CO - Jessica Hernandez, 17, killed by police after LEO struck by stolen car

Discussion in 'Up to the Minute' started by al66pine, Jan 26, 2015.

  1. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    The fact that the driver was not pronounced dead at the scene does not mean that she was alive, and the fact that medical intervention was attempted does not mean that she was showing signs of life. If the driver had been shot through the heart, I do not think it unreasonable for a layperson to describe her as being dead. As for the "post-mortem" term, the Denver Post said this:
    This statement by the DP seems to be in error, as the medical report said that only some of the abrasions "appear postmortem".
    report.JPG
    Whatever the appropriateness of the term "post-mortem", it seems likely that the driver sustained the abrasions after she was shot through her heart and not before.
     


  2. Kimberlyd125

    Kimberlyd125 Softball is for everyone. Fast pitch is for athlet

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    When you are trying to secure a person who has just tried to kill you and you don't know if they are dead, handling them like a new born baby is not the first concern. They had to get her secured in handcuffs and searched. To limit risk.
    So, IMO she had to be dragged from the car, cuffed on the ground, and rolled to search her.

    While I realize words such as throwing around a corpse" seems to incite (typical in these cases), it does not do much for conversations regarding fact.

    JMO
     
  3. Yoda

    Yoda Master

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    I was looking for the initial dispatch call to the officer, the request for backup, and calls during and after confronting JH. I wanted to see the time each of these things happened and establish a timeline.
     
  4. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Fred Hall,
    Thanks for your post. My notes in red
    .

     
  5. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    sbm

    I was not suggesting that anyone said the driver sustained the abrasions prior to being shot. I was just emphasizing my main argument — that the abrasions were sustained after the chest wounds, and that it is unlikly a person will be kicking and struggling after having a bullet penetrate multiple chambers of their heart. That's my layperson's view — It would be interesting to have an expert comment on the matter.
     
  6. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    I'd like to hear an expert's comment too.
     
  7. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    report.JPG
    Apparently ecchymosis means bruising. How did the driver sustain these bruises to the sides of her neck, I wonder?
     
  8. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    From Fred Hall post: "Apparently ecchymosis means bruising." <No link or source.

    Per below, ecchymoses are different from bruises, in part based on etiology.

    First source
    "Specifically, bruises are caused by trauma whereas... ecchymoses "are not necessarily caused by trauma."

    Second source
    "Local leakage of blood into the skin from the capillaries that occurs spontaneously, without injury, and results in a flat, purplish discolored area is referred to as ecchymosis."

    ^Quoted^ from sources below.

    ETA:
    Not trying to say wiki or medicinenet are best sources for technical med info.
    I'd welcome input or correction from one of our many med professionals or from other sources.
    Thx in adv.

    ___________________________________________________________
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecchymosis
    "An ecchymosis ... is a subcutaneous purpura (extravasation of blood) larger than 1 centimeter or a hematoma, commonly called a bruise, though the terms are not interchangeable.[SUP][1][/SUP]
    Specifically,
    bruises are caused by trauma whereas ecchymoses, a type of purpura, are not necessarily caused by trauma.[SUP][2][/SUP][SUP]sbm
    [/SUP]"Etiology
    There are many causes of subcutaneous hematomas including ecchymoses. Coagulopathies such as Hemophilia A may cause ecchymosis formation in children.[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP]"[/SUP]
    [SUP]

    [/SUP]http://www.medicinenet.com/easy_bruising/symptoms.htm
    Bruises
    "Symptom Checker: Symptoms & Signs Index
    Medical Author: William C. Shiel Jr., MD, FACP, FACR
    "
    .
    "A bruise is a traumatic injury of the soft tissues that results in breakage of the local capillaries and leakage of red blood cells. In the skin, bruising can be seen as a reddish-purple discoloration that does not blanch when pressed upon. This discoloration leads to the classic "black and blue" appearance. When a bruise fades, it becomes green and brown as the body metabolizes the blood cells and bilirubin pigment in the skin. A bruise can sometimes be associated with a temporary raised area in the skin and is usually associated with some tenderness. A bruise is best treated with local application of a cold pack immediately after injury."
    .
    "A bruise is medically termed a contusion. Bruises are typically a result of some degree of injury to the blood vessels in the skin. Easy bruising may be a result of a seemingly insignificant compression of skin or there may be no skin injury recollected. Easy bruising can occur when the blood vessels are weakened by diseases (such as scurvy), medications (such as aspirin, prednisone, and prednisolone), and aging. Easy bruising can also occur because of absent or deficient blood-clotting elements. Local leakage of blood into the skin from the capillaries that occurs spontaneously, without injury, and results in a flat,purplish discolored area is referred to as ecchymosis. Ecchymosis is usually not associated with tenderness." bbm
    .
    "Medically Reviewed by a Doctor on 7/15/2014".
     
  9. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Yoda -
    Yesterday you said you were looking in scanner threads.
    "...for the initial dispatch call to the officer, .... to see the time each of these things happened and establish a timeline."sbm bbm
    What a great idea! I started a (halfazz) timeline template. Feel free to add times, as you nail down more info w. links to sources.
    Everyone is welcome to contrib. Thx in adv. Lots of events in ~1 hr.

    ______________cut & paste to add to Timeline Template ______________

    Timeline Jan 26...................................... a.m.
    .
    1 call to 911 ............................................
    2 initial dispatch call to LEO......................... 6:30
    _ LEO runs plates......................................
    _ LEO request for backup ...........................
    _ backup arrives .......................................
    _ __
    _ call while confronting?...............................
    _ call after confronting JH? ...........................
    _ LEOs discharge weapons ..........................
    _ LEO call for ambulance..............................
    _ ambulance arrives ...................................
    _ ambulance departs ..................................
    _ ambulance arrives hosp ER ......................
    _ hosp ER admits JH...................................
    # hosp ER pronounces her dead................... 7:29? per A/Rpt.
    # time of death......................................... 7:29
    ________________________________________________

    1 "According to Denver Police, an officer was called to the scene at 6:30 a.m. to investigate suspicious activity in the alleyway.
    http://www.wtsp.com/story/news/2015/01/27/teen-killed-in-denver-officer-involved-shooting/22408439/

    2.
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    # time of death per Autopsy Rpt. page 1 (?presumably based on hosp ER records?)
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/257233152/Jessica-Hernandez-Autopsy-Report
    ______________cut & paste to add to Timeline Template _______________________
     
  10. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    What if there never was a report of suspicious activity? Would that change things?
     
  11. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    capture.jpg
    This clip shows about a half second of censored amateur video taken of the mouth of the lane. A blur box has been applied over what I presume is the driver's body. According to google earth she is about 100 feet from where the stolen car rests. Did an officer carry her?
    635578618551599038-Still0126-00001_hires.jpg
    Google_Earth_cap.JPG
     
  12. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    capture.jpg
    Note that the blurred rectangle does not just cover the body lying on the ground &#8212; it has been extended upwards in order to obscure what I'm guessing is an officer leaning over the body. Why was he blurred out? Are they trying to conceal what the officer is doing?
     
  13. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    Cool J -
    Good question.
    IIUC, you are speculating about this -
    LEO on patrol in area noticed car w loud music & sitting in alley but no call to 911.
    He ran plates, learned car was reported stolen, and then same events.
    Would that change things?

    What if he drove by, noticed loud music, returned an hourlater, or two hours later, ran plates, etc. Change things?

    Are you asking whether, without a 911 call, an LEO may lawfully run plates?
    Does LEO need probable cause to run plates?
    Were his observations of car w loud music & occupants in alley, without 911 call, sufficient to run plates?

    Maybe LEO saw them passing a joint or smelled MJ. Or not. IDK.
     
  14. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    bbm

    Fred Hall,
    Thanks for posting these stills & vids & doing the measurement.
    Must have taken some time & effort to figure it out.

    Not much room for ambulance to squeeze into alley.
    Seems LE w/want to preserve scene, prevent ambu driving thru shell casings, etc.,even if 'extra' LEO vehicles were moved.

    Did LEOs move her from inside car to beside car, then EMTs moved her to alley end/mouth,
    then left her in place there for a bit -where vid was made?
    Or did LEOs move her from inside car, all the way, 100 feet, to alley end/mouth, left her there to wait for EMTs?
     
  15. al66pine

    al66pine Well-Known Member

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    First question - who applied the blur box? Amateur vid'er/cellphone user? TV station before airing vid? LE?
    One only or a combo of above?
     
  16. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    I think that EMTs would have taken the driver directly to the ambulance rather than placing her on the ground at the mouth of the lane.
     
  17. Fred Hall

    Fred Hall New Member

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    The blur box can be seen to spill over the edge of the smart-phone. This suggests that it was applied by the TV station.
     
  18. Yoda

    Yoda Master

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    Good find.
    I can't make out any thing because of the blur and speed of the clip shown, but I do wonder why JH is so far away from the vehicle. It's weird that no one, witnesses, etc. mentioned her being moved so far. My assumption from all we have found was that she was pulled from the vehicle, cuffed, rolled and then treated within 20 ft of the car.
     
  19. CoolJ

    CoolJ Well-Known Member

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    Yes that's right, I am asking about probable cause. Was the reason for running plates because 911 call or because a car full of teenagers. And does it matter? Was there a BOLO for the car? When was it determined car was stolen? Was car a strangers or family/friend?
    Too many questions in this case to form an opinion. IMO
     
  20. Yoda

    Yoda Master

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    In that same news report another passenger said she was shot too- flesh wound. I don't remember seeing that either.
     

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