CO - Dylan Redwine missing from Vallecito ***SEARCH DISCUSSION ONLY***

[catswhiskers]

I can see that the lake would be an ideal focus for many - it's a defined area and who knows what secrets are submerged in its depths. But in a wilderness area is it really the only possibility, or the most likely to be chosen by a predator/killer? The number of other areas that are off the beaten track and rarely, if ever visited by others would be huge IMO. The lake would almost be too obvious in comparison I think.

On the other hand I can also see why LE could almost downplay any suspicions they might have about the lake, and even the hits from dogs, until they can actually access the lake. Perhaps it's out of kindness to the family (who are already suffering unimaginably I know)?? It seems cruel to tell any family that they think they know where their loved one is, but they will have to wait months to confirm until warmer temperatures allow them to dive.

LE may even be worried that the public would be whipped into even more of a frenzy and take matters into their own hands - not only with regards to the person they believe is responsible, but also by attempting to access the lake themselves or something like that?
:moo:

 

[Redhead72]

I can see that the lake would be an ideal focus for many - it's a defined area and who knows what secrets are submerged in its depths. But in a wilderness area is it really the only possibility, or the most likely to be chosen by a predator/killer? The number of other areas that are off the beaten track and rarely, if ever visited by others would be huge IMO. The lake would almost be too obvious in comparison I think.

On the other hand I can also see why LE could almost downplay any suspicions they might have about the lake, and even the hits from dogs, until they can actually access the lake. Perhaps it's out of kindness to the family (who are already suffering unimaginably I know)?? It seems cruel to tell any family that they think they know where their loved one is, but they will have to wait months to confirm until warmer temperatures allow them to dive.

LE may even be worried that the public would be whipped into even more of a frenzy and take matters into their own hands - not only with regards to the person they believe is responsible, but also by attempting to access the lake themselves or something like that?
:moo:

I can definitely see the way you are viewing the lake as well, and there are definitely many other places that may have been a better choice for concealment - if the person who hid poor Dylan truly didn't want him to be found... However, I am also reminded of the story "The Purloined Letter", and the fact that sometimes the easiest place to hide something is in plain sight... It's all MOO of course, but even if MR isn't involved, it seems he believes something is tied to the lake, or at the lake as well. But that's speculation and not focusing on search topics if I get further into that...

I don't know about the accident/drowning rates for the Vallecito Lake/Reservoir, either. If it was someone familiar with the lake itself, it may be that they thought a body would be discovered much quicker, but didn't take into account the cold water temps, and the like... There has been a lot of speculation as to why someone would want the body found quickly, but again a lot of that is tied to the "who" part of this crime, and motive - or lack of one...

As for the LE not telling the family, no matter what the LE have said to them, it seems that ER, CR, and even MR believe the lake is crucial. They've been waiting all winter, regardless of what the LE told them or not. They may have downplayed the hits by the dogs to appease the public, because many people just aren't too realistic about what can or should be done in these cases... They would likely come under some pretty heavy scrutiny if they came out and said, "we believe he is in there, but we can't get him till Spring", even if there really is no way to safely recover anything until that time. Even here people weren't clear about why the water search was so hard, and lasted such a short time...

I do think that it's extremely unfortunate that an official search warrant wasn't executed for quite some time at MR's. Even if he wasn't involved precious clues, and such could have been tampered with or destroyed - again, even if MR wasn't involved, he could have done so accidentally.

[As I've stated, I do believe MR knows more than he is letting on, and that further searching may be a waste of time, at least until the lake can be ruled out. However, for this search thread I'm trying to suspend my beliefs and branch out a bit... Although I admit my bias is hard to overcome at this point. ]

As always, all of the above is MOO! :cow:

 

[Ransom]

Just something to ponder ... in a sad way.

The vultures have returned. They migrate south for the winter around the end of Sept - mid October. They have arrived back "home". Maybe they can give us clues? Hate to even say that.

 

[scorekeeper]

Just something to ponder ... in a sad way.

The vultures have returned. They migrate south for the winter around the end of Sept - mid October. They have arrived back "home". Maybe they can give us clues? Hate to even say that.

BBM

Glad I read your whole post (because I was thinking something totally different than the birds...)

Are they on time or early? Does their return mean that the snow is melting?

TIA

 

[Ransom]

BBM

Glad I read your whole post (because I was thinking something totally different than the birds...)

Are they on time or early? Does their return mean that the snow is melting?

TIA

lol.

Right on schedule for our soaring ballerinas (vultures). Means spring is almost here. Lakes should thaw soon and then the Black BEARS wake up with their off spring(s) in tow. Only time our sweet black bears are aggressive is when the mom has a baby to protect. Spring is almost here. Sigh. Needed much more SNOW. Another year of drought and FIRE. Sigh.

 

[Seajay]

I've thought from the beginning that the mines should be checked out. I haven't read anything on MSM about any searches in mines. If Dylan knew about them, I can see them being a big attraction for an adventure. I wonder how close the nearest mines are to Mark's place and if it's within reasonable walking distance for a 13 year old boy to burn some time, waiting for his father to come home.

 

[scorekeeper]

The lake is pretty well clear of ice.

Wondering when the Team will be coming in to search Lake Vallecito.

 

[Money Girl]

The lake is pretty well clear of ice.

Wondering when the Team will be coming in to search Lake Vallecito.

I guess that is up to LE.

 

[scorekeeper]

Spring brings hope.

The organization Hess heads, “Find Missing Dylan Redwine,” is trying to raise money to hire teams that specialize in deep water searches.

Several have been contacted, and a couple have told Hess they won’t charge for the search, but their expenses such as lodging and travel need to be paid.

“These people know water, they know how it acts and they have made many, many water recoveries,” Hess said


Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/thaw-153174-redwine-dylan.html#ixzz2QB3V8DUG

 

[scorekeeper]

The specialists who’ve been contacted use 180-degree sonar on a cable that can be dropped into the water as long as necessary.

If the sonar detects something, a remotely operated underwater vehicle will be used for additional investigation. An ROV is operated remotely by a person on a boat. They are commonly used by deepwater industries.

The areas of the lake that will be searched include the deepest spots along the dam and along the eastern shoreline, Hess said.


Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/thaw-153174-redwine-dylan.html#ixzz2QB3ixj1U

 

[scorekeeper]

http://www.fishingnotes.com/lakeinfo.php?id=3115

The lake temperature is 48 degrees.

Wonder what it needs to be for the divers to go down?

 

[deoneta]

http://www.fishingnotes.com/lakeinfo.php?id=3115

The lake temperature is 48 degrees.

Wonder what it needs to be for the divers to go down?

I think the depth, especially at the dam, and the water pressure due to the altitude are bigger challenges than the water temperature at this point which is why the sonar equipment and ROV seem like a good idea. I wish Diveguy was around to tell us more. All MOO.

 

[ColdHands]

Here's the list I started in the other thread for Raine. Areas that have been searched:

MR's house at 2343 CR 500 (search warrant)
ER's house - was visited and items taken, but I did not hear that this was under a warrant
The house at 61 Windmill - was that searched? Maybe I'm only thinking of a FB rumor I read
All around the perimeter of the lake
Several miles up Middle Mountain Road

 

[The Cheese]

Copying some search info over to this thread from the main thread

FMDR April 14 - upcoming lake search and current conditions. Waiting for a dive team to come available out of several they've contacted. Expected in mid-May. Katt, Lisa, and Scott took a boat out on lake yesterday. - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...555396767820264.144727.555378941155380&type=1

FMDR March 16 - upcoming lake search. Picked a team they thought was the best in the world, have the best equipment, great recovery stats, and would be there as soon as the ice cleared. - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...555396767820264.144727.555378941155380&type=1

LE lake search in November -

The New Mexico State Police Search and Recovery Dive Team called off its search for Dylan Redwine in Vallecito Reservoir on Monday night, said Lt. Jennie Pierce, the commander of the dive team.

snipped

The New Mexico State Police dive team started searching the bottom of Vallecito Reservoir in southwest Colorado for Dylan on Sunday when cadaver-sniffing police dogs homed in on a section of the reservoir, Pierce said.

The dive team spent two days searching the area and is confident the dogs were wrong, Pierce said.

"We had a specific area we were asked to search," she said. "At this time, we feel that he's not there."

http://www.daily-times.com/ci_22071476/colorado-boy-still-missing-after-two-day-underwater

LE lake search in November

I was going back through old footage and stories last night, and watched this clip featuring an interview with one of the NM divers:

Koat TV, November 29 2012

LE lake search in November

Dive team head Lt. Jennie Pierce says their work was double checked and then triple checked.

I'm transcribing this from the video, because the quote in the article is wrong.

"We've double checked our work and now we have fellow law enforcement from the area triple checking our work, just because we're basically going off of tips - we don't have an actual last known location, so we want to cover as much ground as we possibly can."

http://www.krextv.com/news/around-t...hing-for-Clues-in-Missing-Teen-180945881.html

Water search with ROVs

I think they still need divers, but I'm certainly no expert. Maybe it depends on the type of ROV used(?). This document says ROVs aren't a replacement for divers, and talks about what the diver does.

Human Body Search and Recovery using Mini ROVs

http://www.pro-rov.com/images/Human_Body_Search_Recover_Using_Mini-ROVs_19Jan09__Formatt.pdf

Pictures of dive searches

We do not know who is being called in, but this Colorado group has a lot of pictures of dive searches that might help with the imagining of how the dive may go:

http://www.lcdrt.org/MeettheTeam.aspx

This is a nationally known group that is in Northern Colorado. I'm not saying that these are the divers coming, just that they may be representative of a similar team. And I'm uncertain if they have the robotics equipment.

For instance, in the 2011 album, there are some pictures of searching for bones reported found in Horsetooth Reservoir. They bring what looks to be a sizable group. But I don't see any dogs. So I'm now I'm wondering if this new group would be bringing back dogs? What do you all think?

 

[The Cheese]

I'm going back and collecting the links for the claims I've made about the LE search of the lake in November, specifically

• LE searched east end of lake
• LE searched south end of lake
• 7 divers
• 3/4 boats with 3/4 sonar systems
• LE searched an area 20 times the size of where the dogs hit

The La Plata County Sheriff's Office says they've searched the east side of the lake with divers and sonar in the past and weren't able to find anything.

http://www.kob.com/article/stories/S2946344.shtml?cat=504

Seven New Mexico State Police scuba divers used three different boats with four different sonar systems to sweep the southern end of Vallecito Lake Monday.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...lorado-teen-dylan-redwine-planned-for-tuesday

That's everything but the 20 times the size. I'm still looking for that one. It might have been in a video.

ETA found it! The 20 times was on Nancy Grace

BENDER: We`re still searching in the area, the Vallecito area. However, it`s a very large lake. It takes 12 miles to drive around the entire lake. And we were searching, the reason we brought up the divers and the sonar and such is because of the dog alerts in a very small area. Our search by the divers and sonar actually covered an area probably 20 times the (INAUDIBLE) where the dogs alerted and there was simply nothing found there.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1211/28/ng.01.html

 

[The Cheese]

Info on the New Mexico State Police Search and Recovery Dive Team that did the lake search in November. Lt. Jennie Pierce is the Commander of the team.

http://www.nmsp.dps.state.nm.us/index.php/search-dive-team-cont/

A couple pictures here of the dive team

http://artesiapd.tripod.com/nmsp/pics/dive.html

 

[The Cheese]

I just came across this info about the big ground search on Dec 8th while I was looking for something else. A few head-scratchers in here.

Ten agencies, including the La Plata County Sheriff's Office, the local police departments and the Red Cross gathered to further search with the community. Searchers hiked more than 60 miles of county roads looking for things Dylan may have thrown out of a car window.

They said it's possible he tried to escape or hide in areas of brush to keep warm. In all, 30 items were flagged. Investigators collected 10 as possible items of interest and will examine them closer.

snipped

Phippen said there is no reason to make it a recovery and not a rescue mission yet.

http://www.koat.com/news/new-mexico...17707274/-/pj5977z/-/index.html#ixzz2QSuSlUxk

Ed Phippen is with the La Plata Sheriff's office, and the Task Force lead IIRC

 

[The Cheese]

Dive crews used sonar equipped boats to comb the water, searching several areas cadaver dogs had reacted to. Nothing was found.

"We have no plans to return to the lake," said Bender.

http://www.krdo.com/news/Investigat...rance/-/417220/17558900/-/im35x1/-/index.html

 

[The Cheese]

• the dive team searched in about 40 feet of cold water http://durangoherald.com/article/20121125/NEWS01/121129707/Divers-search-reservoir
  
• The divers searched in about 40 feet of cold water http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/dylan-redwine-missing-off_n_2192407.html
  
• the lake’s depth — averaging 30 to 40 feet http://www.gazette.com/articles/thaw-153174-redwine-dylan.html#ixzz2R3jXf5Rq

This past Tuesday morning, three boats equipped with sonar resumed a search of Vallecito Reservoir, and the task force searched the shoreline.

“We have no new tips that have sent us back to the lake, but we’re checking in case changes in water and lake conditions could have resulted in any changes from last week,” said task force spokesman Dan Bender from the La Plata County Sheriff’s Office.

“Those searches have not found anything at this time, but are continuing throughout the day today (Tuesday),” Bender said.

A helicopter from the San Juan County (N.M.) Sheriff’s Office searched area lakes in La Plata County Tuesday afternoon. Those lakes included Vallecito, Lemon, Haviland Lake, Lake Nighthorse, and Electra Lake.

“These new searches are not based on any new tips either,” clarified Sgt. Bender. “We are just trying to be as thorough as possible and look as many places as we can for Dylan.”

http://www.pinerivertimes.com/news.asp?artid=1098

Divers have to be used judiciously, Bender said. The elevation of Vallecito, 7,700 feet, the 38 degree water and its depth, 40 feet, allow them to search safely for only 20 to 30 minutes.

Then, divers must wait eight hours before working again, Bender said. “Divers can’t take a break to have a Coke, then go back down,” he said.

http://durangoherald.com/article/20121126/NEWS01/121129702/Frustration-mounting

 

[The Cheese]

Videos

Teams search lake area for missing 13-year-old. 9NEWS at 9 p.m., 11/26/12.

http://www.9news.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1990769785001

Teams search lake area for missing 13-year-old. 9NEWS at 11 a.m. 11/26/12.

http://www.9news.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1990410009001

Teams search lake area for missing 13-year-old. 9NEWS at 6 p.m., 11/26/12.

http://www.9news.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1990793556001

Teams search lake area for missing 13-year-old. 9NEWS at 8 a.m. 11/26/12.

http://www.9news.com/video/default.aspx?bctid=1990299748001