CO CO - Garfield Co, WhtMale 35-65, 789UMCO, skeletal in tent, Sep'04

JSolt1210

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The glider comment has always sounded to me like it refers to some past incident when he and Lib were up in a glider and he threw up on him/her.
Or maybe even in a roller coaster, or anything involving heights and motion which gave him nausea. But you're right—the comment sounds too specific and likely references an actual incident, or at least something he was known for (becoming easily nauseated).
 

Traymar

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The glider comment has always sounded to me like it refers to some past incident when he and Lib were up in a glider and he threw up on him/her.

Completely agree. I actually went down a rabbit hole pretty hard, looking at old gliding org newsletters and photo albums from CO, NV, other nearby areas. Just on the off chance there would be some poster saying hey, keep an eye out for a friend who's missing, etc.

Also searched on "Lib" and "glider," "missing," etc. Didn't find anything (didn't really expect to), but figured it couldn't hurt...
 

Traymar

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Oh! Forgot to add that I also went down a Columbine rabbit hole, as I had somehow forgotten that the shootings had occurred in April 1999. So I wondered if our camper could possibly have been connected and/or affected in some way by the shootings and just decided to take a break from life for a while, not expecting to die out there.

Or, another thought: keeping in mind that he had two cups, etc., is it possible he was waiting for Lib to meet him out there but then something happened to her? If he were a childless single guy and only child whose parents predeceased him, he may not have anyone looking for him. Maybe he was on disability and so wouldn't have workmates looking for him.

Just some random thoughts, and all MOO.
 

JSolt1210

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That's a really good thought about expecting Lib to meet him. That would fit with the first part of the letter as well.

Yeah, it's been speculated upthread that Lib and this man actually went camping together. When he became injured, Lib went to get help, perished in the woods, and simply has never been found. That would explain not only the two cups, but also the fact he addresses her specifically in the letter. Why would he think Lib, and not another friend or random person, would find it? Was she his only friend?

But the problem with this scenario is that it now introduces a second person unaccounted for. Did no one report Lib (Olivia? Elizabeth? etc.) missing either? Did Lib and this man, being loners, have only each other?

Lib most likely does/did exist, since he wrote to her. In his desperation, he could've used her as a focal point for his letter, even if she wasn't physically there with him.
 

JSolt1210

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Don't forget that there is one more line at the first page......... Underneath the YOW 25

Also we should remember that there is a wildcard. On page two he draws a happy face. So any of these smudged words that we can't figure out could be a drawing.

Good points!

The line below "YOW 25," are we sure he wrote on it, though? To me, it looks like the leftover space near the bottom of a page after the ruled lines end. Of course, people do write there sometimes, but generally I think people prefer to continue on the next page. I don't see anything that looks like writing there, but the area is in such bad shape that it could be possible.

As for the smudges—I suspect that some of our confusion comes from the possibility that the rain has caused his words to bleed through the pages. Something he wrote on page 1 could also appear on page 2, or even vice versa. I wonder if that's the case with the last line (with "YOW 25") which appears in three pages, and even with "SAVED/FAVOR" on page 1, since page 2 has "[EN]DEAVOR" on the same line.
 

papijoe2002

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When I took a very close look at those words like saved/favor etc.. I can see that they're in the same place on every page, so it seems like the ink has likely soaked through to the other pages. However when you look at the shape of one of the letters on the first page it doesnt look identical to the same letter on the other pages. Take a look at the "A" or "N" or "Y" on page 1 and compare them to the second and third page. These letters were clearly written at different times right?
 

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JSolt1210

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When I took a very close look at those words like saved/favor etc.. I can see that they're in the same place on every page, so it seems like the ink has likely soaked through to the other pages. However when you look at the shape of one of the letters on the first page it doesnt look identical to the same letter on the other pages. Take a look at the "A" or "N" or "Y" on page 1 and compare them to the second and third page. These letters were clearly written at different times right?

Honestly, I feel now like the letters could all be the same.

The "A" on page 3 to me looks similar to the one on page 1. The difference on page 2 could be due to a tear?

The "N" does look a little different on page 3. Its middle diagonal stroke appears to me to be straighter than on pages 1 and 2.

The "Y" to me looks the same on all pages, like a "9" that's slightly missing its top right corner—although interestingly, the "Y" on page 1 looks more complete, with each page losing more of the top right, suggesting bleed-through.

The "2" from the "$25" does look different too. On page 2, the bottom stroke looks like it's perfectly on top of the ruled line, whereas on page 1 it looks like it's slightly bending down to the right. Also the top of the "2" on page 2 looks more rounded than on page 1.

Ugh, I feel like I'm going cross-eyed!
 

papijoe2002

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Honestly, I feel now like the letters could all be the same.

The "A" on page 3 to me looks similar to the one on page 1. The difference on page 2 could be due to a tear?

The "N" does look a little different on page 3. Its middle diagonal stroke appears to me to be straighter than on pages 1 and 2.

The "Y" to me looks the same on all pages, like a "9" that's slightly missing its top right corner—although interestingly, the "Y" on page 1 looks more complete, with each page losing more of the top right, suggesting bleed-through.

The "2" from the "$25" does look different too. On page 2, the bottom stroke looks like it's perfectly on top of the ruled line, whereas on page 1 it looks like it's slightly bending down to the right. Also the top of the "2" on page 2 looks more rounded than on page 1.

Ugh, I feel like I'm going cross-eyed!

If its a bleed through to all three pages then the bottom part of the last two pages didn't have any writing on them?

Or the bottom part of the last two pages did have writing and that writing came off from exposure to the elements. Afterwards the first page soaked through to last two pages?

Or he wrote approximately the same thing on the bottom of all three pages?

Or what were looking at was actually written on the third page and then soaked towards page two and one. This is just as likely since the notebook could have been face down or face up?
 

JSolt1210

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If its a bleed through to all three pages then the bottom part of the last two pages didn't have any writing on them?

Or the bottom part of the last two pages did have writing and that writing came off from exposure to the elements. Afterwards the first page soaked through to last two pages?

Or he wrote approximately the same thing on the bottom of all three pages?

Or what were looking at was actually written on the third page and then soaked towards page two and one. This is just as likely since the notebook could have been face down or face up?

BBM: That's a very good point! I hadn't thought about that, and it makes sense.

I don't know, though... looking some more, I think now that the bleed-through is from page 1 down. In the second pic you posted, the "ET" from "gET" looks much clearer to me on page 1 than page 2, where it looks faded. And when you factor in the "Y" or "9", which to me looks fully formed on page 1 and less so on the following pages, bleed-through from page 1 down is more likely to me.

Thanks so much by the way for the comparisons of the three letters you posted. The enlarged versions come out too pixelated on my desktop and smartphone, but I can still see the general gist of it.
 

Traymar

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BBM: That's a very good point! I hadn't thought about that, and it makes sense.

I don't know, though... looking some more, I think now that the bleed-through is from page 1 down. In the second pic you posted, the "ET" from "gET" looks much clearer to me on page 1 than page 2, where it looks faded. And when you factor in the "Y" or "9", which to me looks fully formed on page 1 and less so on the following pages, bleed-through from page 1 down is more likely to me.

Thanks so much by the way for the comparisons of the three letters you posted. The enlarged versions come out too pixelated on my desktop and smartphone, but I can still see the general gist of it.

Agree! Seeing them side by side makes a huge difference, and I also agree it's bleed through from page 1 onto the later pages. It's hard to dispute when viewing them this way. I feel confident on that, at least.

MOO
 

Traymar

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When I took a very close look at those words like saved/favor etc.. I can see that they're in the same place on every page, so it seems like the ink has likely soaked through to the other pages. However when you look at the shape of one of the letters on the first page it doesnt look identical to the same letter on the other pages. Take a look at the "A" or "N" or "Y" on page 1 and compare them to the second and third page. These letters were clearly written at different times right?

I think they are the same. Our brains will very convincingly try to "fill in the blanks" where info is missing, and I think that's why it's particularly difficult not to make a mental jump to other words in the later pages. But I feel strongly that they are identical. Needless to say, I could be wrong! It's all MOO.
 

JSolt1210

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I think they are the same. Our brains will very convincingly try to "fill in the blanks" where info is missing, and I think that's why it's particularly difficult not to make a mental jump to other words in the later pages. But I feel strongly that they are identical. Needless to say, I could be wrong! It's all MOO.

Yeah I agree they’re most likely identical. Any differences we see could be due to how rain might’ve leaked the ink onto other pages, or the condition of page below (slightly wrinkled, bent, curved, angled etc.)

Because what would be the point of repeating one line at the bottom of each page? Earlier upthread I thought it could be like a legal document where each page is signed and initialed. But honestly, if I felt like my time was up, legal formalities like those would certainly not be on my mind. And the more I think about it, “Dear Lib...” doesn’t sound to me like the opening to a formal last will and testament.
 

papijoe2002

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If we're agreed that it's a bleed through onto pages that were otherwise blank in that area, then we can use the bottom of all three pages to determine the "second choice" at the bottom of the first page!!!
 

Traymar

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Yeah I agree they’re most likely identical. Any differences we see could be due to how rain might’ve leaked the ink onto other pages, or the condition of page below (slightly wrinkled, bent, curved, angled etc.)

Because what would be the point of repeating one line at the bottom of each page? Earlier upthread I thought it could be like a legal document where each page is signed and initialed. But honestly, if I felt like my time was up, legal formalities like those would certainly not be on my mind. And the more I think about it, “Dear Lib...” doesn’t sound to me like the opening to a formal last will and testament.

Yes, agree about the ink. And if it were written as a last will and testament, like you said, I think the format would be different, with the repeated lines (if they were there) more likely put in a "header" instead of the first line being a familiar/casual greeting. MOO.
 
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