass an arsenal and build pipe bombs over the course of a year and you don't know something's up? Maybe when my kids are teenagers it will make more sense to me.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't see any reason to make them public.

 

[shopper]

I recorded this on my DVR and just got around to watching it last night. I disagree with the researcher who said that they were not outcasts, though. His reasoning was that they had a group of friends, and that Eric went on dates.

I was a loser in high school. I was an outcast, and kids would spit in my hair on the bus and steal my stuff and mock everything I did and said. At the same time, I had a group of friends, I wasn't a loner. My friends were suffering the same sort of treatment I was, which in part is why we hung out together. It was a "strength in numbers" sort of thing.

I believe you can be an outcast and be treated in a reprehensible fashion by the students around you, and yet have a group of friends, too. I don't think they're mutually exclusive.

I can't say if that's why they did what they did, or if that was just the rest of us looking for some sort of reason afterwards that might make a little sense. Everyone understands revenge. I just don't think that they were likely the popular kids in any sense of the word.

In all, I thought the show was interesting. Since this happened one suburb over and in the school district I graduated from, I've been following it pretty closely. I was surprised to learn that the Harris and Klebold parents still live here.

I'm not sure what to think about them. I have kids of my own so I know that you don't have complete control over them. I have some empathy for the parents. But, at the same time, how does your kid amass an arsenal and build pipe bombs over the course of a year and you don't know something's up? Maybe when my kids are teenagers it will make more sense to me.

Yeah, the promo was kind of misleading IMO.

Sorry you had to endure that kind of treatment in high school. I hope it only made you stronger.

 

[hipmamajen]

Sorry you had to endure that kind of treatment in high school. I hope it only made you stronger.

I am OK today, and doing quite well. Thanks

 

[noZme]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091014/ap_on_re_us/us_columbine_mother_s_essay

Dylan Klebold's mother made the most detailed public remarks by any parent of the two Columbine killers in an essay published in O, The Oprah Magazine. She said in the essay she had "no inkling" her son was suicidal or depressed. Susan Klebold described the day of the shooting. She at first feared Dylan had been shot at school, not that he was one of the perpetrators.

In an introduction to the essay, Oprah Winfrey wrote "....I have wanted to ask her questions starting with, 'How did you not see it coming?' and ending with 'How did you survive?'"

 

[DollyPardonMe]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091014/ap_on_re_us/us_columbine_mother_s_essay

Dylan Klebold's mother made the most detailed public remarks by any parent of the two Columbine killers in an essay published in O, The Oprah Magazine. She said in the essay she had "no inkling" her son was suicidal or depressed. Susan Klebold described the day of the shooting. She at first feared Dylan had been shot at school, not that he was one of the perpetrators.

In an introduction to the essay, Oprah Winfrey wrote "....I have wanted to ask her questions starting with, 'How did you not see it coming?' and ending with 'How did you survive?'"

I can't imagine what this poor woman has gone through since that horrible day at Columbine. For all those kids to die at the hands of your son and then to lose your son too! You know...sometimes I want to just wring Oprahs neck.."How did you not see it coming"? OMG!! A mother doesn't look for things like this unless she goes searching. There were stories that he wore gothic type clothes but so did alot of kids back then. As mothers, if we notice depression in our children, we can ask them 100 times a day "What's wrong?" and 101 times they will say "Oh, Nothing?" I don't know how this poor woman has survived. How do you? I hope she had alot of family and friends that prayed for her because you know what? It never crossed my mind to pray for her....until now!

 

[amayla]

I read the article in the Oprah magazine this weekend. It was very well done and very interesting to hear her words on how she felt waiting to hear what had happened at the school and then the aftermath of everything. It must have been so difficult especially since so many people have the mindset that the parents are to blame.

 

[Disguiseduser0308]

I feel for all the parents who lost their children that day. That being said, I wonder how her sons problems were missed? Stuff like that scares me as a parent. I'd hope I could recognize serious issues for either of my children to prevent such a tragedy.

 

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

I still think that parents have a lot to do with a childs behavior. I know it must have been horrible for this lady for the past 10 years, but her child killed a lot of people. I want to know more about her parenting and involvement in this child's life before I deem her innocent.

 

[chemcopout]

i was just reading a article about this on my yahoo. i pity the mother, her son killed so many people, i wonder if he was good at masking how he felt around her; and also how involved in his life she was.

 

[ziggy]

I'm a little PO'd with these parents. Their spawn murdered many and if they had any conscience whatsoever, they would talk about how they SHOULD have known and how to help other parents discover similar things about their boys.

I am so tired of hearing - we had no idea. Well guess what? That's probably because you didn't pay any attention. I'd like for SOMEONE, somewhere, besides Mark Hacking - to just admit their culpability for once. Geez.

What I want to hear is what you could have done differntly to find out about your son and that might help one more parent.

Get over yourself. These parents have been protected more than any other perp's relatives I've ever seen.

 

[hockeymom]

As a mother of 3 boys,I'd like to think that I would now if something that bad was going on in my sons' lives,but boys are very non communicative. I have known of 2 cases over the last year where teenage boys have committed suicide and their parents had no idea the depths of their depression. I hate to say it,but parents really need to be nosey and invade their children's privacy,if they have a child who doesn't reveal much. It sounds bad,but I think its important. When I clean my sons' rooms,I look through all of their stuff. Maybe its bad,but if it saves them from being in trouble,so be it.I also ask questions all the time and network with other mothers. Sometimes their friend's mothers know things I don't and vice versa. My kids accuse us of being gossips,but thats not it,its just trying to keep a handle on the trying teen years.

 

[ziggy]

As a mother of 3 boys,I'd like to think that I would now if something that bad was going on in my sons' lives,but boys are very non communicative. I have known of 2 cases over the last year where teenage boys have committed suicide and their parents had no idea the depths of their depression. I hate to say it,but parents really need to be nosey and invade their children's privacy,if they have a child who doesn't reveal much. It sounds bad,but I think its important. When I clean my sons' rooms,I look through all of their stuff. Maybe its bad,but if it saves them from being in trouble,so be it.I also ask questions all the time and network with other mothers. Sometimes their friend's mothers know things I don't and vice versa. My kids accuse us of being gossips,but thats not it,its just trying to keep a handle on the trying teen years.

THANK YOU. My Mother used to inspect everything and go through my room - if you wanted privacy she had some good advice: do well in school so you can get a job and move out!

I don't know when all this "teens need their privacy" stuff started, but when you are the person responsible for them and it's a medical fact that their reasoning and judgment abilities are still developing - you better find out what the heck is going on in their lives.

The microscope is a powerful deterent for most. I can't say that would work for every kid, but at least you would know what you were dealing with. Social networking sites make it too easy to hide stuff from parents and the ones who will snoop are the parents based in reality and I think they are the bravest because they don't resort to sticking their heads in the sand and just hoping it will are turn out OK.

 

[drew]

I felt the same way many of you do about the Klebold and Harris parents until I read the book Columbine by Dave Cullen. www.DaveCullen.com .
There is a thread or two discussing this in the websleuths book club forum.
I give the Klebolds a slight pass on not knowing what Dylan was up to because he actually didn't have stockpiles of weapons or bombs etc at his house. Eric did. Most of the planning was made by Eric. Dylan was depressed, suicidal and a follower. Eric was a psychopath and his parents should of seen what was going on. I'm not making excuses for anyone. But the book was very informative as to what actual led up to that day. After reading it I have a different take on things.

 

[tezi]

Here is a great article by Dave Cullen. It kind of put things in perspective regarding Dylan Klebold. I don't think that Dylan's parents were uninvolved with his life. Dylan hid a lot of things from them. Now, Eric's parents knew something wasn't right with their son, he was on anti-depressants before the incident at Columbine. His father, at the very least, knew he was experimenting with pipe bombs. For that reason, I feel much sorrier for Dylan's parents.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6201221.ece

 

[MCDRAW]

I feel for all the parents who lost their children that day. That being said, I wonder how her sons problems were missed? Stuff like that scares me as a parent. I'd hope I could recognize serious issues for either of my children to prevent such a tragedy.

As a parent this is what scares me too. You see I know for a fact that the most didligent parent can still have a child go down the wrong path. My teenage son has given me quite a few gray hairs. I have a brother that is in prison. People blame my parents but the truth is they raised six kids, five of which are law abiding citizens. I have wondered why and how their parents missed what was going on. But I also know that most parents can't fathom that their child could be a killer. They may know that their child has problems but I think it would be hard to think they could be killers. I just remember telling my husband the day it occured: Can you imagine hearing about a school shooting at your child's school. You being terrified for your child's safety. And then finding out that your child is the one doing the shooting. I guess I feel for Dylan and Eric's parents because I know that I have made many mistakes as a parent.

 

[lizzybeth]

Here is a great article by Dave Cullen. It kind of put things in perspective regarding Dylan Klebold. I don't think that Dylan's parents were uninvolved with his life. Dylan hid a lot of things from them. Now, Eric's parents knew something wasn't right with their son, he was on anti-depressants before the incident at Columbine. His father, at the very least, knew he was experimenting with pipe bombs. For that reason, I feel much sorrier for Dylan's parents.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6201221.ece

I went on youtube.com yesterday trying to find commentary on Columbine. I found one video that has the actual 911 calls. If I'm correct, Eric Harris' father calls and tells the operator that he thinks his son might be involved. Other parents were calling to find out information on their children; to see if they were victims or safe. So, if that is correct, then Eric Harris' parents knew that their son was capable of something this horrific.

 

[drew]

I went on youtube.com yesterday trying to find commentary on Columbine. I found one video that has the actual 911 calls. If I'm correct, Eric Harris' father calls and tells the operator that he thinks his son might be involved. Other parents were calling to find out information on their children; to see if they were victims or safe. So, if that is correct, then Eric Harris' parents knew that their son was capable of something this horrific.

According to Cullen's book, that is correct.

 

[southcitymom]

I have tremendous empathy for both sets of parents in this case and wish them nothing but peace.

I find the opinion that these parents lack any conscience whatsoever because they aren't publicly excoriating themselves for NOT knowing what their sons were going to do extraordinarily shortsighted and more than a little dumbfounding. Very few of us here have walked in their shoes. It seems that we can learn more from them by listening to their honest impressions (even if we don't like what they have to say) than by taking them to task for not expressing themselves in a way that makes us more comfortable.

I'm with McDraw on this one. The parents are always easy targets when kids behave violently, but I know too many great, involved parents with not so great kids to toss about easy blame. As far as I am concerned, Dylan and Eric's parents are collateral damage in this sad event.

 

[shadowraiths]

I went on youtube.com yesterday trying to find commentary on Columbine. I found one video that has the actual 911 calls. If I'm correct, Eric Harris' father calls and tells the operator that he thinks his son might be involved. Other parents were calling to find out information on their children; to see if they were victims or safe. So, if that is correct, then Eric Harris' parents knew that their son was capable of something this horrific.

Well, yes and no. I suspect his call was more of a hindsight call. He hears about the shootings, which triggers him to remember Eric's behavior in the weeks leading up to the massacre. I suspect Eric exhibited behavior, that, by itself, would not lead anyone to think he planned much less would carry out such violence. However, when it happened, that behavior was something that could not be ignored by any parent who had a conscience. Mr. Harris obviously has a conscience.

I also agree with Cullen's article. The media got it so wrong. Which isn't exactly surprising. After all, they prefer sensationalism to truth. They always have. They always will. Then again, they are just catering to their audience, no? You know, repeatedly showing scenes of gore, turning the killers into celebrities, waxing poetic about goth and the TCM. We're a nation of rubber neckers, I suppose... And yet, we wonder why this stuff keeps happening?

That said, I feel sad for these two boys parents. Society is so quick to blame the parents. And yet, society is just as wrong as the media. This is not about nature *or* nurture. It's about both *and*. A family is no more of a vacuum than a person. And what that means is while nature may predispose someone to aberrant behavioral characteristics, family, community, and society at large, plays a role in which way the scales will be tilted (i.e., pro-social or anti-social). Think feedback loop here, and you may (or not) get the idea. Of course, it's far more complex than this simplistic description.

Sadly, our society has long since ceased to be about true justice and has turned into one of hatred, revenge, and celebrity. Where we turn the perps into hated icons and their victims become nothing more than faceless, nameless, props to define the perp... just in time for the next salacious news byte. Otherwise put, afaics, our society's blood lust and pure hatred seems to have no bounds. The result? Imnsho, we, collectively, are growing tomorrow's killers.