CO CO - Garfield Co., WhtMale Skeletal 789UMCO, 35-65, in tent, Sep'04

Discussion in 'The Unidentified' started by Rle7, May 6, 2006.

  1. ForeverAmber806

    ForeverAmber806 Member

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    I'm so sorry for the post after post...now my thoughts are obsessing on this case. Mentioning earlier that something could have "incapacitated" him made me start thinking about what exactly could have done that. I'm not a medical expert by any means but could something like a snake/spider bite or a twisted ankle show up on an autopsy if the body is badly decomposed? I realize this information doesn't really help find out the identity of this person but it just doesn't feel like a suicide or terminal illness situation. Ok, I'll stop posting for now. :)
     
  2. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Are we talking about the same Jansport? Company that makes cute backpacks for schoolkids? Tears through in a week if you try to put real gear in it?
     
  3. mojave_red

    mojave_red Active Member

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    I used to carry a bright yellow internal-frame Jansport backpack about thirty years ago - very well-made, still usable. It may be that they have different quality levels for different equipment, and that daypacks for students are much less durable than daypacks for, say, rock climbers or other outdoorspeople.
     
  4. baraby1969

    baraby1969 New Member

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    Does anyone have a closeup picture of the maps?
     
  5. baraby1969

    baraby1969 New Member

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  6. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    Difference between east and west, maybe? I have never seen a sport-quality Jansport pack here in MA.
     
  7. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Well-Known Member

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    Jansport got bought out by Vanity Fair, which also owns The North Face and some other brands. In the process, Jansport went down a few notches in quality. TNF went all "urban outdoors" and is almost entirely in the apparel market. It does very little that you'd call very technical. For instance, TNF uses the same tent designs over and over and has done for years; its packs are way behind the times. The high end of the original North Face split off the night before it was going bankrupt and got bought out: one guy started Black Diamond, and another started Mountain Hardwear (now owned by Columbia).

    Yes, Jansport was a very reputable pack company. Very. I had one of their travel backpacks in the 1970's. Their packs were very durable, good fabrics, well stitched. Its current products bear no resemblance to those made before the Vanity Fair days. Now, they are sold at places like JC Penneys and not at quality outdoor stores.

    From the looks of UID's pack, he had one from the pre-Vanity Fair days. These were not cheap packs. However, he could have bought it from someone else who was upgrading to one of the newer, more high tech, pack companies.
     
  8. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone tell from the photos whether the Jansport is an internal frame or external? If it's external, it would have to be a large pack. If internal, the sleeping bag may have had to be tied on the outside.

    That's a good thought about the socks needing duct tape because of the hole in the shoe. I wonder if the shoe de-laminated on the trip.

    I wouldn't especially expect a spare pair of socks to be found. Socks make great critter nests.

    The food bag had to have been hung somewhere. LE might not have thought to look upwards when they did their search.
     
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  9. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm....he would have had to be wandering for at least 2 years after he was reported missing, but he sounds like a wandering type.

    Is there any more information on Buckley?
     
  10. mojave_red

    mojave_red Active Member

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    Maybe like this one: Jansport Cascade Internal Frame Backpack, circa 2000
    JansportCascadeInternalFrameBackpack.jpg
     
  11. baraby1969

    baraby1969 New Member

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    I don't have any more info about Buckley. He was a truck driver at one time and truck drivers are at high risk of developing various degenerative spinal disorders due to the stress that repetitive lifting of cargo can put on the spine. Since Dental records are on filefor both men I went a head and sent it in, seems like it would be an quick way to rule him out. I also asked if there was a list of people who have been ruled out. I'll let you know if they reply.
     
  12. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Well-Known Member

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    Oooh! You're clever! I believe that would be another clue if it didn't come out until 2000. Some stores would have had it in stock into the next season or the season after. It's even possible Jansport knows where those packs got shipped, since I doubt it was stocked in some of the more conspicuous stores, like REI, because it was getting to be a little "old school" by then. There's plenty of room on a pack that size for what the UID had: you can see from the photo that a sleeping bag is strapped to the outside. The photo you provided even gives some ideas about how he would have packed it.

    That is a 70 liter pack: biggish, especially if you carry stuff on the outside as used to be common.

    That "sleeping bag sack" may have been used for clothing, and not a sleeping bag. Personally, I never squeeze my clothing into a tight sack, since the sack ends up like a big lump and is hard to find a spot for in a pack. I pack my extra clothing (such as I have on a multi-day trip, lol) loosely in a larger bag and then plop it in my pack in the crevices.

    It is not that rare these days to not take a whole lot of clothes on a backpack trip —why stink up 2 sets of clothes instead of one?—but it is very noticeable in this case that there don't seem to have been any insulation (e.g. puffy jacket or fleece), rain gear, or spare socks. You just don't go out there without those items in the mountains, even almost on a day hike! If the guy had a good tent and pack and long underwear, not to mention a top notch filter, stove, bear spray, and maps, he would have had the right apparel. I mean, really, he had a "tent repair kit." (I don't even have one of those. Interesting that he had a tent repair kit and no first aid kit.) Even if he were a hobo, he would have been entitled to some kind of warm jacket at a nearby homeless outreach. I don't get this at all.

    Either someone stole a down jacket, rain gear, a headlamp, hat (and maybe a pair of socks), or the police missed something on the scene. ( If the money was on the body, it might have creeped out a thief, and was not touchable.) Plus, there will have been food, toothpaste, et al. (maybe a first aid kit), either hung from a high branch some distance away (most likely) or they were in a bear bin tossed on the ground (less likely), also some distance away. These will have been very easy to miss, if the police were not familiar with backpacker protocol.
     
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  13. mojave_red

    mojave_red Active Member

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    I don't know the start date for that backpack might be, but the reference I used was some guy's equipment review in 2000. I also found a used Cascade 65 (slightly smaller) on eBay that was sold in Jan 15, so they are still around.
     
  14. baraby1969

    baraby1969 New Member

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    image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg Wow, I can't tell what color his pack was but the hat sure looks like the kind. He also carried a sleeping roll so it could have looked like one of these. Notice that the roll/may in this picture is wrapped in a waterproof bag. Perhaps he used the surf board bag for that, to keep it dry.
     
  15. baraby1969

    baraby1969 New Member

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    I agree. There is definitely stuff missing. What I wouldn't give to go and spend a day or two in the area looking around one more time. I truly believe his ID/wallet is probably with his jacket/coat either somewhere on the side of that hill or someone found it and took it. He believed he would be found and identified. I think it must have been something very bad that happened, like a heart attack/stroke. Maybe the drawing of the heart is symbolic, Maybe that's a picture of Joe Camel in the middle of the heart, I don't know. He knew he was six miles from freedom, it would have taken something really bad to stop his progress, especially if it was downhill. Maybe it was a combination of both. Maybe he had a heart attack or stroke and couldn't move much, then burned some of his items over time to stay warm/comfortable at night and just didn't wake up one day. If it was snow/cold then he could have turned his sleeping mat into a sled, like the old plastic roll up sleds we had as kids. He had 8 lighters and notebook paper as well as other burnable material to stay warm if he had to. Another thought, why would he go off the trail where no one would see him if he had a heart attack, other than to take shelter? Man this one really fascinates me.
     
  16. mojave_red

    mojave_red Active Member

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    I know nothing about surfing.
    However, given that the surfboard bag is 6.5' long, do you suppose he might have had plans to use it as a bivouac sack when he didn't want to put up the tent? Is that what is meant by "sleeping bag cover"?

    Would a sleeping bag and a person even fit in the surf board cover?
    Is it waterproof or even wind-proof?
     
  17. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the photos! Those rolls are sleeping pads. They're made out of "closed-cell foam": think, yoga mat. I have never seen a closed-cell foam mattress wrapped in a bag, since they aren't porous. Come to think of it, the UID didn't have a mattress. That seems very unusual to me. Because some potentially high end pieces of gear are missing from the site, I'm thinking someone stole them.

    Closed-cell foam mattress pads provide good insulation, but they're not comfortable unless you're a boy scout, because they're about 1/2 inch thick. If UID was lying down in the tent, he would have been on the pad (you don't go backpacking without a sleeping pad, because you'll freeze your butt). A closed-cell foam pad would not be especially attractive to a thief. However, if it had been a Thermarest (or generic), it might have been worth while to a thief to roll the body over and get it out.
     
  18. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Well-Known Member

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    An experienced backpacker would generally get off a trail somewhat to set up a camp. It's called "leave no trace" camping. Siting a camp this way makes it easier to cover up the location when you're ready to leave. The exception would be if there is a site that has been frequently used that is right near the trail.

    This was not an inexperienced backpacker.

    A dog with another hiker could easily have found the camp site and the body. However, it really looks to me as though someone has taken the most attractive items, except maybe the Sweetwater filter and the stove, depending on quality.

    I wish we had dimensions on that sack.....
     
  19. RickshawFan

    RickshawFan Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts are evolving.....

    We might want to consider the possibility that someone came upon the scene, stole some items, and left others. For instance, do we know whether those boots fit the feet? Were the socks on? Could the poncho have been left and someone took raingear? (A cheap poncho seems very unlikely to me, unless the weather was projected to be good for several days.) Maybe an intruder left the second map?

    Was the bear spray can empty? Bear spray is very expensive, by the way. Maybe $33 around 2000: attractive theft item. And you cannot take it on a plane.

    Where was the money? In the guy's underwear? In the shoe? Or in a wallet with no ID in it? (The guy might not have been a driver, so no DL.)

    Is there a way to enlarge the photos on the Doe Network?

    Is your understanding that the sack has the word Dartt on it? With two T's? AFAIK, the surfboard company has one T. Also, from the photo, the bag looks cylindrical. This, then, would likely belong to a mattress which is the standard width but extra long. 20" x 77". This would correspond to the fairly tall UID. He could have been slender, and not needed the usual Large, which measures 25"x 77" I wish we had a ruler next to the bag so we could get dimensions.

    Can anyone read the small print on the bag under the word Dartt?

    Now I see that although I thought degeneration in the back might not be that serious, analysis shows the man would have walked with pain. However, he was not that far along the trail. And he might have thought the tylenol would take care of it.

    Too bad we don't have the autopsy information. Is there a way to get it?
     
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  20. carbuff

    carbuff Well-Known Member

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    I know quite a few hikers who don't normally carry their ID with them into the mountains. They leave it locked in the glove box of their vehicle, figuring the odds of having it stolen are less than the odds of losing it when they fall in the water on a stream crossing, or whatever.

    ETA: afterthought -- some people with chronic pain just try to keep going right through it.
     

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