CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #31 *ARREST*

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I haven't taken the time to count all of the people in their staff picture, but my opinion is that PF has got plenty of manpower on his public defense team.........and yes.....they have full time investigators. Which ones are they in the staff photograph? I haven't got a clue.
Colorado Springs | Office of the Colorado State Public Defender
i think mysterian was asking about a PI on R couple office staff. maybe the PI in the R office is Mrs. R. she seemed like the ask a lot of questions type. just my opinion.
 
Dave F Thanks for your reply.

Both scenarios you describe seem to have evidence leaving the direct possession of LE, IMO. Mail has been known to get lost/stolen/destroyed/damaged while in the delivery stream. I would think sensitive evidence in a possible murder investigation would be subject to the strictest chain of custody requirements (I.e. never leaving LE possession), but that's JMO. I'm not LE or in the legal field.

ETA: tried to reply, website keeps reloading
My guess is that the RR's are correct.....the FBI took Krystal's phone on Dec. 17th. The FBI never uses couriers. Coincidentally, the central electronic data processing center for the FBI is in Pocatello, Idaho; but my guess is that the phone itself went from FBI deputy special agent/Pocatello, who KK handed it to, FBI special agent in Salt Lake City office, to FBI forensics lab in Quantico, Virginia. That would be the normal routing.
IMO
 
In cases where the perp knows the victim, and other than killing children, I don't think I've ever seen someone so harmless as Kelsey. She wasn't some controlling hag; she wasn't trying to screw him out of money or property; she wasn't a liability in any way. Had her own place and a decent job with a promising future. Her last conversations with her mom didn't indicate distress, as though she and PF got in some big fight. She strikes me as though if they'd broken up that she'd still be fair with making sure he had quality time with baby K. I just don't see anything that would have provoked him. All I can think of is that he was afraid she might leave Colorado, with the dissolution of marriage plans, and feared losing the baby.

Speculation: I’m not so sure it would have been fear of losing the baby, as much as it would have been how PF appeared a failure for not being able to stop Kelsey from moving on. If there was any indication that Kelsey would move, which we haven’t seen so far, perhaps his mother was putting pressure on him ... she no doubt wouldn’t want to lose her granddaughter.

I think PF had come to realize that he couldn’t control Kelsey ... she had purchased her own home, had her own career, and appeared to be surviving well without him, other than for child care. Perhaps at one time he’d asked her to move onto the ranch with his mother, and she’d refused. I sense there had to have been some things that angered him, besides maybe being resentful of the pregnancy in the first place, which resulted in him planning to get rid of her. Maybe he figured he wouldn’t have to pay child support if she were gone, but I sense it was much more than that. JMHO ...
 
i think mysterian was asking about a PI on R couple office staff. maybe the PI in the R office is Mrs. R. she seemed like the ask a lot of questions type. just my opinion.
Personal injury attorneys use all kinds of "employees". Some might be insiders in the organizations medical and insurance organizations that the lawyer's practice associates with or against. It is also not unusual for a PI attorney to employ private investigators.
Mrs, R is a paralegal, a duty which I believe does involve some rudimentary investigative skills. As to what she actually does on the job, I don't know.
IMO
 
My guess is that the RR's are correct.....the FBI took Krystal's phone on Dec. 17th. The FBI never uses couriers. Coincidentally, the central electronic data processing center for the FBI is in Pocatello, Idaho; but my guess is that the phone itself went from FBI deputy special agent/Pocatello, who KK handed it to, FBI special agent in Salt Lake City office, to FBI forensics lab in Quantico, Virginia. That would be the normal routing.
IMO
i'm not sure what you mean by "the fbi never uses couriers" but from reading this linked document it appears they do suggest using usps/ups/fedex for transfer of evidence.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/handbook-of-forensic-services-pdf.pdf

bottom of page 4.
 
good question. if LE in general has questions about protocol for exchange of evidence then they are not as advanced as i thought. but i remember reading somewhat recently that LE had come to the conclusion after the case had advanced that the particular evidence in this question of transfer was no longer considered that important to the case. when i read that i thought it was strange.
Remember that the Twin Falls County Sheriff said he received requests from the WP Police, the CBI, and the FBI. All he has said since is that his department served warrants, collected and processed some evidence, and was negotiating the method of delivering that evidence. So who was he negotiating with.....the WPP, CBI or FBI? I don't know. If the WPP said they were no longer interested, I'm not prepared to conclude that no one else was, either.
IMO
 
I’ve done long drives as well. Generally there are multiple stops for gas, at which we also combined a food and bathroom break.

My bf and I made a 1300 mile drive a few years ago with no overnight stays or anything, but we switched off driving, with one sleeping when not behind the wheel.

In this case, we’re talking about a 1,600 mile drive. Kk would’ve had to have driven 300 miles more than my bf and I did together, and we both passed out within minutes of getting to our destination and slept for many hours.

Unless she had a second driver, I believe she needed to get some rest in between.

I do believe she could have left early Sunday morning, and likely did. I’m just saying that I doubt she drove 800 miles, picked up a phone then turned around and drove another 800 miles.

It’s one thing to drive that distance when you plan to stay a while at your destination. It’s much more difficult to turn around and make another drive of that same distance within a short period of time.

I believe she - and most people in general- would need hours in between such drives to sleep. She also had to get the plan straight with PF.

I don’t believe your average person would make that long of a drive then turn around and go right back.

I also don’t believe a person would make that kind of drive unless there was some kind of benefit for them.

And if she was hung up on PF, I don’t believe she would’ve made that long of a drive to see him long enough to just pick up the phone.

JMO.

Oh I completely agree, I don’t think she drove there and turned around to drive back. She most likely was there for a couple of days at least. I also believe she was there on Thanksgiving and took part in the plan and action to murder KB. I wonder when exactly she did arrive in CO and how frequently she visited.

I think KK is involved up to her cowgirl boots and hope she isn’t getting off easy with a plea deal. She put a lot of time and effort into this whole plan, even more so than PF IMO because she traveled 800 miles, had to leave her family, cover her arse and take time off work most likely. MOO
 
i'm not sure what you mean by "the fbi never uses couriers" but from reading this linked document it appears they do suggest using usps/ups/fedex for transfer of evidence.
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/handbook-of-forensic-services-pdf.pdf
The FBI Special Agent delivers it to the airport in an FBI car, hands it to the pilot (not the ground crew person), there is an FBI special agent waiting at the other end to walk out to the plane and get the package. Someone signs for every change of possession. Any communication about it is on an FBI form, and everyone who sees or hears it initials the form, then it is kept on file forever. There are several notable cases on the FBI website where you can see these documents for yourself, and trace the exact transfer process. In the DB Cooper case, one can trace transfers from 47 years ago. Like anything governmental, tracing requires a lot of time and patience, but the chain is there.
 
Remember that the Twin Falls County Sheriff said he received requests from the WP Police, the CBI, and the FBI. All he has said since is that his department served warrants, collected and processed some evidence, and was negotiating the method of delivering that evidence. So who was he negotiating with.....the WPP, CBI or FBI? I don't know. If the WPP said they were no longer interested, I'm not prepared to conclude that no one else was, either.
IMO
I'm wondering if it's something that has to stay refrigerated in order to preserve it. That could prove a bit tricky,as too the chain of who is keeping watch over it.
MOO
 
I'm wondering if it's something that has to stay refrigerated in order to preserve it. That could prove a bit tricky,as too the chain of who is keeping watch over it.
MOO
Evidence that must be preserved is generally kept and transferred in evidence containers that are similar to the ones used to fly donated organs, but there are a huge variety of sizes, shapes and purposes. In the proper container, it would seem to me to be the same transfer process as any other evidence:
ShopEVIDENT.com
 
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Evidence that must be preserved is generally kept and transferred in evidence containers that are similar to the ones used to fly donated organs, but there are a huge variety of sizes, shapes and purposes. In the proper container, it would seem to me to be the same transfer process as any other evidence:
ShopEVIDENT.com
Not if the opposing side could glob on to said evidence chain of possession. LE has to dot every i,and cross every T.
 
Maybe she flew. Has that been ruled out?
MOO
The flight schedules are not easy to make work with the 5:13 time for Gooding. You have multiple connecting flights for most flight options and a handful of one connecting flight options. I don't know if you could fly directly to Boise out of either Colorado Springs or Denver. Most flight options have you flying to Boise via Seattle or Salt Lake City. A lot of the flight options out of Colorado Springs will fly you to Denver first. And then there is the final connection to Twin Falls - which isn't easy to make work because of the limited flights that exist. So, it would seem that driving back and forth between Boise and Twin Falls to facilitate flying is an easier option. Expedia is helpful (or other flight booking sites) to investigate these options.

Also, without staying past Saturday the cost of the ticket is higher than it otherwise would be in case cost is a factor.
 
The FBI Special Agent delivers it to the airport in an FBI car, hands it to the pilot (not the ground crew person), there is an FBI special agent waiting at the other end to walk out to the plane and get the package. Someone signs for every change of possession. Any communication about it is on an FBI form, and everyone who sees or hears it initials the form, then it is kept on file forever. There are several notable cases on the FBI website where you can see these documents for yourself, and trace the exact transfer process. In the DB Cooper case, one can trace transfers from 47 years ago. Like anything governmental, tracing requires a lot of time and patience, but the chain is there.
oh i agree there are cases where what you suggest does happen. but in your scenario what happens when there is a rather large piece of evidence? the fbi agent "hands it to the pilot"? does the pilot, then using a hand truck or forklift, then move the piece to the cockpit? so you are saying that in all cases of evidence transfer the only method the fbi uses is the one you describe? handing to the pilot?
 
She put a lot of time and effort into this whole plan, even more so than PF IMO because she traveled 800 miles, had to leave her family, cover her arse and take time off work most likely. MOO

She could have had the entire 4-day Thanksgiving Holiday off.

Most pre-op RN’s work M-F, with call allocated on weekend and holidays for emergencies by schedule. So, it’s entirely possible the hospital was closed for regular surgeries on Friday and the days 11/22 - 11/25 were entirely covered by call personnel. KK would not have to have asked for time off or have been conspicuous by her absence.

I wonder if this factored into PF’s decision to murder KB and dispose of evidence over this 4-day time frame that would not be apparent to others.
 
Kelsey Berreth’s parents file civil lawsuit vs. Patrick Frazee

(Sorry if this has already been covered)

What confuses me is that during CB’s interview she said that she thought that the relationship between KB & PF was loving. However when CB filed the civil suit it specifically says that they are accusing PF of inflicting physical, mental and emotional acts of violence towards KB PRIOR to her death.

These statements don’t match up.

Do you think that CB was fibbing about the loving relationship on TV since she knew that PF had baby K and she didn’t want to anger him or accuse him of violence towards KB because he may do something bad/flee the country with baby K?

Or do you think this is just an “after the fact” statement based on the information she has now gathered from those closest to KB & PF during their relationship. Are KBs friends telling KB’s mom & dad that PF had been acting violent towards KB prior to her death?

Super confusing.

This could be to cover the time before death including the manner with any planning included which definitely did not keep her safe.
 
The flight schedules are not easy to make work with the 5:13 time for Gooding. You have multiple connecting flights for most flight options and a handful of one connecting flight options. I don't know if you could fly directly to Boise out of either Colorado Springs or Denver. Most flight options have you flying to Boise via Seattle or Salt Lake City. A lot of the flight options out of Colorado Springs will fly you to Denver first. And then there is the final connection to Twin Falls - which isn't easy to make work because of the limited flights that exist. So, it would seem that driving back and forth between Boise and Twin Falls to facilitate flying is an easier option. Expedia is helpful (or other flight booking sites) to investigate these options.

Also, without staying past Saturday the cost of the ticket is higher than it otherwise would be in case cost is a factor.

Twin Falls to Denver. Rent car to drive to Florissant. I looked at the schedule and it came up to about 7 hours each way travel time.

HOWEVER, this would have been over the T-day holiday and airline traffic is usually overbooked, especially for that return flight 11/25 and she would have to have booked quite far in advance, IMHOO.

Flying that route over the holiday doesn’t make sense to me.
 
Maybe she flew. Has that been ruled out?
MOO
I don't think it should be ruled out, Pommy. IMO flying would have made it much easier for KK...to send the texts and dispose of the phone. Driving 12 hours then swinging up to Gooding seems like a very long day. Perhaps she turned the phone on, over Gooding, as plane was circling for landing. Then turned it back off once messages were sent. I have read that cell phones will try to connect with nearest cell tower as you fly if you do leave it off airplane mode. Then she could have disposed of phone anywhere after landing. This is all just me conjecturing. I know it is required to put phone in airplane mode or turn it off while flying but i imagine some people forget or willfully ignore the rule. Or if plane had wifi on board a quick on/off of KB phone to dend the pre-loaded messages might have worked as well. Only problem is I dont know the flight trajectories denver to twin falls (if plane actually goes over Gooding area in preparation to land). LE might be keeping passenger lists to themselves. IMO.
Just some thoughts. MOOMOOMOO.
 
I keep going back to my theory that there was no romance between PF and KK but they knew each other for quite some time. I think there is a male involved who also knew PF for a long time and KK is involved to some degree via that person. I think they tracked KK thru cell communications and she hasn’t been arrested yet because she’s spilled the beans and is working with the FBI on bringing the other person down to buy herself lesser charges. They may have confirmed they she never left TF but was still involved. We don’t know.
We're all developing theories that make sense to us, but most of them are not based on hard evidence or LE sources.
We only have the R's word that KK and PF were involved romantically. At best, they had a long-distance relationship, and both had work/kids to occupy their time. The Rs also said that they owned horses together. Anything the Rs said is third-hand information, but it's all we have.
We also have absolutely zero evidence that KB was planning to move away and take K away from PF and his family. CB said that they were 'loving' and planning to get married, FWIW.
KB's phone didn't go to ID by itself, but we don't have the facts to support when and how it got there.
And to take it a step further, we don't have confirmation from LE that KK is involved! Officially, we only have "search warrants served in ID".
Also we officially know that PF is alleged to have solicited at least one person to murder KB. We don't officially know if one person was allegedly solicited 3 times, or if there were two or even three people allegedly solicited.
I keep going back to the basics, but when the whole truth comes out, we may all be as surprised as we were when LE brought the soliciting charges. MOO
 
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