CO CO - Fort Collins, WhtMale 174UMCO, 17-30, "P.I.L." Tattoo, Jul'97

[believe09]

If there is dna for both Johnny and the Doe, both reading submitted, tests complete, wouldn't that be an automatic rule out based on both being in Codis?

I would tend to think so Cubby.

Unless it is a partial match. The best FRS is MtDNA because it doesnt mutate like paternal DNA does, IIRC. So, FRS' are requested from female relatives, typically on the maternal side,for this reason. It is going to be tricky to match him with his father and his brother, but that is one for UNITCHI, lol.

Noreen is gumming up the works some if she refuses to give a sample, but she holds firm to her conspiracy belief so I can see why she would be resistant.

 

[Cubby]

The doe only has mtDNA. Johnny's NamUs profile does not indicate if there is mtDNA or Nuclear dna. anyone know?

 

[webrocket]

The doe only has mtDNA. Johnny's NamUs profile does not indicate if there is mtDNA or Nuclear dna. anyone know?

no.I asked on another MP case and got a very terse answer.

 

[Cappuccino]

Any of Johnny Gosch's maternal relatives - male or female - can provide mtDNA, it doesn't have to be his mother. If none of his maternal relatives co-operate with LE then they must only have Y chromosome DNA.

I can't think of any means by which they would be able to get a complete nuclear DNA profile for Johnny, given that he's been missing since 1982.

 

[Cubby]

Any of Johnny Gosch's maternal relatives - male or female - can provide mtDNA, it doesn't have to be his mother. If none of his maternal relatives co-operate with LE then they must only have Y chromosome DNA.

I can't think of any means by which they would be able to get a complete nuclear DNA profile for Johnny, given that he's been missing since 1982.

Would this then be enough to safely assume the DNA for Johnny is mtDNA? If so, it should be an automatic rule out as both would have mtDNA in codis.

 

[believe09]

I dont think we can assume that there is MtDNA on file for Johnny unless someone knows for sure that a maternal relative did a FRS.

 

[Cappuccino]

Would this then be enough to safely assume the DNA for Johnny is mtDNA? If so, it should be an automatic rule out as both would have mtDNA in codis.

Unfortunately no, we can't assume that. We don't know if the donor of the DNA is related to Johnny through his maternal ancestry, paternal ancestry, or both. The only thing we can rule out is a full nuclear DNA profile, because if they had something left from 1982 from which they could lift Johnny's own DNA, they wouldn't have asked Noreen for mtDNA in the first place.

 

[MistyM]

I was just looking at this man that is unidentified in Colorado. Found dead a few months AFTER his Johnny's mom said he came to visit her. Supposedly she hasnt heard anything from him since..though if I were her, I would keep it secret too until I knew he was not in danger. Anyhow...I saw the unidentified picture first, then the pictures of Johhny and what struck me was the gap between the teeth. See if you think its possible. Would make sense that he was living a transient life if he really thought he was in danger.

just thinking that they thought he was a transient and looking at that bushy facial hair one might think he was trying to disguise himself and also on the run. i really got the heebie jeebies from this match. too hinky of a coincidence that the body was found a few months after his visit with his mom.

this case has always haunted me.

 

[chaddylex]

Wonder if Johnny's mom ended up submitting her DNA? I would love to know the answer on this and where they got the DNA sample from?

 

[Sleuthnewbie]

I hope she has, or will soon. At best she will get an answer either on the fate of her son, or more evidence that he may be out there still.

 

[carbuff]

Ruleouts for this UID as of 25 October 2014:

Exclusions
The following people have been ruled out as being this decedent (https://identifyus.org/cases/454):

First Name Last Name Year of Birth State LKA

Craig Alexander 1961 Vermont
Craig Alexander 1961 Vermont
Patrick Beavers 1972 Idaho
Dean Bechtold 1973 Nebraska
Ronald Cole 1945 California
James Cooper 1979 Michigan
Burt Dollar 1974 California
Roger Ellison 1963 Colorado
Peter McColl 1979 California
Joel Rodriguez 1979 New York

 

[MRS_DAL]

The PIL tattoo almost certainly is a reference to Public Image Ltd. punk band. I wonder if there were any punk music shows/events taking place in that area near that date. They often took place in industrial areas and warehouse venues durring that time. Just a thought.

 

[carbuff]

No new ruleouts since last year. https://identifyus.org/cases/454):

 

[ebonydarkness]

The PIL tattoo almost certainly is a reference to Public Image Ltd. punk band. I wonder if there were any punk music shows/events taking place in that area near that date. They often took place in industrial areas and warehouse venues durring that time. Just a thought.

Here's a list of concerts in Colorado in 1997 up until the UID was discovered.
http://www.setlist.fm/search?query=city:(co)+date:[1997-01-01+TO+1997-07-12]

 

[wintermute]

The PIL tattoo almost certainly is a reference to Public Image Ltd. punk band. I wonder if there were any punk music shows/events taking place in that area near that date. They often took place in industrial areas and warehouse venues durring that time. Just a thought.

PIL was performing at midsized and astbolished venues at that point in their career. They weren't an obscure punk band at all in '97.
In '97, their most recent tours would have been in '92 and '89. During their '89 tour, they toured with New Order and The Sugar Cubes, which were also very well known bands that played midsized to large venues. During the '89 tour, they played at two Colorado venues: Red Rocks in Denver, and the Mackie Auditorium in Boulder. I was living in Boulder at that time, but unfortunately I was only 11 years old. I would have loved to attend either of those shows; they're both gorgeous venues, and I LOVE New Order

 

[MRS_DAL]

I was not assuming he went to see PIL in that area possibly another band which would explain why he was in that industrial area. I grew up in Denver and rember going to FC for many main stream and lesser known acts. Some of them were in warehouses in that general area. I doubt they would appear on any standard list of concerts. There is a joint up there nearish to the spot he was found called the blasting room or something close to that. I remember another place as well where we saw the eyeliners. I think its worth a look.

 

[cvaldez1975]

sometimes as big bands wind down in fame they play smaller venues.

 

[margarita25]

Hat about Bryan Dale Ambrose as a possibility? He has been missing from Colorado Springs and has a gap between his teeth his teeth:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/ambrose_bryan.html



*the only mention of a tattoo is black cat on his left shoulder

ETA: nevermind, the p.i.l. tattoo would not be visible after 15 years, I don't think; Ambrose has been missing since 1982

 

[margarita25]

I did not see a Namus link on this thread for this UID so here it is:

https://identifyus.org/cases/454

there are 7 rule outs, but Johnny Gosch is not one of them.

From the above link:


Hat: Farley's Discount Liquors, Idabelle, OK

 

[MRS_DAL]

Hat about Bryan Dale Ambrose as a possibility? He has been missing from Colorado Springs and has a gap between his teeth his teeth:

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/ambrose_bryan.html

View attachment 79878

*the only mention of a tattoo is black cat on his left shoulder

ETA: nevermind, the p.i.l. tattoo would not be visible after 15 years, I don't think; Ambrose has been missing since 1982

I think he may be too short and his hair looks really curly and light IMHO. He does have an Oklahoma connection though, which would go with the hat.