CO- Dylan Redwine, 13, Vallecito, 19 November 2012 - #47

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jlentine

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Just out of my own curiosity, how much property does MR own around his home? Is it near any state land, etc?

I apologize if this was answered somewhere else.
 

*Lash*

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I'm not SeaJay - but in my opinion, I think it depends on the LE department. We have seen some POI/suspects that were named and not arrested.

Personally - I don't think this department will. I'm not sure why? Maybe because the case is so volatile, or because it has garnered national attention, or just because this LE doesn't like to give anything away?

I sure wish they would do something though. I do believe they are working hard and they have a lot of info and evidence. I just wish it was enough so they could make some kind of official statement or an arrest or something so that we could be confident that this case is moving forward.

Salem

I would never have quessed you were not Seajay...lol. You don't look alike! :floorlaugh:

I tend to agree. I don't think this department will either. If you look at what has been released thus far, most of it has been information the family could have shared on their own. LE has not released anything that they themselves have only been privy to. In my opinion, I don't think they plan on naming anyone until an actual arrest can be made.
 

Tennlyn

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I would never have quessed you were not Seajay...lol. You don't look alike! :floorlaugh:

I tend to agree. I don't think this department will either. If you look at what has been released thus far, most of it has been information the family could have shared on their own. LE has not released anything that they themselves have only been privy to. In my opinion, I don't think they plan on naming anyone until an actual arrest can be made.

I agree. And I don't think they will make an arrest until they have the last piece of evidence they need: Dylan. :moo:
 

Seajay

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I would never have quessed you were not Seajay...lol. You don't look alike! :floorlaugh:

I tend to agree. I don't think this department will either. If you look at what has been released thus far, most of it has been information the family could have shared on their own. LE has not released anything that they themselves have only been privy to. In my opinion, I don't think they plan on naming anyone until an actual arrest can be made.

True, I guess any good police department isn't going to make an arrest until they at least have proof a crime was committed, let alone by whom. Even if they are sure a crime was committed, in this case, they are not sure which crime. KWIM???
 

Lordeebee

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I would never have quessed you were not Seajay...lol. You don't look alike! :floorlaugh:

I tend to agree. I don't think this department will either. If you look at what has been released thus far, most of it has been information the family could have shared on their own. LE has not released anything that they themselves have only been privy to. In my opinion, I don't think they plan on naming anyone until an actual arrest can be made.

BBM
Reasonable Suspicion vs. Probable Cause article:
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5003941_definitions-cause-vs_-reasonable-suspicion.html

Definition of Reasonable Suspicion

Reasonable suspicion means that any reasonable person would suspect that a crime was in the process of being committed, had been committed or was going to be committed very soon.

If a police officer has reasonable suspicion in a situation, he may frisk a suspect or detain the suspect briefly. Reasonable suspicion does not allow for searching a person or car, and is not enough for a search warrant or arrest

Definition of Probable Cause

Probable cause means that a reasonable person would believe that a crime was in the process of being committed, had been committed, or was going to be committed.

Probable cause is enough for a search or arrest warrant. It is also enough for a police officer to make an arrest if he sees a crime being committed.

The Difference Between the Two

Reasonable suspicion is a step before probable cause. At the point of reasonable suspicion, it appears that a crime may have been committed. The situation escalates to probable cause when it becomes obvious that a crime has most likely been committed.

MOO Factor:
So it seems like at the point LE served a warrant for the search of MR's home (the second, thorough search) they had probable cause that a crime had been committed. Up until then, only reasonable suspicion. We don't know if/what evidence they found in MR's home, so either LE is still at the point of probable cause, or they have reverted back to reasonable suspicion.

In either case, it would appear MR is a suspect, regardless of whether they are "naming" him a suspect.
 

RANCH

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BBM
Reasonable Suspicion vs. Probable Cause article:
http://www.ehow.com/facts_5003941_definitions-cause-vs_-reasonable-suspicion.html

Definition of Reasonable Suspicion

Reasonable suspicion means that any reasonable person would suspect that a crime was in the process of being committed, had been committed or was going to be committed very soon.

If a police officer has reasonable suspicion in a situation, he may frisk a suspect or detain the suspect briefly. Reasonable suspicion does not allow for searching a person or car, and is not enough for a search warrant or arrest

Definition of Probable Cause

Probable cause means that a reasonable person would believe that a crime was in the process of being committed, had been committed, or was going to be committed.

Probable cause is enough for a search or arrest warrant. It is also enough for a police officer to make an arrest if he sees a crime being committed.

The Difference Between the Two

Reasonable suspicion is a step before probable cause. At the point of reasonable suspicion, it appears that a crime may have been committed. The situation escalates to probable cause when it becomes obvious that a crime has most likely been committed.

MOO Factor:
So it seems like at the point LE served a warrant for the search of MR's home (the second, thorough search) they had probable cause that a crime had been committed. Up until then, only reasonable suspicion. We don't know if/what evidence they found in MR's home, so either LE is still at the point of probable cause, or they have reverted back to reasonable suspicion.

In either case, it would appear MR is a suspect, regardless of whether they are "naming" him a suspect.
I'd like to read the affidavit for the search warrant. Then we could tell what the probable cause that LE used to get the search warrant.

It may be that LE felt that Mark's house was a crime scene and not that they considered Mark to be a suspect. Hard to say. MOO.
 

Lordeebee

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I'd like to read the affidavit for the search warrant. Then we could tell what the probable cause that LE used to get the search warrant.

It may be that LE felt that Mark's house was a crime scene and not that they considered Mark to be a suspect. Hard to say. MOO.

LE also required probable cause to search MR's vehicles - that would mean they believed it probable a crime (or evidence of a crime) had been committed in one of the vehicles. You think someone else might have forced Dylan into one of the vehicles?

It's hard for me to believe that LE would serve a warrant to search MR's home if they thought someone else might have committed a crime other than himself. If so, and then LE surprisingly found evidence that MR had committed a crime, MR would have grounds for a lawsuit and would most likely get off on a technicality.

I agree that our lack of knowledge regarding LE's findings make just about everything we say here conjecture - all we have is what makes sense to us personally - and LE combing through MR's home and vehicles leads to believing that they had probable cause that MR had involvement in a crime.
MOO
 

SCHMAE

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Just out of my own curiosity, how much property does MR own around his home? Is it near any state land, etc?

I apologize if this was answered somewhere else.

Are you talking acreage that the home sits on ? It does not look like a really large lot . There is also a home down the way that he owns in a neighborhood.
 

Seajay

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I'm not SeaJay -

Salem

snipped by me. So I can give up on the idea we were twins separated at birth??? :(

Thanks for answering that BTW. Some PD's do and some don't. This one hasn't released much of anything.

Ever since the Casey Anthony case, LE has been really careful about what they release to the media. IMO.
 

RANCH

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LE also required probable cause to search MR's vehicles - that would mean they believed it probable a crime (or evidence of a crime) had been committed in one of the vehicles. You think someone else might have forced Dylan into one of the vehicles?

It's hard for me to believe that LE would serve a warrant to search MR's home if they thought someone else might have committed a crime other than himself. If so, and then LE surprisingly found evidence that MR had committed a crime, MR would have grounds for a lawsuit and would most likely get off on a technicality.

I agree that our lack of knowledge regarding LE's findings make just about everything we say here conjecture - all we have is what makes sense to us personally - and LE combing through MR's home and vehicles leads to believing that they had probable cause that MR had involvement in a crime.
MOO
I'm not saying that LE doesn't think that Mark's a suspect. I just think that there may be more than one reason for getting the search warrant. If the search warrant is worded properly LE would be allowed to collect any evidence that would help in finding out what happened to Dylan no matter who was responsible.

It would be nice to see the actual search warrant and the receipt of what was taken during the search. Then we could maybe draw some conclusions. MOO.
 

NC Analyzer

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I'm not saying that LE doesn't think that Mark's a suspect. I just think that there may be more than one reason for getting the search warrant. If the search warrant is worded properly LE would be allowed to collect any evidence that would help in finding out what happened to Dylan no matter who was responsible.

It would be nice to see the actual search warrant and the receipt of what was taken during the search. Then we could maybe draw some conclusions. MOO.

Funny thing about that "probable cause" warrant. It obviously wasn't served on anyone else in this case when/if they were merely "collecting evidence" to find out what happened to Dylan.
When LE serves a warrant on someone, we really need to pay close attention. No judge is going to sign off on a warrant just for the fun of it. That alone speaks volumes.
 

RANCH

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Funny thing about that "probable cause" warrant. It obviously wasn't served on anyone else in this case when/if they were merely "collecting evidence" to find out what happened to Dylan.
When LE serves a warrant on someone, we really need to pay close attention. No judge is going to sign off on a warrant just for the fun of it. That alone speaks volumes.

It doesn't surprise me that LE got a search warrant for Mark's house and his vehicles. At the same time it doesn't tell me a whole lot either. Evidence that was collected and later tested may tell us something. Or maybe LE came up empty with that also. Hard to say at this point. MOO.
 

azgrandma

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I think if LE had more, they'd have named him a POI or suspect. I'm sure they are watching him closely.

I just don't see him being smart enough to hide a body this long, not after all this time.

If Dylan is not in the lake, I wonder where LE would look next??? Mines? The campground? Or will the sit back and wait for hikers or hunters to find him??? JMO, IMO.

I watched a show on Investigation ID (of course) where a female Marine went missing, she had told a friend that she was getting divorced from her husband and I believe he was ex-military. They never found her body but he went to prison for her murder. What they think happened was that he killed her (no evidence at home) took her body in his gf's car which he detailed for her, took her to I think it was PA, and dropped her in a mine shaft & blew her up. They had over 300 marines searching for her body around area that was full of mine shafts, never to find her. The reason the thought he blew her up was because he asked his brother, who was in the military, if he had explosives.
Sometimes a body is never found, that makes me sick! But at the sametime, it doesn't mean that they get away with it. I don't think it has anything to do with being smart, it has more to do with being lucky (the perp having luck). I also don't think or believe that LE would ever name someone a POI or suspect until after the arrest in this case.
 

RANCH

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I watched a show on Investigation ID (of course) where a female Marine went missing, she had told a friend that she was getting divorced from her husband and I believe he was ex-military. They never found her body but he went to prison for her murder. What they think happened was that he killed her (no evidence at home) took her body in his gf's car which he detailed for her, took her to I think it was PA, and dropped her in a mine shaft & blew her up. They had over 300 marines searching for her body around area that was full of mine shafts, never to find her. The reason the thought he blew her up was because he asked his brother, who was in the military, if he had explosives.
Sometimes a body is never found, that makes me sick! But at the sametime, it doesn't mean that they get away with it. I don't think it has anything to do with being smart, it has more to do with being lucky (the perp having luck). I also don't think or believe that LE would ever name someone a POI or suspect until after the arrest in this case.
Years ago I read a book called Corpus Delicti . It's about the first "no body" conviction of murder case in the US. It was fascinating in the fact that L. Ewing Scott was convicted only using circumstantial evidence and with no body being found. This was in the 1950's so a lot of the modern forensic's used today were not available. It took several years before the case was settled but it shows that it is possible to get a conviction without a body.

I hope that Dylan is found but I also hope that justice is served.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Leonard_Ewing_Scott"]Robert Leonard Ewing Scott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 

azgrandma

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Years ago I read a book called Corpus Delicti . It's about the first "no body" conviction of murder case in the US. It was fascinating in the fact that L. Ewing Scott was convicted only using circumstantial evidence and with no body being found. This was in the 1950's so a lot of the modern forensic's used today were not available. It took several years before the case was settled but it shows that it is possible to get a conviction without a body.

I hope that Dylan is found but I also hope that justice is served.

Robert Leonard Ewing Scott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scary how far science has come throughout the years. Interesting but scary.
 

margarita25

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I'm a diver. If you guys really believe there is still a chance he is in that lake, I might poooooossibly consider diving there as soon as it warms up, maaaaaayyyybe. No promises.

Can someone please link me everything about this lake as related to Dylan? That would be great bc there are so many posts and threads here to sift through. Thank you....And why hasn't he been found yet if he's there? If someone can pls give me a lowdown on the lake situation (synopsis of the lake searches conducted so far, etc.) that would be great. Thanks.
 

SmoothOperator

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*Being the parent with whom the child is in the full custody/care of at the time the child "disappears", does not indicate his involvement in his son, Dylan's "disappearance".

*Being that there is a definite and sudden halt to any/all communication with Dylan permanently within mere hours of having been picked up into his father's custody, does not indicate his involvement...

*Being a controlling individual does not indicate his involvement...

*Having a criminal history involving domestic abuse and violence, does not indicate his involvement...

*Displaying actions/behaviors that are not consistent with his youngest son's having literally "vanished" from the face of this earth, does not indicate his involvement...

*Having FAILED a LE administered polygraph does not indicate his involvement...

*Being the last person with the victim, does not indicate his involvement...

* MAKING DISPARAGING COMMENTS ABOUT HIS EX WIFE/SON'S TIRELESS EFFORTS OF CONTINUING THE NON-STOP SEARCH FOR FINDING DYLAN, does not indicate his involvement...

*Making inconsistent and even often contradictory statements regarding his account of hours leading up to, and after the "disappearance" of his son, does not indicate his involvement...

*Agreeing to a scheduled polygraph administered by retired FBI polygrapher and then knowingly indulging in hard liquor within mere hours of that scheduled LDT, does not indicate his involvement...

*Choosing to lay down for an afternoon snooze after returning home to find his son(who was expected to be there), nor his belongings anywhere in sight, does not indicate his involvement...

*There being a completely separate account that backs up/supports the abuse, control, and history of being non compliant in returning the minor children to their mother[AZG] , does not indicate his involvement...

*All of his adult son's being disconnected from his life, does not indicate his involvement..

*One of his grown adult son's publicly stating that Mark had more than once hidden he and Dylan from their mother, does not indicate his involvement..

*A grown adult son publicly stating that he believes his father is responsible for the "disappearance" of Dylan, does not indicate his involvement..

*Having the extremely recent and drastic court ordered change regarding custody/support decided in ER's favor allowing her to move Dylan more than 5hours away, not only terminating his receiving a monthly check due to ER being the breadwinner btwn the two, but the courts actually ruling that he was to now pay ER monthly child support payments, does not indicate his involvement...
----------------------------------------------------
While some of the ^above^ numerous factors are concerning and/or disturbing EVEN when looking at them each, separate from one another.. however each alone and by themselves do not necessarily indicate his involvement in his son, Dylan's "disappearance". This is repeated time after time after time amongst the discussions about the multitude of factors WRT Mark Redwine..

When viewing this multitude of factors TOGETHER as a whole..because that's reality, that it is the sum total of all the factors, NOT JUST EACH INDIVIDUAL FACTOR STANDING ALONE..

These factors do NOT stand alone.. and there is not just one, or two, or three of these concerning/disturbing factors that one can realistically excuse and explain their existence.. There is an entire multitude of these concerning factors AND its IMO unrealistic that its necessary to assign excuses and explanations for all of them.. IMO once into factors six, seven, or eight the necessity for explanations becomes no longer realistic.. yet they continue to mount well into the double digits ... eleven, twelve, thirteen??...nope, it doesn't even stop there as it literally continues to mount higher and higher nearing twenty in my just listing the ones that IMMEDIATELY come to mind..

When looking at all of the factors concerning Mark Redwine IMO I come to what IMO is a logical conclusion..
With the possibility threshold surpassed IMO, and the plausibility threshold having been surpassed, IMO brings about the probability of Mark Redwine's involvement in his son, Dylan's "disappearance". NOTE that this is MOO!!

There is a reason why Mark Redwine is on so many radars and that reason has nothing to do with a bandwagon, a lynch mob mentatility, or anything to do with confirmation bias, nor does it have a thing to do with the court of public opinion convicting, judging, and sentencing this man..

No one here has rushed to judgement and no one here is discussing terms of guilt and innocence as are set forth by our courts of law... Websleuths is NOT a court of law and tho, WS standards are IMO rightfully high in what/who is allowed for discussion, therefor IMO all the more reinforcing the fact that THERE is good reason Mark Redwine is under the microscope of so many, there is good reason why WS has allowed for Mark Redwine to be sleuthed and discussed WRT to his possible involvement, and one need not look any farther than the long list of legitimate reasons listed above to begin to understand EXACTLY WHAT AND WHY MARK REDWINE IS PRIME SUSPECT NUMBER 1 IN MANY PEOPLE'S VIEW/OPINION..

MOO is that Mark Redwine is also LE prime suspect, number one as well.. as is stated in the OPs of each of Dylan's threads it is a known fact that LE very rarely PUBLICLY name their prime suspects and POIs and there are extremely relevant and accurate reasons for why they do not that has been discussed at great lengths throughout Dylan's threads..

IMO its OK if you<**disclaimer** YOU in GENERAL, not PERSONAL**> do not think or want to believe that this father could have hurt, harmed, or killed his son..I understand that, respect that, and its your<**disclaimer** YOUR in GENERAL, not PERSONAL**> prerogative to be of that mindset and opinion.. But there are very legitimate, rational, relevant issues that IMO demand for Mark Redwine to be looked at extremely hard as the prime suspect at this time...

Jmo regarding Mark Redwine's being under the microscope for legitimate cause/reason that is BACKED UP AND SUPPORTED by an entire plethora of relevant, rational factors.
 

TxLady2

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I would never have quessed you were not Seajay...lol. You don't look alike! :floorlaugh:

I tend to agree. I don't think this department will either. If you look at what has been released thus far, most of it has been information the family could have shared on their own. LE has not released anything that they themselves have only been privy to. In my opinion, I don't think they plan on naming anyone until an actual arrest can be made.

Unless they're keeping something a big secret, I don't think they will arrest anybody till they figure out what the crime is. To my knowledge, there is no evidence of murder, no proof that he was kidnapped, no proof that he ran away. And if they had found enough forensic evidence in the house or the truck to indicate foul play, then I think they would have done so by now.

I guess they could arrest him on suspicion, but they could only hold him for a few days and then unless they have probable cause to charge him with a crime, they would have to turn him loose. It's 72 hours here in Tx, don't know what the law in CO is, but it could be the same.
 

RANCH

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I'm a diver. If you guys really believe there is still a chance he is in that lake, I might poooooossibly consider diving there as soon as it warms up, maaaaaayyyybe. No promises.

Can someone please link me everything about this lake as related to Dylan? That would be great bc there are so many posts and threads here to sift through. Thank you....And why hasn't he been found yet if he's there? If someone can pls give me a lowdown on the lake situation (synopsis of the lake searches conducted so far, etc.) that would be great. Thanks.

I'm not sure if Dylan is in the lake or not myself. La Plata county sheriff spokesman Dan Bender has minimized HRD dog alerts at the lake by saying that they could be caused by deer or elk.
It wasn't clear whether the smell they detected Saturday and again Sunday morning at the south end of the lake had anything to do with the youngster, said La Plata Sheriff's Office spokesman Dan Bender.

"We had two of the dogs alerted on the surface of the lake. It could be a submerged deer or elk or something else," Bender said.

His reasoning for saying this has me baffled because it just doesn't make sense.

And we have this report saying that there giving up on searching the lake.
La Plata County Search and Rescue K-9s flagged an area on the southern end of Vallecito Lake on Saturday and again on Sunday, prompting scuba divers from the New Mexico State Police to search the area. But the lake search ended "after extensive sonar sweeps found nothing," according to a press release from the sheriff's office.

No further dives of the lake bottom or field searches are planned unless there are new leads, police said.

And in February a group called K9 Forensics said that they also got HRD dog alerts at Lake Vallecito.

According to K9 Forensics of Edgewood, a group that volunteered to help search for the missing 14-year-old, two cadaver dogs picked up a scent in the same place after holes were punched in frozen Vallecito Lake, which has been a focal point of the three-month search.

I'm guessing that these dog alerts are valid and they are alerting to human remains in the lake. Is it Dylan? I don't know.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22063185/sunday-search-launched-missing-boy-laplata-county

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-suspended-as-lake-sweep-yields-no-clues?lite

http://kdvr.com/2013/02/27/dylan-redwines-family-appears-on-dr-phil-dogs-find-scent-on-lake/
 
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