CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #10

[susiQ]

JMHO and Speculation but since the neighbor confirmed his truck was at her house on Thanksgiving around 1-1:30pm which was after KB returned from the store (assuming she did return since he has the child and her vehicles were also in the driveway with his parked behind hers), thinking she went with him on a trip into the woods to get a tree, or talk, or have a meal as supported by her mother's comments. Perhaps if they had broken up in the days before or agreed to stay living apart for now, that she was going to pursue child support, and that he would also subsequently end up not seeing their daughter as much. I know it's speculation but she could also be pregnant which he did or did not know. Those things (leaving, money stress, losing your g/f and family, just losing control) can scare men into doing things that are out of character.

Welcome sunshineandlove! Never even considered that she may have become pregnant again. And, yes this has sent others "over the edge" if the relationship isn't what it appears.

 

[Deleted member 155000]

I look at the news or Twitter every once in a while because, to me, the second entourage of vehicles who did a “follow up” on his property & his trash being confiscated from the dump make it appear as if they are closing in.

 

[PrairieWind]

Here is the truth. People are hating him not because we have evidence against him. We simply have nothing and he lawyered up and is not giving interviews.

We are blaming him in the court of opinions.

And now imagine this - she is found, and he is not guilty? My 15% chance.

How would we look? Asking to destroy his business without solid evidence? Him being the sole provider for the child? Driving him onto the street with this poor child?

It is one thing to voice our opinions. But honestly - we don't know much about Kelsey, either! I can't say anything about her, her family is silent, except for someone cussing on the FB; her ex is silent. Her old friends are silent. Her coworkers are silent. LE is silently chasing some rubbish now. We don't know much. If there is animal maltreatment, let PETA deal with it. I don't know much about dogs so I don't know.

We can voice ideas but we are all going in the same direction. It is ok but we can't stone without a fair trial.

I have to agree totally. Its one thing for people to speculate about PF and voice their opinions. But its a totally different thing to advocate for actual action against him or his business, against a man who has not even been charged. Especially since we don't know any of these people ourselves and only hear bits and pieces of information that we can't verify. Trying to affirmatively pressure PF or damage his business is dangerous and wrong and quite likely in my opinion to backfire. Lets let the police handle this.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Welcome sunshineandlove! Never even considered that she may have become pregnant again. And, yes this has sent others "over the edge" if the relationship isn't what it appears.

The theory of her potentially being pregnant is an interesting one. I hadn’t considered it either but it makes sense.

 

[oviedo]

I look at the news or Twitter every once in a while because, to me, the second entourage of vehicles who did a “follow up” on his property & his trash being confiscated from the dump make it appear as if they are closing in.

I was thinking that as well. Since the FBI is involved I really believe they have the cellphone data and know the movements of the respective parties. I watched an old FBI Files last night with Brad Garrett as an agent - 1989! - and they put up surveillance cameras on a public utility pole and watched a suspect for a week to discover who he was seeing, who else could have been involved in the murders. They also had trap/trace on the phones - it made me wonder if they can wiretap a cellphone? I would love to know what is in that warrant. The case was the coffee shop murders - Cooper was the suspect - 3 people gunned down senselessly - one was just 18.

 

[allboys]

Mine is similar. I’m at about 90% PF/9% another perp known to her/less than 1% accident or self-initiated.

I leave room for the 9% both because of outcomes of other cases I followed here on WS and because there are so many unknowns still. If video footage in the area or on the road to Idaho contradicted PF’s story, that’d push me over the edge toward PF.

But since herfamily has indicated they do believe she “could” be out there, have asked truckers to be on the lookout, and have said the reason her missing person report was filed so late is a “long story” we will understand later...and since LE initially did say “if Kelsey is out there and doesn’t want to be found, just contact us and let us know” (paraphrase), it makes me think there’s a possibility she could’ve gone on a trip with another person. And obviously did not come back, which to me, seems like someone more than likely harmed her...

My feeling on KB’s family initially saying to be on the lookout for her (truckers etc.) is that those statements, I believe, were all made earlier on in the investigation. They possibly didn’t have as much information or reason for suspicion. They needed to have hope. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t noticed any very RECENT messages from her immediate family to be on the lookout for her. Asking for people to call in if they saw her (in the past) would have a different purpose.

In other words, my impression is that the family initially felt like people should be looking for her, but likely today, they probably feel differently. Unfortunately. MOO

 

[Lhughessk]

I think that was his excuse for her not being around or going to dinner on Thanksgiving... "she broke up with me". Would also explain why her mom wanted the comment deleted if she suspected it wasn't true. JMO

We haven’t been told what the supposed text from KB to PF was - I wonder if it was something along the lines of, “I’ve been thinking since our breakup the other day, that I need to get away and clear my head. I’m going to grandma’s and would appreciate you looking after the baby for the next week or so.” Something along those lines.

So now he’s got his cover story of the breakup and the trip to explain why he wouldn’t have talked to her after that or why he didn’t consider it his responsibility to check on her, since they were no longer together.

 

[PommyMommy]

JMHO and Speculation but since the neighbor confirmed his truck was at her house on Thanksgiving around 1-1:30pm which was after KB returned from the store (assuming she did return since he has the child and her vehicles were also in the driveway with his parked behind hers), thinking she went with him on a trip into the woods to get a tree, or talk, or have a meal as supported by her mother's comments. Perhaps if they had broken up in the days before or agreed to stay living apart for now, that she was going to pursue child support, and that he would also subsequently end up not seeing their daughter as much. I know it's speculation but she could also be pregnant which he did or did not know. Those things (leaving, money stress, losing your g/f and family, just losing control) can scare men into doing things that are out of character.

Welcome to Websleuths, sunshineandlove! Great first post - just one minor detail - the neighbor saw PF's truck between 12:30 and 1:00 pm. Looking forward to hearing more of your thoughts.
MOO

 

[Bill Carson]

And I also think there’s about a snowballs chance in hell that she left on her own accord, on foot, without anything and hasn’t contacted her distraught family at this point. From all sources who have spoken, she isn’t a woman who would do this to her child and family.

BBM

From all sources we can discuss here. As in any case, there may be other information circulating that we don't discuss on WS because the source is not sufficiently authenticated and vetted enough to be deemed reliable.

 

[susiQ]

Did you see the interviews with her mom, cousin, Dad’s friend, pastor, brother in law, neighbor etc.?

I think many of us distrust him for a number of reasons. For me, it's his lack of concern, only wanting to protect himself. Since his lawyer and CB say it was a "good" relationship how can he not put his legal "rights" aside and step up to the plate? Just speaking for myself here, I would disregard any possible scrutiny that would come my way and speak out and help in any way possible and that would include being accused of something I didn't do. It's going to happen regardless. But that's me. I would be desperate for my loved one to be found. Instead, his entire family appears to be in hiding, like Kelsey never meant anything to them. A line from "Emma" comes to mind, "Badly done Emma!" Badly, indeed.

 

[Kapua]

Everyone has noticed article to article that either she dropped the baby off or he picked up the baby. The neighbor says she saw his truck there between 12:30 and 1 pm. I wonder if he picked up the baby and it is himself that changed the story that she dropped the baby off. Maybe because he doesn’t want to be placed at the crime scene that day should they find any evidence. I fully believe he picked the baby up.

I think the most likely possibility is that on Nov. 22 she took her purse and their child and departed her residence with him in his vehicle (truck), and her home is in the exact same condition as it was on that day. I don't think she dropped off or he picked up the child. I think they most likely were going to pick up a tree or out to dinner. MOO

 

[Deleted member 155000]

My feeling on KB’s family initially saying to be on the lookout for her (truckers etc.) is that those statements, I believe, were all made earlier on in the investigation. They possibly didn’t have as much information or reason for suspicion. They needed to have hope. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I haven’t noticed any very RECENT messages from the family to be on the lookout for her. Asking for people to call in if they saw her (in the past) would have a different purpose.

In other words, my impression is that the family initially felt like people should be looking for her, but likely today, they probably feel differently. Unfortunately. MOO

I have heard family say, repeatedly, it would be unlike her to leave without telling anyone.

But I do think they are still talking like she may have been taken somewhere else...or that the explanation might not involve PF.

This is from an interview her cousin did the day before yesterday:

“As the days and weeks have passed since Berreth disappeared on Thanksgiving Day, Garretson said she is convinced something is wrong. But she doesn’t know what it could be. Although she never met her cousin’s fiancé, Patrick Frazee, his reputation within her family is good. She had never heard that there was anything wrong with the relationship.”

 

[PommyMommy]

Did the lawyer statement use past tense? Had or Has?

Present tense.

Kelsey Berreth's Fiance Is a 'Gentle Soul' Who Would Never Hurt Anyone, Friend Says
“Like most relationships it has ups and downs but for the most part it's a good relationship,” Frazee’s lawyer said of his client’s relationship with Berreth when he spoke to Inside Edition.

 

[allboys]

The theory of her potentially being pregnant is an interesting one. I hadn’t considered it either but it makes sense.

<modsnip - topic not allowed>Personally, I don’t really wonder too much about it. I think we already know there was all kinds of reason for conflict/stress between KB and PF, so there’s obviously reason to be concerned, pregnancy or not. But as we saw with CW, a new pregnancy was a factor...

ETA- I don’t mean to make it sound like it wouldn’t be even more tragic if she had been pregnant, of course, it would be (if no longer living).

MOO

 

[Mae’s Friend]

If a stranger attacked her inside her residence there likely would be signs that a struggle occurred. I have not seen any reporting of such evidence. If PF was the perpetrator, and planned this out rather than acting in a fit of rage, he could have avoided creating such an obvious evidence trail. A couple of people responding to an earlier post commented that they were 90/9/1 or 95/5 — leaving the door open for the very reasonable possibility that PF is innocent and something else has befallen KB. I agree and might even go to 80/20 assuming there is a lot of evidence that is not publicly available. When I was a state level prosecutor I tried cases when I was not certain of guilt and in those cases had access to all of evidence.

 

[Lhughessk]

To me, it doesn’t even come down to if she would do something like that.

I consider it irrelevant, as it doesn’t change the details here.

Had she decided to run away, or harm herself in some manner, would it look like this?

Is there a logical explanation for her leaving her vehicles, the cell phone activity (text messages and ping), and her leaving absolutely no trace of herself.

If you are trying to disappear, there are preparations to be made.

Even if you make these preparations, people are likely to see you at some point.

Surveillance cameras are everywhere.

If you intend to harm yourself, then there is no need to leave a trail of breadcrumbs.

I’ve followed numerous cases where people do all sorts of bizarre things.

But they don’t look like how this looks.

And this looks like one thing.

Foul play.

And even if we weren’t reviewing all the details - even if all we knew was that a woman disappeared and her fiancé was the last person known to see her - statistics say there is a 70% chance that the significant other made her disappear. That’s per Nancy Grace the other night on Nightline.

I don’t know about you guys but if the chance of rain is 70%, I take my umbrella.

 

[Gardener1850]

Present tense.

Kelsey Berreth's Fiance Is a 'Gentle Soul' Who Would Never Hurt Anyone, Friend Says
“Like most relationships it has ups and downs but for the most part it's a good relationship,” Frazee’s lawyer said of his client’s relationship with Berreth when he spoke to Inside Edition.

Thanks Pommy! Interesting... This lawyer is smart. JMO.

 

[Kapua]

People want to develop a theory in which KB is still alive. I understand and respect that. So here it is: It is remotely possible that someone is holding her against her will.

 

[Inthedetails]

I think the most likely possibility is that on Nov. 22 she took her purse and their child and departed her residence with him in his vehicle (truck), and her home is in the exact same condition as it was on that day. I don't think she dropped off or he picked up the child. I think they most likely were going to pick up a tree or out to dinner. MOO

I don' t think there was a baby exchange on Thanksgiving either. It think KB and baby went shopping, then all three were together, and then it was just PF and baby.

The "exchange" was when KB wasn't there anymore.

Hunch only.
jmo

 

[Denvergirl]

I like your theory. I would like to add to it -
While they go run their errand (tree hunting, buying presents, whatever) it gives the opportunity for his accomplice to hide in her unit. I think PB got to her house early while she was out shopping and made it convenient for someone to enter her residence by leaving a door or window unlocked. When he drops her back off that is when the act happens. PB never got his hands dirty. He doesn't want his daughter to witness all this. Accomplice took care of her and dumps her body nearby. Afterwards, he drives to ID area to send texts and then throws her cell phone away (possibly a body of water where it will likely never be found). I think this accomplice is someone he has worked with in the past and may not even live in CO. I believe he was paid to do the deed. JMO and one of a couple theories I've narrowed down. I hope I'm wrong of course.

This theory definitely presumed it was premeditated. I’m having a hard time thinking that someone would plan to something on thanksgiving day?