CO - Dylan Redwine - Forensics Discussion- *WARNING!* MAY INCLUDE GRAPHIC DETAILS

[cattlekate]

Would be weird to find shoelaces in that area that were unrelated though, wouldn't you think?

Bender said they were done searching, and the area is not cordoned off as a crime scene.

If LE is keeping back information about additional remains, they certainly could not hold those remains back secretly when they release the body for burial, right? So I guess we would know for sure when/if it gets announced that the family will be receiving the remains for burial.

I do not believe the evidence will be released for burial anytime soon. It is a homicide.

 

[Betty P]

I was wondering if it might be helpful to compare this poor child's case to that of billionaire pilot Steve Fossett.

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Fossett"]Steve Fossett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

For those who may not be familiar with the story, Fossett went missing while on a short flight in an experimental aircraft, never returning to the exclusive private airport owned by his friends. Two years later, in September 2008, a hiker found a wallet with money and Fossett's ID in it on a slope in the Sierra Mountains, along with a jacket he'd been wearing. Fossett was found shortly after, his body and plane were at about 10,100 feet.

It took a while to find Fossett's remains as searchers were hampered by the onset of winter weather. They were scattered due to animal predation.

On October 29, search teams recovered two large human bones that they suspected might belong to Fossett. These bones were found 0.5 miles (0.8 km) east of the crash site.[85] Tennis shoes with animal bite marks on them were also recovered. On November 3, California police coroners said that DNA testing of the two bones by a California Department of Justice forensics laboratory confirmed a match to Fossett's DNA. Madera County Sheriff John Anderson said Fossett would have died on impact in such a crash, and that it was not unusual for animals to drag remains away.

Fossett's case and Dylan's have some similarities WRT exposure to weather, altitude and terrain. If anyone is interested, it might be helpful to study more of the details of his case to compare with Dylan's and what happens when a body of a person who died an accidental death is left exposed for a long period of time.

 

[Ghostwheel]

I was wondering if it might be helpful to compare this poor child's case to that of billionaire pilot Steve Fossett.

Steve Fossett - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For those who may not be familiar with the story, Fossett went missing while on a short flight in an experimental aircraft, never returning to the exclusive private airport owned by his friends. Two years later, in September 2008, a hiker found a wallet with money and Fossett's ID in it on a slope in the Sierra Mountains, along with a jacket he'd been wearing. Fossett was found shortly after, his body and plane were at about 10,100 feet.

It took a while to find Fossett's remains as searchers were hampered by the onset of winter weather. They were scattered due to animal predation.



Fossett's case and Dylan's have some similarities WRT exposure to weather, altitude and terrain. If anyone is interested, it might be helpful to study more of the details of his case to compare with Dylan's and what happens when a body of a person who died an accidental death is left exposed for a long period of time.

It would be fascinating to find out if being left out in the elements for 7 months would be drastically different from being left out for 2 years. Do animals drag remains a certain distance, then come back and move them again? Could this happen several times over the course of months, or just seasons? Or do they just get taken to a certain area, consumed, then left?

 

[Betty P]

It would be fascinating to find out if being left out in the elements for 7 months would be drastically different from being left out for 2 years. Do animals drag remains a certain distance, then come back and move them again? Could this happen several times over the course of months, or just seasons? Or do they just get taken to a certain area, consumed, then left?

I'm not sure, its possible they could be moved more than once, though it doesn't seem likely that would happen with clothing, shoes, etc.

According to this article (and news was sketchy about Fossetts recovery, there weren't many people who could reach the area) the bones that were found that eventually were ID'd as his were about half a mile from the crash site. Other reports said "near" not saying how near.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7707397.stm

The bones were found last Wednesday 0.5 miles (0.8km) east of a crash site in isolated eastern California.

Fossett's shoes and driver's licence were also found. Both showed evidence of animal bite marks, police said.

IIRC, the bones and clothing/ID/cash were not found together.

 

[Tink56]

I'm not sure, its possible they could be moved more than once, though it doesn't seem likely that would happen with clothing, shoes, etc.

According to this article (and news was sketchy about Fossetts recovery, there weren't many people who could reach the area) the bones that were found that eventually were ID'd as his were about half a mile from the crash site. Other reports said "near" not saying how near.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7707397.stm



IIRC, the bones and clothing/ID/cash were not found together.

You're right about the bones and clothing, etc.

Interesting stuff...Here's a couple of other articles..

http://adventure.nationalgeographic.com/2008/11/special-report/steve-fossett/james-vlahos-text

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ound-in-wreckage-of-Steve-Fossetts-plane.html

 

[Dr. Know?]

30 seconds in on this video is interesting with the large inground concrete culvert they use for drainage. It appears to be picked clean of vegetation possibly. Might be why they know Dylan had to be placed there or not. Start at 30 seconds or so. hth

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/06/28/dylan-redwines-father-i-want-to-know-what-happened-to-my-son/

 

[Eileen730]

30 seconds in on this video is interesting with the large inground concrete culvert they use for drainage. It appears to be picked clean of vegetation possibly. Might be why they know Dylan had to be placed there or not. Start at 30 seconds or so. hth

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2013/06/28/dylan-redwines-father-i-want-to-know-what-happened-to-my-son/

Could it be that mark laid the pipe that's there? Is this the type of work he did..... Or delivered the drainage pipes to that area? If so he would be well aware of the area!

 

[sayd]

So, since this thread is posted as graphic, I will add this. I once watched two very large coyotes kill a very large jack rabbit. To my complete surprise they started eating the head first. Crunch, crunch, they swallowed bone and all very quickly. The only reason I am posting this is earlier in the thread people were indicating that the skull should have been left from the animal scavenging. I don't see that as likely at all. Coyotes aren't terribly discriminating...

 

[*Lash*]

I think that the way a shoelace is handled over and over by the person tying their own shoes, Dylan's DNA would likely be embedded in the porous fabric. I can imagine that there would also be other DNA sources such as blood, bits of flesh or decomposition fluids, depending upon how the lace was used if it was taken from the shoe for binding or strangling. If you have ever examined a broken lace, you might remember that they are sometimes made of a flattened tube of fabric or more often, woven around a core. Lots of little crevices to catch bits of skin or absorbed fluids. Could be killer DNA hiding in there too

MOO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you TGI - I had not considered traces of DNA could be found on a shoelace. Now it really makes me think how important the shoelace may be.

 

[*Lash*]

I think the NecroSearch International team was able to assist LE in many ways. They appear to be an awesome group with many experts in different fields. I posted this in the search thread. I thought it would be useful here too. LE had put together a great search team. The website provides further information on each of the methods used by NecroSearch.

Methods used by NecroSearch International​

-Animal Sign and Scavenging
-Human and Nonhuman Bone Identification
-Botany
-Hydrology
-Meterology
-Geology
-Geophysics
-Computer Analysis of search area data
-Scent Detection Dogs
-Entomology
-Search Techniques
-Excavation Methods

http://www.necrosearch.org/methods.html

 

[SCHMAE]

I'm not sure if this question is forensic in nature, but we don't have a lot of options for posting this morning
Could Dylan have been left higher up the mountain and snow melt placed him in that low lying ditch area ?

 

[margarita25]

Yes, they would scavange (like a wolf). They like the leftovers from other animals and will sometimes scare off other animals for their kill.

I am concerned that his skull was not found.

I wonder if they have checked for dens in the area. There would be biologists that could help them find the dens. Again, I would check the coyote dens and look for where the lions are staying vs bears.

Good thought. I heard a story of a local girl who searched the dens for evidence of her cat and found its collar.

 

[margarita25]

Is it possible that the forensic teams found a "death outline" somewhere during their search, which might lead them to believe that the body was initially intact?

Wow, thanks for this info.

I'm also wondering if they've found an area which is physically dug up / disturbed as to indicate if Dylan might have been initially buried before the animals scavenged.

 

[carbuff]

I'm not sure if this question is forensic in nature, but we don't have a lot of options for posting this morning
Could Dylan have been left higher up the mountain and snow melt placed him in that low lying ditch area ?

I don't know about the specific location or situation, but in general that sounds like something that's possible.

In some of our UID cases, only a skull is found; because it's harder and heavier it tends to survive more environmental stress and not move as far from its original location. I would expect them to be looking uphill and upstream...

 

[ColdHands]

Just occurred to me, the shoelaces might have been used as a garrote
I don't think that would be easy to prove, given the physical remains we've been told about.

 

[mrsward]

Does anybody know if the bones and items have been found together ? Seems strange to have shoe laces but no shoes..could be that someone has been placing the items in that spot.

 

[Ghostwheel]

Having shoelaces and no shoes makes me think back to the abductor theory as well as the father did it theory. Why would there be shoelaces and no shoes. As was posted on some thread somewhere, perhaps Dylan carried his shoelaces in his pocket and left his shoes open (some kids do that). Or perhaps the laces were just loose, and the shoes kind of open and an animal or bird took the laces for a nest. Or maybe there were just pieces of laces found (we don't know how much they found).

Other alternatives: used as a garrotte as posted above
Used to tie hands and/or legs.
Used as a tourniquet (slipped, fell, cut an artery)
Used to tie something on to something else (like if carrying a water bottle slung on a shoulder)

Of course, I wouldn't be hiking with no shoelaces, though, even if I didn't want to carry the water bottle.


Other reason why there would be shoe laces and no shoes?

 

[CHERIE.T]

Maybe Dylan wasn't wearing his shoes, if he was laying on the couch and the shoe lace is not related to the case at all. I mean how do you narrow down a shoelace?

Nowadays kids often loosely weave their shoestrings instead of lacing them. imo

 

[northxnorthwest]

Just throwing this out there but sometimes guys or younger teenage boys wear a single shoelace as a belt (idk if two at a time I've usually just seen 1 but it's possible maybe 2 as more support?). It's kind of trendy or a style thing but I also know its also way more comfortable for skating because no belt buckles and its really thin.

But I think the shoelaces were just ripped up out of the shoes

 

[asyousay]

I think with only 2% found of Dylan that not finding his trainers is not astounding . We don't even know if this is where parts of Dylan was just found . His original place could of been miles away if animals got at him. Mark was cruel for coming out with this details hours after the news was broken but he i assume he ia correct in saying "Dylan is scatted all over middle mountain " that would include his clothing i would assume IMO.