CO - Gannon Stauch, 11, found deceased, Colorado Springs, El Paso County, 27 Jan 2020 *Arrest* #60

[LostOldUserName]

It's not MSM, just my notes, but the line in question is in quotation marks, and I'm pretty certain that it's one I captured accurately to what I actually heard rather than being a generalised impression.

CO - Gannon Stauch, 11, found deceased, Colorado Springs, El Paso County, 27 Jan 2020 *Arrest* #60

I can't remember exactly what LS said to provoke it, but I suspect it was some garbage about how he loved his biokids and never loved HH, which she said a lot of at various points.

MOO

My thoughts also.I can just hear her yapping, "you don't love her like you kids" yada yada (sorry couldn't resist)

 

[Soulmagent]

Under things I wonder about:

If jury finds LS guilty and sentences her to LWOP, is it likely that she could be diagnosed as mentally incompetent in prison, then transferred to a mental health facility to serve her sentence?

I might be okay with that . Picture her need to control everything and reason her way though life with people who truly cannot reason?

 

[iamshadow21]

Under things I wonder about:

If jury finds LS guilty and sentences her to LWOP, is it likely that she could be diagnosed as mentally incompetent in prison, then transferred to a mental health facility to serve her sentence?

I don't know how likely it is, but it's possible, it's happened in other cases. I think her risk of escape and danger to others are more likely to factor into where she ultimately resides than her apparent mental health.

But I am not a corrections officer or psych, so MOO.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I try.

To be honest, sarcasm and cynicism are coping mechanisms I've been using since at least my teenage years to deal with awful things. They're getting a big workout with this case. If I didn't use them occasionally I'd probably just be sitting here crying, and then my typing would be even worse than when I had my ADHD hyperfocus crash earlier, because I wouldn't be able to see my keyboard for the tears. Every now and then it slams down on me just how damn sad and how unnecessary this whole crime was. This poor kid was sacrificed for no other reason than to feed this vulture's ego. There's no wisecrack I can make that can make that any less awful or tragic.

MOO

I'm so glad you are not sitting here crying and I also enjoy your wit.

I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that I have bolded. It's shocking to realize the size and convolution of an ego required to commit such horrible acts, but we see it in this case.

Thanks to your painstaking efforts at transcription, we know that once she was "finished" with Gannon she became afraid that Al would kill her for what she had done.

Her out-of-control ego immediately began to seek self-preservation. She knew how wrong her actions were.

It's hard to accept because we all have egos.

 

[Allynator]

Has it ever been reported that LS has any mental illnesses?

 

[iamshadow21]

Has it ever been reported that LS has any mental illnesses?

By LS or by others? LS claimed to have Generalised Anxiety Disorder for which she regularly took Lorazepam in her police interview. She claimed to have some diagnosis in her letter to the judge way back, but the word for the condition she claimed was redacted. HH said she never knew her mother to have any diagnoses or even attend therapy, ever.

We may get some clarity when we get to the defense side of things, if they were able to unearth prior treatment documentation.

MOO

 

[Seattle1]

I think they are running the risk, however slight, that the jury will think she's crazy.

IMO.

that is the problem.

There's no doubt LS is disordered (crazy) but criminally insane she is not. Having listened to the juror selection and the questions asked, they clearly understand the difference. And I disagree they are running any risk -- I think it's the complete opposite.

Through those recorded calls, we've all witnessed what the FBI's BAU terms LS's pathway of violence: it's clear to me that not even torturing and killing Gannon could erase or even the scorecard of perceived wrongs LS is collecting in her head.

IMO, LS could very well kill again (and I think LH was in grave danger)!

Meanwhile, LS is doing what sane individuals do: we fabricate and misdirect to avoid punishment. In other words, LS is literally screaming consciousness of guilt and knowledge of right and wrong. MOO

 

[Soulmagent]

Has it ever been reported that LS has any mental illnesses?

Is audacity an illness? She got that 4 sure.

 

[Kiranerys]

I may be alone in thinking that Gannon's medical condition had nothing to do with him being killed. I think it was just another way she chose to humiliate and torture him before and after death.

A lot of the cases I've seen on here where parents who murder their kids cite toileting as a trigger or factor, the parents have in some way created or amplified the situation on purpose as part of a pattern of abuse, rather than the child having accidents setting off a mentally fragile parent. The Valva case is a prime example, though if you don't know it, you should step into it with care, it's equally awful as this one, IMO.

MOO

I have wished many unspeakable things upon Michael Valva and I'm not a bit sorry for it.

 

[Seattle1]

I've never read that anywhere. I'm very surprised. She was 12 when AS & LS married and her bio dad had just recently died. Personally that would not be a great time to suggest adoption IMO. Creating a blended family without introducing adoption would be the priority I'd think. Plus it sounds like when they first married HH may have seen her dad's family as the Stauches lived in SC. There are likely lots and lots of Hunt relatives close by in southeastern NC/Robeson Co.

I'm not sure I buy the story. I especially am not too sure I think he'd push for 5 years to adopt his wife's teenage daughter. (Esp if the marriage was in trouble as some claim.)

Do you have a link for the adoption story? TIA.
JMO

^^bbm

This was a comment by AS in the recorded calls played on Weds, 4/19. LS was complaining about something being unfair to HH and AS responded how he'd begged LS for years to allow him to adopt HH.

Also, I recall HH testified that she struggled early on with the blended family of LS and AS because her dad had just died and she did not want to be disloyal to his memory.

MOO

 

[heartandsoul]

There's no doubt LS is disordered (crazy) but criminally insane she is not. Having listened to the juror selection and the questions asked, they clearly understand the difference. And I disagree they are running any risk -- I think it's the complete opposite.

Through those recorded calls, we've all witnessed what the FBI's BAU terms LS's pathway of violence: it's clear to me that not even torturing and killing Gannon could erase or even the scorecard of perceived wrongs LS is collecting in her head.

IMO, LS could very well kill again (and I think LH was in grave danger)!

Meanwhile, LS is doing what sane individuals do: we fabricate and misdirect to avoid punishment. In other words, LS is literally screaming consciousness of guilt and knowledge of right and wrong. MOO

BMB - After certain family members taking the stand and giving evidence against her, I can think of a few who'd be at risk if she were ever free (thankfully very doubtful).

 

[Seattle1]

Has it ever been reported that LS has any mental illnesses?

When LS entered NGRI, her medical records were no longer private and made available to the court. The medical professionals have not testified yet so this is yet to be determined.

However, according to her brother and daughter that have testified, I think it's clear that LS made up she'd been treated for mental illness. MOO

 

[heartandsoul]

If defence are not bringing up other doctors as witnesses, who could testify to having diagnosed or treated her prior to Gannon's murder, I'd say it's also quite unlikely that she was ever previously diagnosed with any mental illnesses.

 

[taylorss]

So hard to understand the audio

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I think the ME would have said if there were signs of healing.

Also, the four inch deep wound to the shoulder that penetrated the joint? The deep wound to the back that broke one of his ribs? These aren't wounds that would have just stopped bleeding. They're debilitating, potentially mortal just though blood loss. She couldn't speak as to whether his lung was nicked by any of the wounds, because of the decomposition of his organs, but if it was, he'd be having trouble breathing at all.

Tl;dr, he was gravely injured just from the knife attack. Given time, the head injury would have been fatal. The gunshot severed his spine and killed him instantly.

Also, as far as I know, they never found blood in the truck.

MOO

*Are you talking about the SUV?

Authorities also found blood in and on Letecia's Volkswagen Tiguan SUV. The authorities believe that this vehicle was used to dispose o the boy's body off a highway in Douglas County, Colorado

Gannon Stauch's stepmom 'violently' killed him in his bedroom, cops claim after finding blood-soaked mattress

Gannon's remains were found on March 20, months after he was reported missing from Colorado Springs on January 27

meaww.com

 

[Seattle1]

Under things I wonder about:

If jury finds LS guilty and sentences her to LWOP, is it likely that she could be diagnosed as mentally incompetent in prison, then transferred to a mental health facility to serve her sentence?

Yes. James Holmes used the NGRI defense and was found guilty. He was sentenced to DOC but did not last but a month before he was transferred to San Carlos Correctional Facility in Pueblo, the mental facility, where he's been ever since. (IMO, if Holmes was found sane, LS using NGRI defense was pointless).

Theater shooter moved to prison for mentally ill criminals

James Holmes, who had his 28th birthday Sunday, was transferred Monday after serving a few months in the Colorado State Penitentiary.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Soulmagent]

There's no doubt LS is disordered (crazy) but criminally insane she is not. Having listened to the juror selection and the questions asked, they clearly understand the difference. And I disagree they are running any risk -- I think it's the complete opposite.

Through those recorded calls, we've all witnessed what the FBI's BAU terms LS's pathway of violence: it's clear to me that not even torturing and killing Gannon could erase or even the scorecard of perceived wrongs LS is collecting in her head.

IMO, LS could very well kill again (and I think LH was in grave danger)!

Meanwhile, LS is doing what sane individuals do: we fabricate and misdirect to avoid punishment. In other words, LS is literally screaming consciousness of guilt and knowledge of right and wrong. MOO

This no doubt she is crazy ,lead from your statement is essentially the problem (for us) I hope your correct.
I have listened to the calls and I do not see many instances of normal thought processes to them. She really seems to believe that if Al co signs her behavior it will all be okay. I flop between she is an evil plotting person who loves to inflick pain ,or she is so sick in the head that Al is her only axis. Its not normal and its undercurrent has crazy waves weaved into its fabric.

 

[10ofRods]

There's no doubt LS is disordered (crazy) but criminally insane she is not. Having listened to the juror selection and the questions asked, they clearly understand the difference. And I disagree they are running any risk -- I think it's the complete opposite.

Through those recorded calls, we've all witnessed what the FBI's BAU terms LS's pathway of violence: it's clear to me that not even torturing and killing Gannon could erase or even the scorecard of perceived wrongs LS is collecting in her head.

IMO, LS could very well kill again (and I think LH was in grave danger)!

Meanwhile, LS is doing what sane individuals do: we fabricate and misdirect to avoid punishment. In other words, LS is literally screaming consciousness of guilt and knowledge of right and wrong. MOO

But CO doesn't use the M'Naghten rule by itself. So sanity is not necessarily defined in CO by knowing the difference between right and wrong. A person can know right from wrong and still be found NGRI.

That's why I worry a little. I basically agree with you - that they hopefully chose a jury who can understand and apply CO law.

From FIndLaw (link below):

//

Proving Irresistible Impulse​

In jurisdictions that use or incorporate the Irresistible Impulse Test as a criminal defense, defendants typically must present sufficient evidence to prove:

1. The existence of mental illness; and
2. That the mental illness caused the inability to control one's actions or conform one's conduct to the law.

As you can see, proving that a defendant was unable to control his or her actions at the time of a crime can be quite challenging. Often, it may require a medical examination and expert witness testimony from medical professionals who specialize in mental health conditions. The evidence would have to prove the diagnosis of a condition as well as its impact on the defendant's behavior, perhaps due to certain environmental triggers.
//

It's the use of the word "triggers" that concerns me some. 10 years ago, I hardly ever heard the word. Now, there's strong pressure on teachers to provide "trigger warnings" (and the list of them is rather long, possibly endless - most of us get around it by mentioning "there might be triggers"). But people use the word all the time, to the point that many people believe them, themselves, can be "triggered" and that their mental condition deteriorates suddenly when they are triggered.

//
The Irresistible Impulse Test was first adopted by the Alabama Supreme Court in the 1887 case of Parsons v. State. The Alabama court stated that even though the defendant could tell right from wrong, he was subject to "the duress of such mental disease [that] he had ... lost the power to choose between right and wrong" and that "his free agency was at the time destroyed," and thus, "the alleged crime was so connected with such mental disease, in the relation of cause and effect, as to have been the product of it solely."

In so finding, the court assigned responsibility for the crime to the mental illness despite the defendant's ability to distinguish right from wrong. And therefore found the defendant not guilty by reason of insanity.//

The number of times I read here on WS (daily) that LS is "insane" or "crazy" is troubling. At any rate, I do think she'll end up in the psych ward of the prison (or be transferred to a facility where they can properly deal with her).

I tend to be a worrier. I don't know CO case law well enough to understand whether CO also requires some version of M'Naghten.

I just googled "Letecia Stauch borderline diagnosis" and got no hits from any news agencies - they all led back to Websleuths (there were a couple of reddit hits as well). Inside Edition did report that LS claims to have DID.

According to what I'm reading on the Irresistible Impulse test, the matter has largely been decided by the testimony of expert witnesses. So here we are. I find Dr. Lewis to be unprofessional and one of those paid experts who is almost entirely removed from any research or clinical practice. In the end, this may come down to a battle between the defense expert and the prosecution experts - and I think you're right; the State will win out. But we're very close to the margins, as to me it's clear that LS has multiple cognitive issues and DSM symptoms.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:people_acquitted_by_reason_of_insanity

The Irresistible Impulse Test - FindLaw

The Irresistible Impulse Test gained acceptance in various states as an appendage to the M'Naghten Rule, under which right versus wrong was still considered a vital part of any definition of insanity. Learn more about topics like these at FindLaw's section on Criminal Procedure.

www.findlaw.com

I believe the defense mentioned both Borderline PD and DID at some point, although I'm not sure (no link, JMO). At any rate, DID is going to be fully discussed in the second half of this trial.

 

[mpnola]

I'm so glad you are not sitting here crying and I also enjoy your wit.

I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree with your statement that I have bolded. It's shocking to realize the size and convolution of an ego required to commit such horrible acts, but we see it in this case.

Thanks to your painstaking efforts at transcription, we know that once she was "finished" with Gannon she became afraid that Al would kill her for what she had done.

Her out-of-control ego immediately began to seek self-preservation. She knew how wrong her actions were.

It's hard to accept because we all have egos.

I agree, except one thing. I do not think she was scared of AL. She said stuff like that over and over, but there is nothing previously or even nothing in the calls that suggests he was anything but good to that witch. It's just yet again another example of her blame shifting. She's scared of Al in the same way she was too scared to tell the police Gannon didn't run away because Quincy Brown was still in the storage closet. She kept screaming I was scared for my life!!!! She's just a lying, manipulative, abusive, self serving, narcissistic drama queen. She wasn't scared of Al. Only of him not choosing her.

 

[Marie Bell]

By LS or by others? LS claimed to have Generalised Anxiety Disorder for which she regularly took Lorazepam in her police interview. She claimed to have some diagnosis in her letter to the judge way back, but the word for the condition she claimed was redacted. HH said she never knew her mother to have any diagnoses or even attend therapy, ever.

We may get some clarity when we get to the defense side of things, if they were able to unearth prior treatment documentation.

MOO

You'd think Harley would have known if LS had ever had any treatment. It's not as though LS would ever stop wittering on about it.