Discussion in 'Jessica Ridgeway' started by nursebeeme, Oct 17, 2012.
Continue the discussion here:
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187312"]timeline and media no discussion thread[/ame]
Jessica's memorial thread: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187561"]Found Deceased CO - Memorial Thread for Jessica Ridgeway - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8433249#post8433249"]thread #2[/ame] [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8437795#post8437795"]thread #3[/ame] thread #4 [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187393"]thread #5[/ame] [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187444"]thread #6[/ame] [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187518"]thread #7[/ame] thread #8 [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187725"]thread #9[/ame]
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187810"]thread #10[/ame][ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187916"] thread #11[/ame]
New9 Live feed: http://www.9news.com/video/player_live_2.aspx
Denver Live feed: http://denver.cbslocal.com/live-video/
(Thank you Knox!!!!)
Amandareckonwith's case archive
rules on RSOs
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91068"]New Rules on Sex Offenders and Rumors - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
Here is the thread on RSOs.
You can link to RSOs in the area. You cannot sleuth them other than what is listed on this thread. If you have a question about a particular case and a particular RSO and what can and cannot be posted in depth you can post your question for administration on this thread.
((please note: questioning of what can and cannot be posted and moderation questions should not be placed on the general discussion thread. I hope that helps. If anyone has a further question please pm a moderator or administrator.))
From the Wesminster Police Department Facebook page
"The FBI has been able to rule out the Wyoming abductor in our case."
Posted 50 minutes ago.
Thanks to b2alicia for bringing this to our attention. :cheers:
3000 people attend memorial for Jessica
I have not seen the memorial service or heard the minister's words but I wonder if LE asked him to say anything in particular during the service.....something that might in some way "Speak" to the perp? Bizarre...but it could happen.
Not too long ago Dateline NBC was doing a series on their sunday show where they filmed kids. One was younger kids being approached by strangers (all staged and perfectly safe) and the parents were able to see how they reacted. I watched some of it, was very interesting as you can imagine.
Here are two links to Channel 7's coverage....
I have watched some of those specials. It is shocking. Parents were shocked too at how easily their Child was lured despite what they have been told.
"Just a random thought in the education of children (and adults) regarding abduction. It was years ago on a talk show an expert was discussing what to teach your children. My point being he really emphasized that Children need to know even if a knife is in their back or a gun pointed they need to run and make noise. Odds are the perp is going to take off. He really hammered home that once a perp gets you to a secondary location your chances of survival are slim to none. Not to let the fear of being shot or stabbed be your biggest fear. I dont hear that often today then again perhaps i miss it. I dont have a link as it was so long ago I dont even remember the mans name. I just thought it was an excellent point to instill aside from the usual. "
Bravo's post brought over from last thread, because I couldn't agree more, and it's good to see this reiterated!
I too remember hearing to NEVER go with a perpetrator. Just do not go. Fight the being taken from the spot they approach you with all your might! Even the gun they may be wielding they are not likely to use in the spot where they are trying to take you, as it is too risky and not their primary goal.
~Grouphug~ to all and wishing for a day with some justice. Off to fulfill my pledges
Apologies if I am repeating the thoughts of others in previous posts. These threads are growing faster than I can read them. But I have some thoughts on this case. Not sure if they're useful, but I can't help thinking about this poor little girl and how much I want them to catch the evil, vile creature that perpetrated this hideous crime.
The Placement of the Backpack:
1. Searches were being conducted of vehicles in the vicinity of JR’s neighbourhood in the days after her disappearance. The perpetrator has the backpack in his vehicle, fears detection, takes a detour and discards the backpack outside the first dark house (occupants admitted they were out on the night the backpack was dropped - until after midnight). That being the case, the Perpetrator is likely a local.
2. It was as Nursebeeme suggested, a diversion as searches started to focus near to where JR’s body was finally found. Perpretrator may, or may not be a local.
3. It was simply a brazen “statement” to LE. Perpretrator may, or may not be a local.
Street and location names as a “message” to LE:
I apply Occam’s Razor here. I do not put any credence into the notion that street names “Alpha” and “Andrew”, or a location named “Superior” were strategically selected by the perpetrator. Personally, I think any link being proposed between these names is very thin, and find the notion of the perpetrator sending messages in this manner is a long stretch. No offence to others, I just don't see it.
Location of JR’s body:
If JR’s body was lying in such an exposed location, beside a roadside, in an area near to one of the focuses of searches, how was it not discovered earlier? Helicopters were scouring open spaces for several days prior to her discovery, eventually by trash collectors from the road.
1. She was not placed there until near to the time of discovery.
2. She was placed in the culvert, and was subsequently moved by animals.
3. She was placed there, but animals made her location more obvious, by tearing at a garbage bag for instance.
What was the state of decomposition of her body? This would obviously help to pinpoint time of death and help narrow down timeframes to trigger witness accounts. What could hinder these calculations is lack of knowledge of how long her body had been exposed to elements that accelerate or hinder decomposition.
I imagine they could also analyse the state of digestion of the Granola Bar JR had for breakfast the morning of her disappearance. Could this be used to determine time of death? If little digestion had occurred, at least her ordeal was relatively short. If fully digested, would this indicate that she was alive for some time? Or does the body continue to digest post-mortem.
JR’s body “not intact”:
Personally, I feel any “dismemberment” if indeed it was undertaken by the perpetrator, was not to delay identification, rather to eliminate key DNA evidence (e.g. under fingernails, or in teeth, if JR fought as I imagine she did – brave, smart girl that she was).
Nailing down key times at key locations:
The more data LE can collate to determine times of travel in key locations, the better chance they have of picking up patterns of data linkage.
Windows of opportunity include:
1. Time leading up to the abduction in Winchester
2. Time of the abduction in Winchester
3. Time of the backpack drop in Superior
4. Time her body was left in Pattridge Park
Nailing down these times will assist with:
1. Analysing CCTV footage from traffic monitoring cameras and businesses in feeder streets, and on major thoroughfares. If no movement is found from external locations, it would support the notion of a “local” perpetrator.
2. Analysing Phone Tower Pings that are present in the key locations and timeslots above.
3. Narrowing down witness reports and tips based upon the perpetrator’s likely movements
Will be interesting to see if the CIA’s Linked Data analysis helps lead to an arrest. I’d like to think they can, they should have a *lot* of data. How good is the perpetrator at covering ALL tracks? It remains to be seen...
I hope he has slipped up, and this pathetic vermin is off our streets – sooner rather than later.
Gavin de Becker really stresses this in Protecting the Gift (the companion book for The Gift of Fear). Follow your instincts and NEVER go willingly - that's what the perps want is a nice, compliant victim that doesn't cause a scene at the time of the abduction. Bite, kick, scream. Anything...
Thank You. That's who the man was I had heard on whatever talk show it was.
When I heard the minister say that "Jess had won" (it bothered me too when he said that), but I think it was a message directly to the perpetrator that he is the loser and that Jessica is the winner and it is true, look at how many people love her and celebrate her.
Going to have to stop reading every post. Med schools getting crazy and just can't keep up with it. Will drop in for updates. Keep up the great work guys!
I went reading over the personals on craigs list for westmister. I know better then to do it but I can see how alot of people would fit the profile .
One guy post for weekend fun ,in his office and he has a bed. It shows you the murder really doesnt have to live alone he just has to be at least as creative as the married idoits on craiglist looking for a place to be the freaks their spouses dont know they are.
I agreed with the vast majority of your post and snipped out what I wanted to add comments on.
Depending on the exact location of Jessica's remains in relationship to the road and the state of those remains, it may be that it was placed there as soon as Friday (more likely after dark).
In my experience, people vastly overestimate how much they see when they are driving. Even if the car is just creeping along at 10 mph, a passenger tends to have the illusion they can see everything they could if they were walking but they really can't. My impression is that the stretch of road Jessica's remains were found on had a speed limit much higher than 15 mph, maybe as high as 55 mph (locals?).
If her remains were such that they didn't form the outline of a human body or the angle in relationship to the road was such that people on the road didn't see the outline of a human body, then many people could have passed her remains without realising it. For instance, people tend to readily catch a full frontal or full rear outline of a body but do not easily identify a body seen from the angle of the feet looking towards the head.
Also, drivers should be paying attention to the road. If her body was visible near the road, then I'm actually pleased that drivers didn't spot it because that means they were paying attention to driving. I don't know about Colorado but in Iowa, this is the time of year when many animals are spotted or killed on roadsides because the young animals have mostly left their mothers and all the animals are travelling to forage before winter sets in. Drivers should never forget that they are controlling a large and potentially lethal machine that warrants close attention to what they are doing.
As for digestion, it slows down and stops within the first 30 minutes or so of death. It does depend on age, on the person's body mass, on what was eaten, activity level after eating, etc. It can vary widely.
Time of death can be estimated but it is only an estimate and may not be even remotely correct, depending on the specific circumstances.
For instance, my father is an anesthesiologist and I clearly remember him describing one case he saw in surgery. A man whose ulcer had created a lot of scar tissue such that it blocked off the outlet of the stomach waited several days to see his doctor and had rather non-specific symptoms. My father was amazed to see the surgeon remove the clearly recognisable remains of the whole orange that the patient had eaten 8 days prior to the surgery. My father said that it looked and smelled like an orange with very little digestion evident.
The patient survived the surgery and I hope he enjoyed telling the tale. It was certainly a strange incident but it illustrates that food can survive inside a human stomach for quite a long time without showing significant evidence of digestion. If that man had been killed 7 days after eating that orange, his time of death would probably have been estimated as occurring within hours of eating the orange but that would not be correct.
Eventually whatever was in the digestive tract will decompose along with the body but decomposition is distinctive from digestion.
The person chose an isolated area, crossed under the barbed wire fence at a drainage culvert, and left the body on a hillside. It's still not confirmed if the body is Jessica's.
I keep wondering, since it's such wide open space and hilly, why wouldn't the perp come thru the BACK way on an ATV or something? Those barbed fences are pretty low...going UNDER that would run the risk of them ripping clothing or getting scratched. Although, MAYBE they DID and LE has clothing or blood evidence???
But, I mean, people ride ATV's in terrain like that, it would, IMO, be less noticable than a car pulled over to the side of the road...again, IMO....and just another option no matter how stupid it seems...LOL (AND, I haven't done my homework to see if ATV's are even allowed)
I so agree with many posts on here.
I DO think her body was frozen before this POS dismembered it.
I DO think it's someone in the general vicinity...AND within the school "system".
IMO, I honestly believe this person thinks they're so darn smart and are just so proud of themself and their "handy work".
I believe they think they "blend in" so well, they'll NEVER be considered a suspect.
And, also, a power freak....with a temper when things don't go his way, or people "won't listen".
I don't think little Jessica "listened" when he tried to get her in his car.
It almost HAS to be someone in the area, with all the bizarre kidnapping attempts going on. But, then again, that's just me, I guess hoping this SOB is caught sooner than later.
Officer Sanford Strong was on Oprah talking about this in 1991. I still remember it because it made such an impact on me.
Separate names with a comma.